What size should a TSL Giant Earth Map for Civ6 have?

[historix69]

The new Civ6 video presentation by Ed Beach from E3 looks fine.
(see for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J88bmqKrbu0 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUL1Y95To2A )

The change in scale from 1-tile-cities to cities with multiple tiles is visible. Cities with up to 12 different districts + additional tile improvements like farms, lumbermills, mines and quarries, etc. need a lot more of the available 36 tiles than in Civ5. In the video the cities are placed at 6-7 tiles distance to avoid overlap in contrast to the often seen 3-6 tiles distance in Civ5 ...

Spoiler :

typical Civ5 city spacing

According to Ed Beach, Civ6 will start with 18 different Civs with focus on TSL (true starting locations) to more equally cover the globe. This gives hope that a huge or giant TSL Earth Map may be included in Civ6 from the start.

Many Civ4 and Civ5 players are used to play on the Giant Earth Map by Genghis Kai and Gedemon (in Civ5 with up to all 43 official civs). Map size in Civ4/5 was limited due to hardcoded restrictions. The Civ5 Giant Earth Map has a size of 180x94 tiles :

Spoiler :

As can be seen in the screenshot, it is difficult to preserve the true relations/outline of continents/islands and provide enough tiles for settlements of all civs in game. Europe usually is overcrowded with most civs starting as direct neighbours (capital near capital). The british isles for example usually only have enough place for 3 full cities : London, Edingburgh and Dublin. Italy, Japan and Mesoamerica are similar small.

With respect to the new district system the interesting question now is :
How huge must be a TSL Earth Map for Civ6 to allow England, Japan and other civs sufficient living space for 3-4 well developed cities (before they expand and conquer)?

I think that an upscaling from 180x94 to 360x180 would be nice if the movement speed/range for air units and naval units in general and for land units when using railroad is properly adjusted for modern eras (based on tech).

 

[Krajzen]

I am wondering about this too, not to mention how will island-based cities work now as you (obviously) cannot place districts on open sea tiles.

Look at the Indonesia and Japan on this map and try to imagine as developed cities as seen in civ6 so far.

In general I really like cities occupying more space in civ6 as I have always thought civ5 was far too overcrowded regarding cities/units, I hated 2-tile-minimum-distance old requirements and mods, 3-tile-distance cities were bad, 4-tile-distance I barely tolerated. I'd enjoy cities as sparsely placed as in videos, with 5-6 distance between them (minimum 4 tiles?) but that raises questions regarding game speed, unit movement, map generation...

I hope civ6 will allow on bigger maps than civ5 - especially as I think new fog of war will be much less painful to process for PC than old 3d mode (on my PC it stuttered badly so on bigger maps I spent at least latter half of game in strategic mode anyway).

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The new Civ6 video presentation by Ed Beach from E3 looks fine.
(see for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J88bmqKrbu0 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUL1Y95To2A )

The change in scale from 1-tile-cities to cities with multiple tiles is visible. Cities with up to 12 different districts + additional tile improvements like farms, lumbermills, mines and quarries, etc. need a lot more of the available 36 tiles than in Civ5. In the video the cities are placed at 6-7 tiles distance to avoid overlap in contrast to the often seen 3-6 tiles distance in Civ5 ...

Spoiler :

typical Civ5 city spacing

According to Ed Beach, Civ6 will start with 18 different Civs with focus on TSL (true starting locations) to more equally cover the globe. This gives hope that a huge or giant TSL Earth Map may be included in Civ6 from the start.

Many Civ4 and Civ5 players are used to play on the Giant Earth Map by Genghis Kai and Gedemon (in Civ5 with up to all 43 official civs). Map size in Civ4/5 was limited due to hardcoded restrictions. The Civ5 Giant Earth Map has a size of 180x94 tiles :

Spoiler :

As can be seen in the screenshot, it is difficult to preserve the true relations/outline of continents/islands and provide enough tiles for settlements of all civs in game. Europe usually is overcrowded with most civs starting as direct neighbours (capital near capital). The british isles for example usually only have enough place for 3 full cities : London, Edingburgh and Dublin. Italy, Japan and Mesoamerica are similar small.

