What to do with Iran...

[Ecofarm]

Spoiler :

GOVERNMENT STRUCTURE OF IRAN

Take notice of the key at the bottom! It's not exactly a liberal democracy, but there is more 'choice' in Iran than folks like you beleive...

Take notice of the box at the bottom! The electorate "elects" 86 people who advise the "Supreme Leader". The Supreme Leader does not change, so the elections of his advisors matters none. Even if the elections were legitimate, The Supreme Leader decides what goes. Period. Elect whoever you want to advise him, he is bound by NOTHING (except god, who has personally appointed him to dictatorship).

There are officials beyond the reach of the people. It's not a democracy at all. It's religious enslavement.

 

[Che Guava]

Take notice of the box at the bottom! The electorate "elects" 86 people who advise the "Supreme Leader". The Supreme Leader does not change, so the elections of his advisors matters none. Even if the elections were legitimate, The Supreme Leader decides what goes. Period. Elect whoever you want to advise him, he is bound by NOTHING.

The electorate also elects the president, and the parliament, while the supreme leader is chosen by elected officials. I'm not saying its a democracy, but its not a dictatorship either. How many positions in teh US government are simply appointed by elected officials anyhow? THere are degrees of democracy, all I'm saying is that Iran is certainly not at the bottom.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Sounds more democratic than say... Chile under Pinochet.

 

[Perfection]

Nuke the bastards.

 

[Ecofarm]

List of Victims of the Mullahs' Regime Terrorist Activity Abroad

Spoiler :

Arranged chronologically.
Date format: dd/mm/yy.


