What nationality was Alexander?

[privatehudson]

When discussing a topic on another forum about greatest generals I happened to remark on Alexander and said he was Greek. This immediately brought a stinging reply from a member who's from the former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia (at least I think that's what it's called) who called me ignorant and accused me of peddling typcial western european bias about Alexander's origins...

This intruiged me somewhat, for whilst I'm far from being familiar with the period or man himself, I did know that there was some debate on his origins, but I had always considered him Greek. I based that assumption on the fact that he paid homage to Greek Heroes, respected Greek gods and so on. Loosely speaking I was told by a friend that the area he came from had only been "hellenised" (If that's the right term) a short time before his father, but given what he thought of himself I attributed him to being Greek. I also was told from a friend in the Macedonian region of modern day Greece that the Athenians often looked down their noses at him saying that there were more foreigners than Greeks in the army he left Greece with (A figure that only works if you consider Macedonians to be non-greek). Though I suspect something of a bitterness there as he tends to be anti-Athenian anyway

Therefore I thought I would be brave and create my first thread about this subject and allow those here with much more knowledge of the period to discuss the topic. I would especially like to hear arguments for both sides if possible so that I can have a think about the issue. If I hear more from the person on the other forum about why Alexander was not Greek I will try and post it.

Thanks in advance anyway

 

[polymath]

Well, his father was known as Philip of Macedon. I believe Alexander was also Macedonian.

 

[Adler17]

Alexander was a Macedon indeed. But the Macedons considered themselves as Greek, while most Greeks thought they were barbars, meaning non Greek. Only very late they were also accepted as Greek but for a long time the Greeks kept their basic attitude to think they were barbars.
When Macedonia became independent there was and is a trouble because of the name. The Greek have their own province of Macedonia and therefore they had a big quarrel in e´which they forced the former Yugoslavain republic of Macedonia to add this to their state name. So officially Macedonia is now the Former Yougoslavian republic of Macedonia, short FYRM IIRC.
As normal non Greek or Macedon I can not understand this quarrel. Germany has for example the South of the area which was once Geldern. Since also the capital Geldern is German, but North Geldern belongs to Holland, we could also say the Dutch to rename their province Gelderland. But no one would come to that idea here!

Adler

 

[Stefan Haertel]

Alexander was a Macedonian, but the ancient Macedonians are not necessarily identical with modern-day Macedonians.

 

[Pangur Bán]

People from the FYR of Macedonia speak basically a dialect of Bulgarian (discounting the large Albanian population); well, Alexandros (Greek name) was certainly no southern Slav. By the 4th century BC, Macedonia was thoroughly Hellenized...certainly in terms of its ruling classes, although they had a distinctive political and historical tradition and we must imagine that they spoke a dialect of Greek very distinctive from their southern neighbours...but still Greek.

 

[privatehudson]

One might almost say an equivalent of the English-Scotish relationship huh Calagus?

Still it does intruige me, what he said on the topic was:

Alexander being Greek is a general wrong assumption that some people have, influenced by many centuries of Western European interpretation of history. At the very least, his origin is debatable (although most competent scientists of the problem would agree that he was Ancient Macedonian), so don't jump to conclusions like that. You don't wanna enter into such discussion since there are many things you don't know and there are new tendencies in the interpretation of ancient Balkan history that shed a new light on things. Even more, it's not just a matter of history, but also anthropology, demographics, ethnology, geography, linguistic science etc.

 

[mrtn]

Well, IIRC (they came in the migrations in the 5th century, surely?) the slavs hadn't even begun their move into the Balkans, so it's just a "coincidence" that the Macedonians of today and the ancient macedonians bear the same name. It's like if the Tunisians decided to call themselves Carthaginians...

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

I think the Slavs migrated in the seventh Century.

The modern idea of nations did not exist before the French Revolution (IIRC). So IMO the question defeats itself.

 

[privatehudson]

If not nationality then ethnicity or whatever you wish to call it, there's no need to be pedantic about it

 

[yaroslav]

Macedonian of course, but IMHO as it has been pointed in the thread, the former macedonian people was a semi-barbarian country (from Greek PoV) influenced by Greek culture.