With respect to the new district system the interesting question now is :
How huge must be a TSL Earth Map for Civ6 to allow England, Japan and other civs sufficient living space for 3-4 well developed cities (before they expand and conquer)?

I think that an upscaling from 180x94 to 360x180 would be nice if the movement speed/range for air units and naval units in general and for land units when using railroad is properly adjusted for modern eras (based on tech).

I don't think England or Japan should have 3-4 well developed cities, instead they should have 1-2 well developed cities before they get out and conquer.

Essentially, they are making the cities into regions... ie instead of the "city of London" think of the "region of England"... especially with TSL

Basically the Western European nations would all be 1-3 cities max... most of the historical wars wouldn't trade cities, but just pillage some districts (except the big ones like WW2, Napoleon, etc. where a city was actually lost by one side... ie a Nation was basically conquered)

 

[Eklabiaan]

I am wondering about this too, not to mention how will island-based cities work now as you (obviously) cannot place districts on open sea tiles.

I am sure they have a solution up their sleeve .
A few like,

• having bigger maps --> bigger islands.
• devise some water based variants of regular districts, e.g. a religious district could also be at sea. After al, Neptunus is a sea god, and he wants his share of shines and temples.
• The district is a coastal tile but the buildings are a bit spilling over in the bordering land tile..
• or whatever Firaxis comes up with.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I am wondering about this too, not to mention how will island-based cities work now as you (obviously) cannot place districts on open sea tiles.).

harbors are on water tiles. (And if it is more than a 1 tile island, allthe land tiles get districts+sea tiles provide the food.

 

[SMcM]

I am wondering about this too, not to mention how will island-based cities work now as you (obviously) cannot place districts on open sea tiles.

Look at the Indonesia and Japan on this map and try to imagine as developed cities as seen in civ6 so far.

In general I really like cities occupying more space in civ6 as I have always thought civ5 was far too overcrowded regarding cities/units, I hated 2-tile-minimum-distance old requirements and mods, 3-tile-distance cities were bad, 4-tile-distance I barely tolerated. I'd enjoy cities as sparsely placed as in videos, with 5-6 distance between them (minimum 4 tiles?) but that raises questions regarding game speed, unit movement, map generation...

I hope civ6 will allow on bigger maps than civ5 - especially as I think new fog of war will be much less painful to process for PC than old 3d mode (on my PC it stuttered badly so on bigger maps I spent at least latter half of game in strategic mode anyway).

I've been thinking that too. Perhaps the unique building for one civ could be being able to build homes on sea tiles (à la rising tide); this would be a great idea for a Bruneian empire civ ('Venice of the east'). https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=501686273&searchtext=Brunei

 

[Plus Ultra]

I honestly don't think the Civ formula adapts that well to TSL gameplay, unless you greatly distort the map or abandon the idea of balanced starting locations.

Besides, I can't imagine how much it takes for a turn to load with a 43 Civ Giant map like that one. You guys must be very, very patient.

I know 43 AIs playing against each other is a big thing now, but balancing the game, or choosing the vanilla Civs, to improve that sort of gameplay rather that SP vs AI 4x balanced play, which is what Civ is supposed to be all about, seems wierd to me.

 

[historix69]

I can't imagine how much it takes for a turn to load with a 43 Civ Giant map like that one

In Civ5 AI movement is not the problem for AI turn length, it is the diplomacy when 42 AIs are denouncing each other or when each AI tells you how good or bad your actions are or when they want to trade with you.

Turn length for human player mostly depends on number of cities and units to manage. The fun in playing on a TSL Giant Earth Map is that you can build/name cities according to historic/real cities based on real geography ... If you play a random map it is more like fantasy geography but no real geography.