First Name Last Name Date City Country Description

Reza Mazlouman 28.05.96 Paris France Assasinated. Former Minister under the Shah and Professor.
Osman Rahimi 18.03.96 Iraq Iraqi Kurdestan
Taher Azizi 18.03.96 Iraq Iraqi Kurdestan
Hassan Ebrahimzadeh 18.03.96 Iraq Iraqi Kurdestan
Faramarz Keshavarz 18.03.96 Iraq Iraqi Kurdestan
Taher Rouhani 13.03.96 Soleymaniya Iraq
Hamed Reza Rahmani 07.03.96 Baghdad Iraq
Mowlavi Mollahzadeh 04.03.96 Pakistan
Abdul-Nasser Jamshid-Zehi 04.03.96 Pakistan
Abdul-Ali Muradi 20.02.96 Istanbul Turkey Assasinated. Supporter of the People's Mujahedin Organization of Iran.
Zahra Rajabi 20.02.96 Istanbul Turkey Member of the National Council of Resistance. Assasinated in Turkey while on a mission to aid Iranian Refugees
Three Mojahedin Members 10.07.95 Baghdad Iraq Three members of the Iranian opposition group Mujahideen Khalq were shot dead in Baghdad on Monday and Iraq summoned Iran's Charge D'Affaires to protest over the second incident in two days.... (Reuters, July 10, 1995)
Effat Haddad,Fereshteh Esfandiari 19.05.95 Baghdad Iraq Mrs. Haddad was a mother of four. "An Iranian dissident group, the People's Mojahedin, Friday accused Iran of sponsoring the assassination of two women in its organization in Iraq, sources with the dissidents said.... The slain women - Effat Haddad, 32 an
Majid-Reza Ibrahimi and another Mojahedin member 06.10.93 Baghdad Iraq Ibrahimi was killed and his companion wounded when the Khomeini regime's terrorists opened fire on them while they were shopping at a store in Baghdad's As-Sha'ab district.
Behran Azadfer 28.08.93 Ankara Turkey Fatally shot by two Farsi-speaking gunmen at his house in Ankara. A third person stood guard in the garden.
Mohammad Hassan Arbab 06.06.93 Karachi Pakistan member of the Mojahedin Jun. 6, 1993, Assassinated around noon in front of his residence in Karachi by 4 terrorists dispatched by the Khomeini regime.
Mohammad Hossein Naghdi 16.03.93 Rome Italy Representative of the National Council of Resistance of Iran in Italy. Shot dead by two terrorist astride a motorcycle in broad daylight in Rome as he went by car from his home to his office.
Mohammad Amin Mirlashari 09.03.93 Pakistan A chief of the Mirlashar tribe in Iranian Baluchistan. Shot and wounded in the street.
Delaviz Narou'i and Heybatollah Narou'I 09.03.93 Pakistan Chiefs of the Narou'i tribe in Iranian Baluchistan. Shot to death in the street.
Mojahedin and National Liberation Army c 29.01.93 Baghdad Iraq Terrorists planted a bomb in a city bus in Baghdad which they knew to be used by the Mojahedin and NLA. No one was injured in the blast.
Saeed Shakeri 24.01.93 Sweden Mojahedin supporter. Attacked in the city library, resulting in a broken nose and fractured skull. His serious head injuries and the threat of infection necessitated surgery.
Mehdi Baba'I 22.01.93 Oslo Norway Mojahedin supporter. Two terrorists from the regime's embassy in Oslo brutally assaulted him. They fled when police arrived. Baba'i required hospitalization.
Mehdi Ha'eri 18.01.93 Germany Cleric opposed to the regime. Terrorists posing as acquaintances made an appointment to see him by phone. Aware his life was in danger, police guarding his residence arrest 1 man and discover a knife and a silencer-equipped gun in the car.
Gholam-Hossein Kazemi 12.01.93 Iraq member of the Mojahedin and combatant in the National Liberation Army of Iran. Assassinated while driving between NLA bases. The other occupants of the car were wounded.
Abbas Golizadeh 26.12.92 Istanbul Turkey Former bodyguard to the Shah. Kidnapped from his home in a suburb of Istanbul. Fate unknown.
Mohammad Sadeq Sharafkandi 17.09.92 Germany leader of the Kurdistan Democratic Party of Iran, three other Kurds (Homayoun Ardalan, Fattah Abdolahi, and Nuri Dehkordi) and a fifth unidentified individual. Sharafkandi and the 3 Kurds were shot dead when terrorists sprayed them with machinegun fire in
Mojahedin Office in Baghdad 15.09.92 Baghdad Iraq Around midnight, 4 terrorists dispatched by the regime attempted to enter one of the Mojahedin's offices. Confronted by a security guard, one escaped, two were arrested, and the fourth, who attempted to open fire, was shot and killed.
Feridoun Farokhzad 09.08.92 Germany Entertainer. Stabbed and beheaded with a knife.
Homayoun Maraghe'I 06.08.92 Germany head of the overseas office of the People's Party. Wounded with a knife.
Gholam Ghahremani 03.08.92 Dubai supporter of Mojahedin seeking political asylum. Kidnapped from his residence and transferred to Evin Prison in Tehran.
Members of the Kurdistan Democratic Part 23.06.92 Iraq Terrorist infiltrators poison the food at the KDP's HQ. 7 persons hospitalized in critical condition, 3 of whom subsequently died Hadi Mahmoudi (7/7/92), Ali Nanoureh (7/18/92), and Fakhroddin Moradi (7/12/92).
Mojahedin supporters 05.06.92 Turkey Car bomb planted in a car used by Mojahedin supporters defused before it went off. Mojahedin supporters. Car bomb planted in a car used by Mojahedin supporters in Istanbul destroys the vehicle.
Ali-Akbar Ghorbani 04.06.92 Istanbul Turkey Mojahedin member. Kidnapped by Tehran's terrorists in front of his home in Istanbul. Terrorists arrested admitted having been trained in Iran, and having turned Ghorbani over to Iranian agents, who tortured and then murdered him. They led police to a shal
Kamran Mansour Moqadam 03.06.92 Iraq member of the Communist Union. Murdered by machinegun fire.
Shahpour Firouzi 31.05.92 Iraq member of the Kurdistan Democratic Party - Revolutionary Leadership. Assassinated by machinegun.
Seifollah Seimanpour 01.05.92 Iraq Refugee. Killed by machinegun fire.
Kamal Reza'I 11.04.92 Netherlands Member of Mojahedin. Terrorists set an ambush for him near his residence, but he escaped the trap.
Nareh Rafi'zadeh 26.03.92 New Jersey U.S.A. wife and sister-in-law of former intelligence agents under the Shah. Assassinated as she left her car at her New Jersey residence.
Abolhassan Banisadr 06.12.91 Versailles France Khomeini's first president. The would-be assassins, who had entered his home in Versailles, fled when French security agents opened fire.
Members of the Kurdistan Democratic Part 29.10.91 Iraq A bomb-laden mini-bus was detonated in the path of a bus carrying the KDP members and their families. 3 persons were killed and a number, including small children, wounded.
Saeed Yazdanpanah 19.09.91 Iraq member of the Revolutionary Union of the Kurdish People, and Sirous Katibeh, his secretary. Terrorist infiltrators stabbed both to death at Yazdanpanah's residence.
Shahpour Bakhtiar 06.08.91 Paris France The Shah's last Prime Minister, and Soroush Katebeh, his personal secretary. Bakhtiar's throat was slit and his aide stabbed to death at Bakhtiar's home near Paris.
Abdolrahman Boroumand 18.04.91 Paris France Aide to Bakhtiar. Stabbed to death in the street in Paris.
Ahad Aqa 01.01.91 Iraq Member of Kurdistan Democratic Party. Assassinated in the street.
Khaled Hosseinpour 01.01.91 Iraq Member of Khebat, Assassinated.
Komeleh H.Q 01.01.91 Iraq A Peshmarg was killed when a bomb planted by terrorists went off at the HQ.
Iranian refugees supporting the Mojahedi 31.10.90 Rome Italy A group of refugees was attacked in the street by the regime's agents, three of whom, carrying diplomatic passports, were arrested. Many supporters were hospitalized with serious injuries.
Sirous Elahi 23.10.90 Paris France Member of Derafsh Kaviani. Shot and killed at his residence in Paris.
Gholam Reza Nakha'I 01.10.90 Turkey Iranian political refugee. Killed in his hotel room with a severe blow to the head.
Amir Qazi 06.09.90 Sweden member of Kurdistan Democratic Party of Iran. His wife, Effat Qazi, was killed when she opened a letter bomb addressed to her husband.
Ali Kashefpour 15.07.90 Turkey member of the Kurdistan Democratic Party of Iran -Revolutionary Leadership. Terrorists kidnapped him from his home in a refugee quarter. His tortured body was later found in a roadside ditch.
Kamal Reza'I 28.05.90 Germany Mojahedin spokesman. Two of the regime's agents arrested in an unsuccessful assassination attempt.
