What to do with Iran...

[GenMarshall]

Bush also called Iraq, Iran and north korea the axis of evil. + attacked one of them. go figure.

I have heard the Iranians calling the US "The Great Satan" Long Before Bush ever set foot into office of the presidency.

 

[mrt144]

I see what you mean, but the problem with having a nuclear iran is that they will use it against Israel, which is America's ally. The Iranian president has made that clear on several occasions. Also, his certain brand of extremism dictates that a world consuming war will hurry up the return of the Shaman (pardon me if I misspelled that) and bring about a Utopia on earth. So that nut actually believes that if he starts a nuclear war with America, let alone a general Middle-Eastern war, he will hurry up the return of that Muslim sects 'savior'.

So basically it's a crappy situation no matter what. And whatever happens, the only nation that will benifit in the end is Russia. Which will make the current chill in relations between the East and West plunge into a second cold war.

will they USE it? They will threaten Israel, but for them to use it guarantees retaliation by israel. Nuclear retaliation.

 

[mrt144]

Because Russia has a third of the planets natural gas reserves and over 10% of the planets oil. If the Middle East is destabilized even more, oil prices will be rediculous, and the west will be forced to purchase their oil from companies other than OPEC. And as the West, America especially, starve from the lack of energy Russia would get rich and possibly re-assert itself

well perhaps the united states shouldnt have been such dicks to the middle east post WWII? reaping what you sow.

 

[mrt144]

When he allows parades of people burning American flags chanting "Death to America" and effigys (sp?) of Uncle Sam, that pretty much states his intentions.

Your saying that becasue he is calculating means he isn't crazy? So Hitler wasn't crazy? or Stalin? or Mao?

didnt we cheer when we saw the cruise missiles blowing up Iraq?

 

[GenMarshall]

Whoh! mrt144, there is a thing known as the Multi-quote

. Please use it .

 

[mrt144]

Khameini is anti-U.S., Ahmadinejad is anti-U.S.

That's about all you need to know.

who isn't these days? the more you hawks want to assert yourselves, the more your credibility sinks. you think we can get the voters behind a war with Iran, in light of Iraq? Karl Rove you aren't.

 

[mrt144]

Whoh! mrt144, there is a thing known as the Multi-quote

. Please use it .

mods can edit my posts. my thoughts dont use multiquote.

 

[Ecofarm]

The more credible a threat the US presents itself as, the better it fulfills its role in Iranian politics as assigned by the Mullahs. Should the US actually attack, it will be to the great detriment to Iranian society as a whoile of course, but it would ensure the continued religious hold on politics.

The US does not merely present itself as a credible threat. It is, and when the US invades, any religious hold on politics will not be that of Mullahs. You see, they are responsible (moreso than Ajihadforyou). They will go the way of Saddam - tried and sentanced by their own people. The US is not acting in the interest of the Mullahs, it is positioning itself to depose them.

Basically the Mullahs of Iran are banking on the US not being so stupid it actually goes to war, but apparently the US is stupid enough to go on playing a credible external threat to Iran.

Again, the US is not playing. Unlike Iran, its credibility is based on a motivated and capable military (not brainwashed morons chanting in the street).

This is of course precisely why the US should probably do nothing at this point. Iran will go nuclear regardless if this is done as an Islamist Republic, or as a secular Republic.

Do nothing, good plan. Iran will go nuclear alright, but ONLY as a democracy of some form.

There is only one way to reasonably limit collateral damage - infantry.

Full on ground invasion.

Rambuchan:

Originally Posted by A1CBOZ
He is a nut, and he has come out and said that all of that is his goal. To annhiliate Israel and America and to spread his extremist BS and all that blah blah blah. And there is no doubt in my mind that war with Iran would suck. But it would clear up Iraq in a hurry.

Who will you invade to clear up the Iranian mess?

Saudi

 

[Che Guava]

The US does not merely present itself as a credible threat. It is, and when the US invades, any religious hold on politics will not be that of Mullahs. You see, they are responsible (moreso than Ajihadforyou). They will go the way of Saddam - tried and sentanced by their own people. The US is not acting in the interest of the Mullahs, it is positioning itself to depose them.

Unfortunately (at least for some), I get the sense that Iranians are much more suspicious of the US than their own leaders. I don't see how exactly the mullahs and the rest of the government would go on trial, they've operated (as far as I can tell) within thier own laws and haven't done anything as extreme as gassing thier own people or carrying out mass executions. We saw just how many Iraqis 'greeted us as liberators' when the colaition invaded, I think Iran, besides being a much more ambitious military goal, would have a population absolutely seething at being occupied.