 

[Icaria909]

Personally I hope islands stay small. Traditionally, islands served as bases of trade or places to re-service ships; they were not large metropolises on the scale of Mexico City, New York City, or London. Yet, island cities in CIV and CiV could be incredibly large due to fish resources and water tiles. This new district system will force players to be more strategic in their city placement and consciously choose why they want to found certain cities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Personally I hope islands stay small. Traditionally, islands served as bases of trade or places to re-service ships; they were not large metropolises on the scale of Mexico City, New York City, or London. Yet, island cities in CIV and CiV could be incredibly large due to fish resources and water tiles. This new district system will force players to be more strategic in their city placement and consciously choose why they want to found certain cities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On a TSL map London is an island city (admittedly not a 1-tile island, but still an island)

 

[historix69]

Personally I hope islands stay small. Traditionally, islands served as bases of trade or places to re-service ships; they were not large metropolises on the scale of Mexico City, New York City, or London. Yet, island cities in CIV and CiV could be incredibly large due to fish resources and water tiles. This new district system will force players to be more strategic in their city placement and consciously choose why they want to found certain cities.

I hope that they do not punish the player for setting up small outposts/military bases ... if you play on a realistic Earth, there is 70% water ... so island outposts are natural for a superpower like the U.S. ... small countries like switzerland will probably not need them.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[MadDjinn]

the TSL map should be 1k x 512!

that should be sufficient to get a detailed enough map.

 

[stealth_nsk]

the TSL map should be 1k x 512!

that should be sufficient to get a detailed enough map.

Yes, and not big enough so players should be able to finish a game by Civ7 release.

 

[Birdjaguar]

the TSL map should be 1k x 512!

that should be sufficient to get a detailed enough map.

I would agree and probably need a new computer.

 

[ColtSeavers]

The new Civ6 video presentation by Ed Beach from E3 looks fine.
(see for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J88bmqKrbu0 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUL1Y95To2A )

The change in scale from 1-tile-cities to cities with multiple tiles is visible. Cities with up to 12 different districts + additional tile improvements like farms, lumbermills, mines and quarries, etc. need a lot more of the available 36 tiles than in Civ5. In the video the cities are placed at 6-7 tiles distance to avoid overlap in contrast to the often seen 3-6 tiles distance in Civ5 ...

Spoiler :

typical Civ5 city spacing

According to Ed Beach, Civ6 will start with 18 different Civs with focus on TSL (true starting locations) to more equally cover the globe. This gives hope that a huge or giant TSL Earth Map may be included in Civ6 from the start.

Many Civ4 and Civ5 players are used to play on the Giant Earth Map by Genghis Kai and Gedemon (in Civ5 with up to all 43 official civs). Map size in Civ4/5 was limited due to hardcoded restrictions. The Civ5 Giant Earth Map has a size of 180x94 tiles :

Spoiler :

As can be seen in the screenshot, it is difficult to preserve the true relations/outline of continents/islands and provide enough tiles for settlements of all civs in game. Europe usually is overcrowded with most civs starting as direct neighbours (capital near capital). The british isles for example usually only have enough place for 3 full cities : London, Edingburgh and Dublin. Italy, Japan and Mesoamerica are similar small.

With respect to the new district system the interesting question now is :
How huge must be a TSL Earth Map for Civ6 to allow England, Japan and other civs sufficient living space for 3-4 well developed cities (before they expand and conquer)?

I think that an upscaling from 180x94 to 360x180 would be nice if the movement speed/range for air units and naval units in general and for land units when using railroad is properly adjusted for modern eras (based on tech).

TSL is really important for me, never got that, why they stopped making the effort to come up with a decent world map after Civ 3!?
I hope they provide different options, small maps for low budget PCs or guys who just don't spend too much time; large maps for hard core players and a medium sized map for me EUROPE and other continents would be appreciated as well