Prof. Kazem Rajavi 24.04.90 Geneva Switzerland Representative of the National Council of Resistance of Iran, elder brother of Massoud Rajavi, Leader of the Iranian Resistance. Shot to death in his car in Coppet, near Geneva. Swiss police confirmed at least 13 terrorists with Iranian service passports
Hossein Mir-Abedini 14.03.90 Istanbul Turkey Mojahedin member. Shot and critically wounded en route by car to Istanbul airport.
Hadj Balouch Khan 16.02.90 Taftan Pakistan Royalist.Assassinated by a Guards Corps commando squad in Taftan.
Hossein Keshavarz, Mojahedin sympathizer 14.09.89 Karachi Pakistan A hail of machinegun fire gravely wounded him in Karachi, leaving him paralyzed in both legs.
Sadiq Kamangar 04.09.89 Iraq member of Komeleh. Infiltrators assassinated him at his H.Q.
Bahman Javadi and Youssef Rashidzadeh 26.08.89 Cyprus members of Komeleh, Javadi was shot and killed in the street. Rashidzadeh was wounded.
Abdol Rahman Qassemlou 13.07.89 Vienna Austria Leader of the Kurdistan Democratic Party of Iran, Abdullah Qaderi-Azar, Fadel Mala, and Mahmoud Rassoul, his aides. Shot dead in Vienna while meeting secretly with representatives of Rafsanjani. A senior Guards Corps commander oversaw the murders. Two Ira
Ata'ollah Bayahmadi 04.06.89 Dubai ex-military intelligence colonel under the Shah. Assassinated in his hotel room.
Gathering of Mojahedin sympathizers 11.02.89 Germany A bomb exploded in front of the door to the meeting hall. 3 persons wounded.
Gathering of Mojahedin sympathizers 01.02.89 Rome Italy Terrorists armed with knives and clubs attacked the meeting in Rome. 3 persons were wounded.
Iranian refugees 03.12.88 Karachi Pakistan Iranian refugees waiting outside the UNHCR office in Karachi attacked. One person killed, 5 wounded.
Javad Ha'eri 01.12.87 Istanbul Turkey Dissident . Stabbed to death by two men at this home in Istanbul.
Behrouz Bagheri, son of Bahman Bagheri 28.11.87 Paris France former Air Force commander, bomb planted in his Paris store.
Iranian refugees 31.10.87 Quetta Pakistan Bomb planted in a hotel in Quetta. Police arrested Guards Corps members. One Iranian killed, another wounded.
Abolhassan Mojtahedzadeh and Mostafa Abrari of the 11.10.87 Istanbul Turkey Kidnapped in Istanbul by Iranian embassy personnel. Abrari escaped his captors. The police discovered Mojtahedzadeh in the trunk of an Iranian embassy car with diplomatic plates near the Iran-Turkey border.
Ali and Noureddin Nabavi Tavakoli 03.10.87 London United Kingdom father and son, royalists, Shot in the back of the head in the living room of their London home.
Ahmad Talebi 10.09.87 Geneva Switzerland Fighter pilot, refugee. Assassinated on the street in Geneva by two armed men.
Mohammad Hassan Mansouri 25.07.87 Istanbul Turkey Anti-Khomeini dissident, and another person, Assassinated by two men at his home in Istanbul.
Alireza Hassanpour Sharifzadeh, Faramarz Aqa'i and other Mo 08.07.87 Karachi Pakistan 13 homes in Karachi and Quetta attacked with RPG rockets and submachine guns. Sharifzadeh and Aqa'i were killed and 33 persons wounded. 9 men identified by police as Guards Corps members were arrested at the Iran-Pakistan border.
Amir-Hossein Amir-Parviz 08.07.87 United Kingdom Affiliate of Shah's last Prime Minister,Bakhtiar, Severely injured in a car bombÆ
Mojahedin supporters 12.06.87 Pakistan 3 persons injured in terrorist attack on their center.
Mojahedin supporters 31.05.87 Pakistan Terrorists threw acid on students manning a literature stand, seriously wounding 2 people.
Hamidreza Chitgar (Hamid Bahmani) 19.05.87 Vienna Austria First Secretary of the Workers Party. Assassinated in a house in Vienna. His body was discovered by police on Jul. 12, 1987.
Ali Akbar Mohammadi 16.01.87 Germany Former pilot for Rafsanjani. Assassinated in the street by two men.
Vali Mohammad and, former Marine officer 12.11.86 Pakistan Shot five times and killed.
Ahmadhamed Monfared (Hamid Farzaneh) 24.10.86 Turkey ex-Army colonel Assassinated by 2 men armed with silencer-equipped pistols.
Reza Fazeli 01.07.86 United Kingdom an anti-Khomeini mov
Abdolreza Salimi, Ali-Akbar Khalvati, Mojahedin su 24.01.86 Dubai Kidnapped and tortured in a safe house to extract information on other Mojahedin sympathizers.
Ahmad Madani 01.01.86 Paris France A former Defense Minister and governor under the Shah, Lapsed into a coma for 48 hrs. after eating poisoned candies in Paris brought from Iran. The gift-bearer meanwhile disappeared.
Aziz Moradi 23.12.85 Istanbul Turkey ex-colonel in the Shah's Army Assassinated in Istanbul.
Mir Monavat 28.09.85 Karachi Pakistan Majlis deputy from Baluchistan under the Shah Murdered at his home in Karachi by 3 armed men.
Behrouz Shahvardilou 06.01.85 Istanbul Turkey Police colonel under the Shah Assassinated in the Koucheh Kyabi district of Istanbul.
Gholam-Ali Oveissi 07.02.84 Paris France former commander of the Shah's Army, and his brother,an ex-general, Assassinated in the street in Paris.
Iranian refugee 01.02.84 Paris France Attacked by armed terrorists in the UNESCO Bldg. in Paris.
Anti-Khomeini students 01.09.83 Pakistan One student was murdered in an attack by the regime's agents.
Esfandiar Rahimi Taqanaki 08.02.83 Manilla Philippines Mojahedin supporter Stabbed to death with a knife and machete in Manilla.
Mojahedin supporters 06.12.82 Paris France On successive days, Khomeini's terrorists, armed with knives, chains and guns, attacked students distributing Mojahedin publications. A number were hospitalized for injuries.
Abdol-Amir Rahdar and other Mojahedin supporters 10.09.82 India Terrorists armed with knives and machetes attacked a demonstration protesting human rights abuses in Iran. Amir Rahdar was murdered, and 20 others seriously wounded.
Ahmad Zolanvar and other Mojahedin supporters 29.08.82 Karachi Pakistan Two terrorists astride motorcycles attacked him and his companions in Karachi, causing wounds resulting in brain hemorrhaging. He was subsequently transferred to Denmark for emergency surgery, where he died on Sep. 5, 1982.
Mojahedin supporters 20.06.82 Dallas U.S.A A gathering of Resistance supporters in Dallas, Texas, was attacked by a gang armed with knives, clubs, rocks and bottles.One was hospitalized.
Shahram Mirami, and other anti-Khomeini students 08.06.82 India 100 terrorists armed with clubs, knives and machetes attacked the Aligarh dormitory, where a group of Iranian students were holding a hunger strike to protest executions in Iran. Shahram Mirami was murdered and 9 other students seriously wounded.
Student supporter of the Mojahedin 08.06.82 India Terrorists seriously wounded him in a brutal assault.
Anti-Khomeini demonstration by Mojahedin 06.06.82 Spain Woman Mojahedin supporter stabbed in the back of the neck.
University students supporting the Mojah 24.04.82 Germany 150 terrorists armed with clubs, knives, chains, brass knuckles and tear gas attacked a student dormitory in Mainz. A young German woman was killed and 28 Iranian students severely wounded.
3 Mojahedin supporters 24.04.82 Sweden Seriously wounded in an attack by terrorists in the street.
Anti-Khomeini Iranian student 15.04.82 Sweden Attacked by Khomeini's terrorists at a bus stop. The following day, he was again attacked in retaliation for speaking to the press about the incident.
Student supporters of the Mojahedin 27.03.82 Sweden Terrorists armed with chains severely wounded several students, who required hospitalization.
Meeting sponsored by Mojahedin supporter 13.03.82 Oklahoma U.S.A. Students attacked and severely wounded at Oklahoma University.
Iranians attending funeral service for S 15.01.82 Manilla Philippine Terrorist lobbed a grenade into the gathering; 3 persons hospitalized with critical wounds.
Shahrokh Missaqi 14.01.82 Manilla Philippines Supporter of the People's Feda'ii Stabbed and killed in Manilla.
Iranian woman dissident 22.11.81 Stockholm Sweden Terrorists attacked her in Stockholm, resulting in her hospitalization for injuries.
Ali-Akbar Tabataba'i, 23.07.80 Washington DC U.S.A. Diplomat under the Shah. Shot and killed at his suburban Washington home.
Shahpour Bakhtiar 18.07.80 Paris France Shah's last Prime Minister A five-man hit squad tried to shoot its way into his Paris home. A policeman and a neighbor were killed, three policemen wounded.
Shahriar Shafiq 08.12.79 Paris France Former officer in the Shah's Army Assassinated in front of his Paris home.