Today Macedonia is slav

 

[Xen]

My Point of veiw


A)Macedonians were allowed in the olympic games
B)th eonly exceptiuon to non greeks not being allowed in those games was a gruding submission to the Roman atheletes.

considering this- and and how ofcourse the southern greeks, bitter at essentiall being conqoured were going to try to put themselves on the high chair anyway they could, considerign that the macedonians considered themselves greek, considering the fact that even before Phillip, the macedonians already followed a good deal fo greek culturew, and mingled in greek politics (took Spartas side in the peloponesian war), and considering the fact that modern day macedonia is not ancient macedonia- and ancient macedonia is in greece, and considering he fact that Alexander did all that he did in te name of greece and its culture, Alexander, for all intensive purposes, is greek.

 

[North King]

He was probably closest to Greek, since the people who became Greeks migrated all over that area. To your challenger, thouhg, you can safely say he was not even close to Modern Macedonians, because, as already stated, Macedonians today are Slavic; they come from Eastern Europe. The Dorians, Ionians, and likely Ancient Macedonians came from invaders from Central Europe.

 

[Kafka2]

There's a certain Civ forum administrator who's rather touchy about the definition of "Macedonian".

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

The Greeks today are also largely Slavic due to massive migrations in the seventh, eighth, evelenth, twelvth, thirteenth, fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. The only Greeks wiithout large amounts of Slavic (or other) blood are those which live on the Aegean Islands.

Just another random fact

 

[Warman17]

we could also say the Dutch to rename their province Gelderland. But no one would come to that idea here!

Adler

I know i'm going WAY off topic here, but it struck me that the town I live in is called Guilderland.

Oh and to stay on topic, I consider Alexander to be greek, or do I? >_> <_<

 

[NeoDemocrat]

He was Greek, enough said. Wasn't that time period called the Hellenic Period and Alexander's empire the Hellinist Empire? And Hellenic refers distinctly to Greece, therefore stating he and his empire was indeed Greek.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

The simplest distinction of it:
Hellenic: Greek
Hellenistic: Macedonian successor

His empire was called the 'Macedonian Empire' or the 'Alexandrian Empire', never 'Greek Empire', 'Hellenic Empire' or 'Hellenistic Empire'.

 

[Alone]

Ialways thought that he was a Greek, but I must admit that you'rr now confused me guys. But for sure was not Sloven's origin so by that fact can be conected to present FYR Macedonia.
@calgacus You obviosly know much more than everyone pointed on present Macedonian origin which they denie for apsolutly not known reason to me (Your notice about the language they speak. Hope you understand my "Target") But they are also much influenced by Serbs and partly by Greeks/south/.
@privatehudson Don't worry if someone "attack" you over that your statment, people in that area are kind of touchy when things like that are "put on table" for discution. Specialy hot blooded southern Balkanians. And I think you're right on this issue, if thats mean anything to you.

 

[NeoDemocrat]

The simplest distinction of it:
Hellenic: Greek
Hellenistic: Macedonian successor

His empire was called the 'Macedonian Empire' or the 'Alexandrian Empire', never 'Greek Empire', 'Hellenic Empire' or 'Hellenistic Empire'.

I still say it was; wasn't the era called the "Hellenistic period" and it encompassed his conquest of the world? I know I may be wrong so please feel free to correct me; I'm up to learning something new

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

IIRC The Hellenistic period began in 323BC when Alexander the Great died. Regardless, the Hellenistic period is characterised by the wars of the Diodochs (the Seleucids, Ptolemids, Cassandrids, Antigonids, Lysimachids, Bactrians, Atropatinids, etc.); Carthage; the emergence of Rome, Kushan and Parthia; and the last stand of the ancient Greeks (the Achaean and Aetolian Leagues struggle to remain free of Rome and the Diodochs, and Mithridates VI the Great's near-successful conquest of the eastern Mediterranean).