Again, the US is not playing. Unlike Iran, its credibility is based on a motivated and capable military (not brainwashed morons chanting in the street).

Though its hard to compare, Iran also has a capable and motivated military and police (not to mention well-organized), and support for the current regime goes far beyond just chanting. THe current president was elected, after all, when the electorate had the choice between him and another competent leader who advocated more peaceful relations with the west and a lessening of theocrat power (his name escapes me at the moment)...

Do nothing, good plan. Iran will go nuclear alright, but ONLY as a democracy of some form

There is only one way to reasonably limit collateral damage - infantry.

Full on ground invasion.

Oy, best of luck. Youll get your M16 in the mail....

Saudi

...arabia...?

Not sure what you mean. SHould we invade them too..?

 

[Ecofarm]

What I mean is: If you are not a democracy, you are a target. Anyone who thinks the US is playing games with Iran is mistaken.

 

[mrt144]

the credibility of the united states is in a military that isnt prepared to fight against an insurgency. destabilizing iran like we did iraq is beyond the political capacity of the united states because of the botched iraq operation.

botched how? because the american public was sold on the idea of relative ease. the cheering in the streets happened, but was followed by the reality of iraqi politics and religion.

Ecofarm, a full ground invasion is not only laughably stupid, it is laughably improbable given the mess in Iraq. I also think it's cute how you want military action you have no plan on partaking in.

 

[mrt144]

What I mean is: If you are not a democracy, you are a target.

So the United States is a Bizarro Superman. or The Hulk. No rationale, no thought, just "no democracy, you enemy".

 

[Che Guava]

What I mean is: If you are not a democracy, you are a target. Anyone who thinks the US is playing games with Iran is mistaken.

Funny, the US seems to play nice with China, Pakistan, etc. Are they playing with them,. or is this another strategy I don't understand?

 

[Ecofarm]

I also think it's cute how you want military action you have no plan on partaking in.

Well I think your cute too, sweetie. I volunteered for the front line during Gulf 1. I'm too old now.

 

[mrt144]

Funny, the US seems to play nice with China, Pakistan, etc. Are they playing with them,. or is this another strategy I don't understand?

The United States operates under the guise of moral superiority but really are just a bunch of self serving dingbats with memory problems.

 

[mrt144]

Well I think your cute too, sweetie. I volunteered for the front line during Gulf 1. I'm too old now.

So you're too old to fight but not too old to want others to fight. I'm glad that your overly rosy experience with warfare left you feeling that the United States invincible. Even beyond invincible; Infallible!

 

[A1CBOZ]

Unfortunately (at least for some), I get the sense that Iranians are much more suspicious of the US than their own leaders. I don't see how exactly the mullahs and the rest of the government would go on trial, they've operated (as far as I can tell) within thier own laws and haven't done anything as extreme as gassing thier own people or carrying out mass executions. We saw just how many Iraqis 'greeted us as liberators' when the colaition invaded, I think Iran, besides being a much more ambitious military goal, would have a population absolutely seething at being occupied.

Just because you get a sense of what it is like, doesn't mean that i how it is. I find it very hard to believe that the populace in Iran doesn't care about being oppressed. I'm not saying that would be the reason to attack, just saying that many more Iranian would hail us as heroes instead of demons, except for the morons in power and in their state contolled terror groups that already call the US ''the Great Satan"

Though its hard to compare, Iran also has a capable and motivated military and police (not to mention well-organized), and support for the current regime goes far beyond just chanting. THe current president was elected, after all, when the electorate had the choice between him and another competent leader who advocated more peaceful relations with the west and a lessening of theocrat power (his name escapes me at the moment)...

There is no doubt that the Iranian military is well trained and organized. But any well oiled war machine can quickly fall apart if you attack the right locations. And with the nearly endless resources the US has, an airstrike of the right size would cripple them for years to come.

Oy, best of luck. Youll get your M16 in the mail....

Actually the US Army is getting a new rifle in a few months/year or so. Just thought I'd throw that out there

 

[Ecofarm]

The United States operates under the guise of moral superiority but really are just a bunch of self serving dingbats with memory problems.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Princeps]

What I mean is: If you are not a democracy, you are a target. Anyone who thinks the US is playing games with Iran is mistaken.

What makes you think US is more democratic than Iran?

I've written already extensively on this topic, now I'm just bit tired -- yawn. Maybe I'll find this thread later.

 

[mrt144]

Endless resources? You need a will to use resources like that and honey, you just blew a wad of resources in Iraq. The American people have no such will at this point. You'd happily bomb Iran into the stoneage even if it meant that the american public turned so against using force against future potential threats.