Recent Report by Amnesty International

Spoiler :

Amnesty: Iran Has Executed Tens of Thousands in 16 Years, Associated Press, May 30
Iran has executed tens of thousands of suspected government opponents in the last 16 years and kept large numbers of political prisoners languishing in jail, Amnesty International said Wednesday.

Opposition activists have been targeted for attack over the past 18 months and even Iranian dissidents who fled abroad are not safe, the London-based rights group said in 17- page report.

Despite Iran's refusal to allow human rights investigators into the country, Tehran has not been able to hide its "appalling human rights record,"Amnesty said.

Over the past 15 years, scores of dissidents living outside Iran have been "assassinated in circumstances suggesting they may have been extrajudicially executed by Iranian government agents," it said.

The report cites cases of long-term political prisoners held without trial, and suspected executions of government opponents both inside and outside Iran by government agents...

Four leaders of religious minority groups _ three Christians and a Sunni Muslim _ were found dead recently in suspicious circumstances, believed killed by Iranian government agents, the report said...

http://www.iran-e-azad.org/english/hr.html


Are you SURE they are not as bad as Saddam? I'd say it's pretty damn close.

 

[Rambuchan]

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

This tells me that people, according to the Declaration, have the right to liberty and many other things that we all know quite well by now.

But it doesn't answer the question I asked you. The important part of which is --- the right to tell others. Where in the document does it stipulate that the USA must bring these rights about by force, with all its accompanying niceties and contradictions?

And surely a focus on bringing democracy and human rights to all countries, not just those sitting on loads of black gold, would lend more credibility to the case that your concerns are genuinely motivated by a respect for the values put forth in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, no?

Surely, with this admiration and commitment for the Declaration, you must be fighting tooth and nail for those imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay detention camp to be granted the rights spelled out in Articles 10 and 11? You must be vehemently opposing the measures which Gonzalez was so keen to see introduced that clearly clash with Article 12, right? What is it that you, personally, are doing, given that you're so committed that you'd call for an invasion of another country to bring about these rights to others? Or is it just the black gold and darky infidels that you have a problem with and not the foregoing of the Declaration of Human Rights after all?

Why do you think I speak for everyone? I speak for myself. My opinions are my own. Unfortunately, and I know this saddens you, I do not actually have totalitarian control over the US; however, if things go as planned, I could soon

I dunno, a full on invasion doesn't sound like a one man show.

 

[Che Guava]

List of Victims of the Mullahs' Regime Terrorist Activity Abroad

Spoiler :

Arranged chronologically.
Date format: dd/mm/yy.


First Name Last Name Date City Country Description
Reza Mazlouman 28.05.96 Paris France Assasinated. Former Minister under the Shah and Professor.
Osman Rahimi 18.03.96 Iraq Iraqi Kurdestan
Taher Azizi 18.03.96 Iraq Iraqi Kurdestan
Hassan Ebrahimzadeh 18.03.96 Iraq Iraqi Kurdestan
Faramarz Keshavarz 18.03.96 Iraq Iraqi Kurdestan
Taher Rouhani 13.03.96 Soleymaniya Iraq
Hamed Reza Rahmani 07.03.96 Baghdad Iraq
Mowlavi Mollahzadeh 04.03.96 Pakistan
Abdul-Nasser Jamshid-Zehi 04.03.96 Pakistan
Abdul-Ali Muradi 20.02.96 Istanbul Turkey Assasinated. Supporter of the People's Mujahedin Organization of Iran.
Zahra Rajabi 20.02.96 Istanbul Turkey Member of the National Council of Resistance. Assasinated in Turkey while on a mission to aid Iranian Refugees
Three Mojahedin Members 10.07.95 Baghdad Iraq Three members of the Iranian opposition group Mujahideen Khalq were shot dead in Baghdad on Monday and Iraq summoned Iran's Charge D'Affaires to protest over the second incident in two days.... (Reuters, July 10, 1995)
Effat Haddad,Fereshteh Esfandiari 19.05.95 Baghdad Iraq Mrs. Haddad was a mother of four. "An Iranian dissident group, the People's Mojahedin, Friday accused Iran of sponsoring the assassination of two women in its organization in Iraq, sources with the dissidents said.... The slain women - Effat Haddad, 32 an
Majid-Reza Ibrahimi and another Mojahedin member 06.10.93 Baghdad Iraq Ibrahimi was killed and his companion wounded when the Khomeini regime's terrorists opened fire on them while they were shopping at a store in Baghdad's As-Sha'ab district.
Behran Azadfer 28.08.93 Ankara Turkey Fatally shot by two Farsi-speaking gunmen at his house in Ankara. A third person stood guard in the garden.
Mohammad Hassan Arbab 06.06.93 Karachi Pakistan member of the Mojahedin Jun. 6, 1993, Assassinated around noon in front of his residence in Karachi by 4 terrorists dispatched by the Khomeini regime.
Mohammad Hossein Naghdi 16.03.93 Rome Italy Representative of the National Council of Resistance of Iran in Italy. Shot dead by two terrorist astride a motorcycle in broad daylight in Rome as he went by car from his home to his office.
Mohammad Amin Mirlashari 09.03.93 Pakistan A chief of the Mirlashar tribe in Iranian Baluchistan. Shot and wounded in the street.
Delaviz Narou'i and Heybatollah Narou'I 09.03.93 Pakistan Chiefs of the Narou'i tribe in Iranian Baluchistan. Shot to death in the street.
Mojahedin and National Liberation Army c 29.01.93 Baghdad Iraq Terrorists planted a bomb in a city bus in Baghdad which they knew to be used by the Mojahedin and NLA. No one was injured in the blast.
Saeed Shakeri 24.01.93 Sweden Mojahedin supporter. Attacked in the city library, resulting in a broken nose and fractured skull. His serious head injuries and the threat of infection necessitated surgery.
Mehdi Baba'I 22.01.93 Oslo Norway Mojahedin supporter. Two terrorists from the regime's embassy in Oslo brutally assaulted him. They fled when police arrived. Baba'i required hospitalization.
Mehdi Ha'eri 18.01.93 Germany Cleric opposed to the regime. Terrorists posing as acquaintances made an appointment to see him by phone. Aware his life was in danger, police guarding his residence arrest 1 man and discover a knife and a silencer-equipped gun in the car.
Gholam-Hossein Kazemi 12.01.93 Iraq member of the Mojahedin and combatant in the National Liberation Army of Iran. Assassinated while driving between NLA bases. The other occupants of the car were wounded.
Abbas Golizadeh 26.12.92 Istanbul Turkey Former bodyguard to the Shah. Kidnapped from his home in a suburb of Istanbul. Fate unknown.
Mohammad Sadeq Sharafkandi 17.09.92 Germany leader of the Kurdistan Democratic Party of Iran, three other Kurds (Homayoun Ardalan, Fattah Abdolahi, and Nuri Dehkordi) and a fifth unidentified individual. Sharafkandi and the 3 Kurds were shot dead when terrorists sprayed them with machinegun fire in
Mojahedin Office in Baghdad 15.09.92 Baghdad Iraq Around midnight, 4 terrorists dispatched by the regime attempted to enter one of the Mojahedin's offices. Confronted by a security guard, one escaped, two were arrested, and the fourth, who attempted to open fire, was shot and killed.
Feridoun Farokhzad 09.08.92 Germany Entertainer. Stabbed and beheaded with a knife.
Homayoun Maraghe'I 06.08.92 Germany head of the overseas office of the People's Party. Wounded with a knife.
Gholam Ghahremani 03.08.92 Dubai supporter of Mojahedin seeking political asylum. Kidnapped from his residence and transferred to Evin Prison in Tehran.
Members of the Kurdistan Democratic Part 23.06.92 Iraq Terrorist infiltrators poison the food at the KDP's HQ. 7 persons hospitalized in critical condition, 3 of whom subsequently died Hadi Mahmoudi (7/7/92), Ali Nanoureh (7/18/92), and Fakhroddin Moradi (7/12/92).
Mojahedin supporters 05.06.92 Turkey Car bomb planted in a car used by Mojahedin supporters defused before it went off. Mojahedin supporters. Car bomb planted in a car used by Mojahedin supporters in Istanbul destroys the vehicle.
Ali-Akbar Ghorbani 04.06.92 Istanbul Turkey Mojahedin member. Kidnapped by Tehran's terrorists in front of his home in Istanbul. Terrorists arrested admitted having been trained in Iran, and having turned Ghorbani over to Iranian agents, who tortured and then murdered him. They led police to a shal
Kamran Mansour Moqadam 03.06.92 Iraq member of the Communist Union. Murdered by machinegun fire.
Shahpour Firouzi 31.05.92 Iraq member of the Kurdistan Democratic Party - Revolutionary Leadership. Assassinated by machinegun.
Seifollah Seimanpour 01.05.92 Iraq Refugee. Killed by machinegun fire.
Kamal Reza'I 11.04.92 Netherlands Member of Mojahedin. Terrorists set an ambush for him near his residence, but he escaped the trap.
Nareh Rafi'zadeh 26.03.92 New Jersey U.S.A. wife and sister-in-law of former intelligence agents under the Shah. Assassinated as she left her car at her New Jersey residence.
Abolhassan Banisadr 06.12.91 Versailles France Khomeini's first president. The would-be assassins, who had entered his home in Versailles, fled when French security agents opened fire.
Members of the Kurdistan Democratic Part 29.10.91 Iraq A bomb-laden mini-bus was detonated in the path of a bus carrying the KDP members and their families. 3 persons were killed and a number, including small children, wounded.
Saeed Yazdanpanah 19.09.91 Iraq member of the Revolutionary Union of the Kurdish People, and Sirous Katibeh, his secretary. Terrorist infiltrators stabbed both to death at Yazdanpanah's residence.
Shahpour Bakhtiar 06.08.91 Paris France The Shah's last Prime Minister, and Soroush Katebeh, his personal secretary. Bakhtiar's throat was slit and his aide stabbed to death at Bakhtiar's home near Paris.
Abdolrahman Boroumand 18.04.91 Paris France Aide to Bakhtiar. Stabbed to death in the street in Paris.
Ahad Aqa 01.01.91 Iraq Member of Kurdistan Democratic Party. Assassinated in the street.
Khaled Hosseinpour 01.01.91 Iraq Member of Khebat, Assassinated.
Komeleh H.Q 01.01.91 Iraq A Peshmarg was killed when a bomb planted by terrorists went off at the HQ.
Iranian refugees supporting the Mojahedi 31.10.90 Rome Italy A group of refugees was attacked in the street by the regime's agents, three of whom, carrying diplomatic passports, were arrested. Many supporters were hospitalized with serious injuries.
Sirous Elahi 23.10.90 Paris France Member of Derafsh Kaviani. Shot and killed at his residence in Paris.
Gholam Reza Nakha'I 01.10.90 Turkey Iranian political refugee. Killed in his hotel room with a severe blow to the head.
Amir Qazi 06.09.90 Sweden member of Kurdistan Democratic Party of Iran. His wife, Effat Qazi, was killed when she opened a letter bomb addressed to her husband.
Ali Kashefpour 15.07.90 Turkey member of the Kurdistan Democratic Party of Iran -Revolutionary Leadership. Terrorists kidnapped him from his home in a refugee quarter. His tortured body was later found in a roadside ditch.
Kamal Reza'I 28.05.90 Germany Mojahedin spokesman. Two of the regime's agents arrested in an unsuccessful assassination attempt.
Prof. Kazem Rajavi 24.04.90 Geneva Switzerland Representative of the National Council of Resistance of Iran, elder brother of Massoud Rajavi, Leader of the Iranian Resistance. Shot to death in his car in Coppet, near Geneva. Swiss police confirmed at least 13 terrorists with Iranian service passports
Hossein Mir-Abedini 14.03.90 Istanbul Turkey Mojahedin member. Shot and critically wounded en route by car to Istanbul airport.
Hadj Balouch Khan 16.02.90 Taftan Pakistan Royalist.Assassinated by a Guards Corps commando squad in Taftan.
Hossein Keshavarz, Mojahedin sympathizer 14.09.89 Karachi Pakistan A hail of machinegun fire gravely wounded him in Karachi, leaving him paralyzed in both legs.
Sadiq Kamangar 04.09.89 Iraq member of Komeleh. Infiltrators assassinated him at his H.Q.
Bahman Javadi and Youssef Rashidzadeh 26.08.89 Cyprus members of Komeleh, Javadi was shot and killed in the street. Rashidzadeh was wounded.
Abdol Rahman Qassemlou 13.07.89 Vienna Austria Leader of the Kurdistan Democratic Party of Iran, Abdullah Qaderi-Azar, Fadel Mala, and Mahmoud Rassoul, his aides. Shot dead in Vienna while meeting secretly with representatives of Rafsanjani. A senior Guards Corps commander oversaw the murders. Two Ira
Ata'ollah Bayahmadi 04.06.89 Dubai ex-military intelligence colonel under the Shah. Assassinated in his hotel room.
Gathering of Mojahedin sympathizers 11.02.89 Germany A bomb exploded in front of the door to the meeting hall. 3 persons wounded.
Gathering of Mojahedin sympathizers 01.02.89 Rome Italy Terrorists armed with knives and clubs attacked the meeting in Rome. 3 persons were wounded.
Iranian refugees 03.12.88 Karachi Pakistan Iranian refugees waiting outside the UNHCR office in Karachi attacked. One person killed, 5 wounded.
Javad Ha'eri 01.12.87 Istanbul Turkey Dissident . Stabbed to death by two men at this home in Istanbul.
Behrouz Bagheri, son of Bahman Bagheri 28.11.87 Paris France former Air Force commander, bomb planted in his Paris store.
Iranian refugees 31.10.87 Quetta Pakistan Bomb planted in a hotel in Quetta. Police arrested Guards Corps members. One Iranian killed, another wounded.
Abolhassan Mojtahedzadeh and Mostafa Abrari of the 11.10.87 Istanbul Turkey Kidnapped in Istanbul by Iranian embassy personnel. Abrari escaped his captors. The police discovered Mojtahedzadeh in the trunk of an Iranian embassy car with diplomatic plates near the Iran-Turkey border.
Ali and Noureddin Nabavi Tavakoli 03.10.87 London United Kingdom father and son, royalists, Shot in the back of the head in the living room of their London home.
Ahmad Talebi 10.09.87 Geneva Switzerland Fighter pilot, refugee. Assassinated on the street in Geneva by two armed men.
Mohammad Hassan Mansouri 25.07.87 Istanbul Turkey Anti-Khomeini dissident, and another person, Assassinated by two men at his home in Istanbul.
Alireza Hassanpour Sharifzadeh, Faramarz Aqa'i and other Mo 08.07.87 Karachi Pakistan 13 homes in Karachi and Quetta attacked with RPG rockets and submachine guns. Sharifzadeh and Aqa'i were killed and 33 persons wounded. 9 men identified by police as Guards Corps members were arrested at the Iran-Pakistan border.
Amir-Hossein Amir-Parviz 08.07.87 United Kingdom Affiliate of Shah's last Prime Minister,Bakhtiar, Severely injured in a car bombÆ
Mojahedin supporters 12.06.87 Pakistan 3 persons injured in terrorist attack on their center.
Mojahedin supporters 31.05.87 Pakistan Terrorists threw acid on students manning a literature stand, seriously wounding 2 people.
Hamidreza Chitgar (Hamid Bahmani) 19.05.87 Vienna Austria First Secretary of the Workers Party. Assassinated in a house in Vienna. His body was discovered by police on Jul. 12, 1987.
Ali Akbar Mohammadi 16.01.87 Germany Former pilot for Rafsanjani. Assassinated in the street by two men.
Vali Mohammad and, former Marine officer 12.11.86 Pakistan Shot five times and killed.
Ahmadhamed Monfared (Hamid Farzaneh) 24.10.86 Turkey ex-Army colonel Assassinated by 2 men armed with silencer-equipped pistols.
Reza Fazeli 01.07.86 United Kingdom an anti-Khomeini mov
Abdolreza Salimi, Ali-Akbar Khalvati, Mojahedin su 24.01.86 Dubai Kidnapped and tortured in a safe house to extract information on other Mojahedin sympathizers.
Ahmad Madani 01.01.86 Paris France A former Defense Minister and governor under the Shah, Lapsed into a coma for 48 hrs. after eating poisoned candies in Paris brought from Iran. The gift-bearer meanwhile disappeared.
Aziz Moradi 23.12.85 Istanbul Turkey ex-colonel in the Shah's Army Assassinated in Istanbul.
Mir Monavat 28.09.85 Karachi Pakistan Majlis deputy from Baluchistan under the Shah Murdered at his home in Karachi by 3 armed men.
Behrouz Shahvardilou 06.01.85 Istanbul Turkey Police colonel under the Shah Assassinated in the Koucheh Kyabi district of Istanbul.
Gholam-Ali Oveissi 07.02.84 Paris France former commander of the Shah's Army, and his brother,an ex-general, Assassinated in the street in Paris.
Iranian refugee 01.02.84 Paris France Attacked by armed terrorists in the UNESCO Bldg. in Paris.
Anti-Khomeini students 01.09.83 Pakistan One student was murdered in an attack by the regime's agents.
Esfandiar Rahimi Taqanaki 08.02.83 Manilla Philippines Mojahedin supporter Stabbed to death with a knife and machete in Manilla.
Mojahedin supporters 06.12.82 Paris France On successive days, Khomeini's terrorists, armed with knives, chains and guns, attacked students distributing Mojahedin publications. A number were hospitalized for injuries.
Abdol-Amir Rahdar and other Mojahedin supporters 10.09.82 India Terrorists armed with knives and machetes attacked a demonstration protesting human rights abuses in Iran. Amir Rahdar was murdered, and 20 others seriously wounded.
Ahmad Zolanvar and other Mojahedin supporters 29.08.82 Karachi Pakistan Two terrorists astride motorcycles attacked him and his companions in Karachi, causing wounds resulting in brain hemorrhaging. He was subsequently transferred to Denmark for emergency surgery, where he died on Sep. 5, 1982.
Mojahedin supporters 20.06.82 Dallas U.S.A A gathering of Resistance supporters in Dallas, Texas, was attacked by a gang armed with knives, clubs, rocks and bottles.One was hospitalized.
Shahram Mirami, and other anti-Khomeini students 08.06.82 India 100 terrorists armed with clubs, knives and machetes attacked the Aligarh dormitory, where a group of Iranian students were holding a hunger strike to protest executions in Iran. Shahram Mirami was murdered and 9 other students seriously wounded.
Student supporter of the Mojahedin 08.06.82 India Terrorists seriously wounded him in a brutal assault.
Anti-Khomeini demonstration by Mojahedin 06.06.82 Spain Woman Mojahedin supporter stabbed in the back of the neck.
University students supporting the Mojah 24.04.82 Germany 150 terrorists armed with clubs, knives, chains, brass knuckles and tear gas attacked a student dormitory in Mainz. A young German woman was killed and 28 Iranian students severely wounded.
3 Mojahedin supporters 24.04.82 Sweden Seriously wounded in an attack by terrorists in the street.
Anti-Khomeini Iranian student 15.04.82 Sweden Attacked by Khomeini's terrorists at a bus stop. The following day, he was again attacked in retaliation for speaking to the press about the incident.
Student supporters of the Mojahedin 27.03.82 Sweden Terrorists armed with chains severely wounded several students, who required hospitalization.
Meeting sponsored by Mojahedin supporter 13.03.82 Oklahoma U.S.A. Students attacked and severely wounded at Oklahoma University.
Iranians attending funeral service for S 15.01.82 Manilla Philippine Terrorist lobbed a grenade into the gathering; 3 persons hospitalized with critical wounds.
Shahrokh Missaqi 14.01.82 Manilla Philippines Supporter of the People's Feda'ii Stabbed and killed in Manilla.
Iranian woman dissident 22.11.81 Stockholm Sweden Terrorists attacked her in Stockholm, resulting in her hospitalization for injuries.
Ali-Akbar Tabataba'i, 23.07.80 Washington DC U.S.A. Diplomat under the Shah. Shot and killed at his suburban Washington home.
Shahpour Bakhtiar 18.07.80 Paris France Shah's last Prime Minister A five-man hit squad tried to shoot its way into his Paris home. A policeman and a neighbor were killed, three policemen wounded.
Shahriar Shafiq 08.12.79 Paris France Former officer in the Shah's Army Assassinated in front of his Paris home.

Recent Report by Amnesty International

Spoiler :

Amnesty: Iran Has Executed Tens of Thousands in 16 Years, Associated Press, May 30
Iran has executed tens of thousands of suspected government opponents in the last 16 years and kept large numbers of political prisoners languishing in jail, Amnesty International said Wednesday.

Opposition activists have been targeted for attack over the past 18 months and even Iranian dissidents who fled abroad are not safe, the London-based rights group said in 17- page report.

Despite Iran's refusal to allow human rights investigators into the country, Tehran has not been able to hide its "appalling human rights record,"Amnesty said.

Over the past 15 years, scores of dissidents living outside Iran have been "assassinated in circumstances suggesting they may have been extrajudicially executed by Iranian government agents," it said.

The report cites cases of long-term political prisoners held without trial, and suspected executions of government opponents both inside and outside Iran by government agents...

Four leaders of religious minority groups _ three Christians and a Sunni Muslim _ were found dead recently in suspicious circumstances, believed killed by Iranian government agents, the report said...

http://www.iran-e-azad.org/english/hr.html

Very nice. It has nothing to do, however, with the level of representation in Iran. Maybe I haven't made myself clear: I'm not a supporter of this regime, I know it is a far cry from a real democracy, and I'm quite aware that they have done some terrible, inhumane things.

HOWEVER, this are some democratic institutions in place. Enough, one might say, not advocate a complete regime change by military conquest, but rather to encourage domestic reform of the system.

 

[Ecofarm]

Rambuchan:
And surely a focus on bringing democracy and human rights to all countries, not just those sitting on loads of black gold, would lend more credibility to the case that your concerns are genuinely motivated by a respect for the values put forth in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, no?

We cannot invade EVERYONE who abuses human rights at the same time. Certainly this is plainly obvious to you. We fight for human rights in many ways other than militarily, all over the world, everyday. To say that in order to be legitimate, we would have to invade 20 countries at once is stupid.

Che:
Very nice. It has nothing to do, however, with the level of representation in Iran.

This has nothing to do with the level of representation?

Iran has executed tens of thousands of suspected government opponents in the last 16 years

That's odd. I'd think that the execution of TENS OF THOUSANDS of government opponents would qualify as under-representation, at the least.

 

[Che Guava]

@Che: This has nothing to do with the level of representation?

No. THat has to do with civil liberties and human rights. Not exactly seperate, but not the same thing.

 

[Ecofarm]

C'mon now Che, don't play semantics. If tens of thousands of political dessenters are murdered, there is a lack of representation. Specifically, a lack of representation for any view opposing the government. This is plainly obvious. When your choice is: "shut up or die", you have no representation. For tens of thousands of people, this has been the case. How many more tens of thousands choose to shut up?

 

[Rambuchan]

@Rambuchan: We cannot fight EVERYONE who abuses human rights at the same time. Certainly this is plainly obvious to you. To say that in order to be legitimate, we would have to invade 20 countries at once is stupid.

You mean you aren't the super-hero world police force capable of invading anyone and everyone? Seems to be the line you're toeing with Iran. But, let's just pretend you aren't so limitlessly powerful, just for a moment, is it simply a coincidence that it tends to be oil wealthy countries that you focus your concern on?

Further, it's you who equates invasion with Human Rights, not me. And doesn't that sound somewhat contradictory to a number of the articles in the Declaration, and with Article 3 in particular?

I await your to hear your actions about the other Articles being violated within your own national borders, just some of which I brought up. Who should invade the USA to bring about those rights?

 

[Ecofarm]

You mean you aren't the super-hero world police force capable of invading anyone and everyone? Seems to be the line you're toeing with Iran. But, let's just pretend you aren't so limitlessly powerful, just for a moment, is it simply a coincidence that it tends to be oil wealthy countries that you focus your concern on?

Further, it's you who equates invasion with Human Rights, not me. And doesn't that sound somewhat contradictory to a number of the articles in the Declaration, and with Article 3 in particular?

I await your to hear your actions about the other Articles being violated within your own national borders, just some of which I brought up. Who should invade the USA to bring about those rights?

I don't know where you got your little fantasy about how I think the US could invade anyone and everyone (at the same time). I never implied any such thing. Kicking the crap out of Iran alone, however, would be just too easy.

I do not equate invasion with human rights. Again you invent things about me. I do not see the US as in violation of Article 3.

No articles are being violated by the US, therefore, noone needs to invade the US.

You can try to prove otherwise, but you will be making mountains out of molehills and innocent victims out of terrorists.

 

[Rambuchan]

I'm not going to address your little fantasy about how I think the US could invade anyone and everyone (at the same time). I never implied any such thing. Kicking the crap out of Iran alone, however, would be just too easy.

As easy as "kicking the crap" out of Iraqis? As easy as "kicking the crap" out of the Taliban?

You've been at those guys for a while...

Besides, you'd have to get out of those two countries first if you want to "kick the crap out of Iran alone".

Anyway, I thought you were bringing them democracy, not just "kicking the crap out them"...

I do not equate invasion with human rights. Again you invent things about me.

Funny, you brought up the Declaration earlier in the thread when I asked you about the USA's right to invade to bring about democracy. Now you're denying it. You've even failed to point out where in the Declaration that it says it is the USA's responsibility to bring these about by force, despite my asking you in clear English. Am I to take you for a dishonest poster that runs away from their claims when tested?

I do not see the US as in violation of Article 3.

You don't see how invasions cause war and how war brings about a loss of life, liberty and security of person? You're an even worse arm chair general than I first thought! You don't even know the consequences of your actions!

No articles are being violated by the US, therefore, noone needs to invade the US.

I bet you haven't even read it properly. There are numerous, but you seem to allow semantics and rhetoric to blind you to them.

You can try to prove otherwise, but you will be making mountains out of molehills and innocent victims out of terrorists.

This is perhaps a debate for another thread but I'll take a taster bite to see how serious or laughable you really are.

Guantanamo Bay....

Article 5.

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 6.

Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Article 8.

Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

Article 9.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Article 10.

Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Article 11.

(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

Going to deny these? Need I carry on? If not, let's get onto the serious matter of who should invade the USA to save all you poor people from such gross violation of your Universal Human rights.

 

[Ecofarm]

The electorate also elects the president, and the parliament, while the supreme leader is chosen by elected officials. I'm not saying its a democracy, but its not a dictatorship either. How many positions in teh US government are simply appointed by elected officials anyhow? THere are degrees of democracy, all I'm saying is that Iran is certainly not at the bottom.

The Supreme Leader is not chosen by elected officials. Don't be naive.

The officials appointed by elected officials in the US are not beyond the reach of the people. Witness: the resignation of Gonzo.

I'm not saying Iran is at the bottom either, but 10s of 1000s of people in 16 years is pretty bad. The only worse countries I can think of, off the top of my head, are N. Korea and Sudan. I'm not sure how bad China is, but since we at least have some CFC members who are in China (internet access being the point), I think there is more hope for peaceful democractic revolution there. Pakistan is a pretty big mess, but I don't know any figures on political executions there.

 

[Ecofarm]

Anyway, I thought you were bringing them democracy, not just "kicking the crap out them"...

<snip>

Am I to take you for a dishonest poster that runs away from their claims when tested?

This is perhaps a debate for another thread but I'll take a taster bite to see how serious or laughable you really are.

Guantanamo Bay....

Going to deny these? Need I carry on? If not, let's get onto the serious matter of who should invade the USA to save all you poor people from such gross violation of your Universal Human rights.

You need not waver in your opinion, we are bringing them democracy. But you seem to be confused about who "they" are. "They" are the people of the country. The "government", however, needs the crap kicked out of it.

Just because I am tired of debating Guantanamo with every yahoo that says "what about gitmo!" does not mean I am either dishonest or running away. Nonetheless, I will address it briefly. I see Gitmo as necessary, and the testimony of inmates as sensitive intelligence. You assume there there is no documented reason for their incarceration. I assume otherwise.

Consider all of your points concerning the UDoHR denied. You may still carry on with the serious subject of who should invade the us, but not with me (at least not right now).

I suggest you start your thread. I'm going to play final frontier.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

That's not how Amnesty International see it but then you would never post a link from them... unless it was trying to prove a point about Iran.

 

[CaptainF]

Why do we even need to do anything about Iran anyway?

 

[Photi]

The poll questions themselves are biased, even if one thinks nothing should be done, the poll makes it sounds like it is a forgone conclusion that Iran will automatically attack Israel with those nukes, where is your proof of that? Iran's nuclear program began under the shah, and when Khomeni took the lead, the nuclear program was indefinitely put on hold until the Islamic scholars could rule on whether or not even possessing nuclear weapons is Islamically justified. Obviously they found the justification, but then it is yet another leap to decide if the use of such weapons is Islamically justified, and I don't think Islam would justify it except maybe in an act of defense where Iran was being attacked with nuclear weapons.

I see what you mean, but the problem with having a nuclear iran is that they will use it against Israel, which is America's ally. The Iranian president has made that clear on several occasions. Also, his certain brand of extremism dictates that a world consuming war will hurry up the return of the Shaman (pardon me if I misspelled that) and bring about a Utopia on earth. So that nut actually believes that if he starts a nuclear war with America, let alone a general Middle-Eastern war, he will hurry up the return of that Muslim sects 'savior.'

Why do you think Shia Islam is extremist? The sect has been around since the death of the Muhammad, and they have lived most of their existence being persecuted by dominant Sunni regimes. Not until the 20th C. has an awakened activism fueled the formulation of Shii Islam into a political ideology, and to call something extreme because it has an activist nature is absurd.

Further, I don't know what you have been reading, but no where have I seen the term 'Mahdi' translated as 'shaman.' If translated at all it is usually as Messiah. Anyway, the Mahdi is a figure in both Sunni and Shia Islam, there is disagreement however on exactly who he is. The Sunnis believe he is yet to come, the Twelver Shias believe he is already here and has been here for centuries and is the twelfth and last in a line of Infallible decendents of the the Prophet. The final war, not unlike armageddon, will for the Sunnis bring the Mahdi from heaven, and for the Shias the war will signal his return from his hiding somewhere on Earth. Both Sunnis and Shias believe that this war will also signal the return of Jesus to give one last call to the Christians to join the side of God, Islam. It is important to note that Muslims, Sunni and Shia, believe this final war in no controversial terms will be started by the enemies of God. So your conclusion about Ahmadinijad wanting to start this war is plain non-sense, as according to his beliefs that would mean he is on the wrong side.

Iran is a 'natural' nation-state. The people see themselves as the descendants of a 2500 year-old civilization. Although one can point to discontent among the people, it is pure folly to believe that this discontent is such that they would turn their backs on their government if the US were to invade. A US invasion would likely spark a rallying of the people around their government, and we the US would very soon be finding ourselves in a much wider, much harder to contain conflict that could potentially ignite the Middle East, if not region-wide then certainly likely expanded in Iraq and now Iran.

Why do we Americans think that we can control everyone? Iran is a very geo-politically strategic country, they have many more people than Iraq, they know this, why should they content themselves with not having a say on what goes on in their region? I swear we as a nation are the biggest hypocrites to ever exist. We continue to ask of nations what we ourselves find reprehensible. We had every right to demand the Soviets to leave Cuba, no serious one here disputes this, and yet Iran is to sit idly by while the US, an outspoken enemy of Iran, amasses great amounts of power all around it?

We keep hearing all these talks about how Iran should reform itself etc etc. Tell me, how is Iran supposed to reform itself when it has been in a more or less constant existential crisis since the inception of the Republic? The US keeps thinking that it can tell nations what to do backed by the threat of force. The regime there has no chance at allowing a loyal opposition to develop within their borders because the ones in power there know damn well that any 'loyal opposition' to develop will very soon be infiltrated by people who want to bring down the regime. The late '90's saw some progress towards reform made there under the Presidency of Khatami, a relative period of calm for the Islamic Republic, but then 9/11 happened and the threats came pouring back in pushing back the reforms. We are a nation of irrational hippocrites, of course a nation will feel threatened if constantly threatened, esp by a rather powerful foe like the US. Duh.

And all this talk about Iran not being a democracy, what gives? It does not claim to be a democracy, it claims itself to be a republic, which in strict terms, so is the US. Iran has a genuine elected body, it also has an unelected Council of Guardians, so what? We have an unelected Supreme Court. Maybe the functions are different, but who are we to dictate what the Wilayat al-faqih's funtion should be? They answer to God, and just b/c the West has abandoned a more religious form of government, that does not give us the right to demand the same of all other people. Our abandonment of it was a societally internal Christian experience. They have an Islamic experience, and for the Shia world, having an Islamic government is something quite new and modern, their history over the last 600 years at least is one of having secular governments rule over them. Iran is not the backward society that so many of these posters here today think that it is. It has been living civilization long before Europe discovered fire.

I say leave them alone, yes they will probably get nukes and that will increase their power, and yes that means they will have more say in the region, lessening the US influence, and yes that may even spark a region wide arms race, and yes that is scary to me, be we are stupid to think that we can keep them down. I just don't think it is surprising to think that such an histrorically and strategically important country is trying to flex its muscles. They want to be masters in their own house? of course they do.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Still waiting for actual evidence that Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons.

And besides, do you honestly expect us to believe you? After Iraq, when you at best botched the intelligence and at worst outright fabricated and lied, do you really expect us to believe you when you're saying the exact same thing today?

 

[Ecofarm]

PhotitheMalfeas, I don't believe one bit of that.

If Ajihadforyou/ooga booga clan were to start a war, he/they would be on the wrong side of the Islamic Prophecy?

I would say he already has started war, by sending IRG into Iraq and defying the UN on matters of critical (mass) importance. Of course, when Iran attacks the US, they do not see it as starting a war, they see it as defending themselves. When/if Iran employs a nuclear device, they will most certainly not see it as them starting it. The cry will echo from Iran: "But THEY started it!" Just as it does today.

It's not a democracy, it is a republic?

A republic is a form of democracy and Iran is no more a republic than N. Korea.

We are a nation of irrational hypicrites?

I disagree.

The reason Iran has executed tens of thousands of political dissidents is because they know that any opposition will eventually be "infiltrated" by those wishing to bring down the regime?

The political dissidents executed were trying to do just that. Just because someone might want to bring down the Bush regime we do not execute them.

"I say we let em go" (like Pee Wee Herman in the biker bar) is not gonna cut it.

Tens of thousands of slaughtered political opponents, hundreds of thousands of politically muted citizens, hundreds of terrorist acts committed around the world, attacks on American troops in Iraq by the Iranian army, shelling of villages in Iraq with no proof of reason or need, the expulsion of the international atomic energy commission, and repeated genocidal rhetoric.

Enough is enough.