What Type?

[Insane_Panda]

With the exception of whoever will play the Military Buddhists...

Of course. Military buddhists are allowed craziness.

 

[WarlordMatt]

Ok, will start filling out the stats. Waiting for a complete nation list.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Panda...needs to get that map finsihed then we can all look. but you know the main ones Warlord.

 

[Insane_Panda]

What was the state of the German Industrial machine after WWI? I know the economy was in shambles, but Germany still had a strong industrial base to work off of, no?

 

[silver 2039]

Well it's troops were'nt allowed into the Rhur, it had lost Asclae Loariane, and the French and Belgians were seizing their coal and iron mines. So not well....

 

[Reno]

What was the state of the German Industrial machine after WWI?

The main of their industry was in the demilitarised Rheinland, Rhur area. Of cource they had industry elsewhere but Rhur was the main area. When the Weimar was getting it's economy going in 1923, one of the reasons was that it did not pay it's war reparations to France that year. As a result, the French invaded the Rhur and stopped the industry there from working until Germany would continue to pay it's reparations. That short sited move basicly led to the Weimar economy to collapse again.

 

[Insane_Panda]

Well, the republic didn't have a choice whether to pay reparations or not - they just couldn't (due bankruptcy) So in 1923 the government defaulted and couldn't pay its reparations, which is why the French stepped in into the Ruhr area. Which led to the strikes and then led to the hyperinflation.

sounds fun

 

[Reno]

Well, the republic didn't have a choice whether to pay reparations or not - they just couldn't (due bankruptcy) So in 1923 the government defaulted and couldn't pay its reparations, which is why the French stepped in into the Ruhr area. Which led to the strikes and then led to the hyperinflation.

Didn't i just say that?

 

[Insane_Panda]

Well you said they were getting their economy going. It made it seem like the republic was just getting back on its feet - rather, it was collapsing. The real years of development were 1924 onwards.

BTW, do you know the capital of the white russians since Moscow was the capital of the reds and st.petersburg aka petrograd was occupied by the reds aswell?

 

[alex994]

there was no capitol for the White Russians. They were a disorganized group of officers that upheld the ideals of monarchy, or at least was against the October revolution. There were no central planning between the various forces against the Red army.

 

[Insane_Panda]

Ah, danke danke. That clears it up. Now, did the reds have strongholds in the east and central asia aswell, if so, then where?

 

[alex994]

i think the tartars, and some other extremely strange named central asian people formed new governments to oppose the Soviets or something, not sure about that.

Not sure about your question either, but if the reds had strongholds in the east, it would definitely not be in vladistorick and the areas near it due to the Japanese Army aiding the White Russians.

 

[Insane_Panda]

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6116/1919neswip4mr.gif

that is what I have so far. Africa and the south pacific are not done yet, nor are the numerous rebellions i need to put in Russia. Still though, you should be able to craft a nation list.

 

[WarlordMatt]

Okay, here is what I have for the stats so far. I am posting this so that people can comment on them/give suggestions, like as to what a certain nation's army size, economy, or whatever should be.

Bolsheviks
Ruler: Vladimir Lenin
Government: Communism
Capital: Moscow
Economy:
Industry:
Stability:
Culture:
Confidence:
Education:
Army: 600,000 infantry (Inexperienced)
Navy: 6 destroyers, 4 cruisers (Green)
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes:

White Russians
Ruler: Aleksandr Kolchak
Government: Military junta
Capital: None
Economy:
Industry:
Stability:
Culture:
Confidence:
Education:
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes:

Weimar Republic
Ruler: Chancellor Friedrich Ebert
Government: Republic
Capital: Berlin
Economy:
Industry:
Stability:
Culture:
Confidence:
Education:
Army: 100,000 infantry (Trained)
Navy: 6 battleships, 6 cruisers, 12 destroyers (Tolerable)
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes: According to the Treaty of Versailles, Germany's military may not grow beyond the above listed numbers.

Portugal
Ruler:
Government:
Capital:
Economy:
Industry:
Stability:
Culture:
Confidence:
Education:
Army: 35,000 infantry
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes:

Spain
Ruler: King Alfonso XIII
Government: Monarchy
Capital: Madrid
Economy:
Industry:
Stability:
Culture:
Confidence:
Education:
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes:

France
Ruler: Georges Clemenceau
Government: Republic
Capital: Paris
Economy:
Industry:
Stability:
Culture:
Confidence:
Education:
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes:

UK
Ruler: Prime Minister David Lloyd George
Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Capital: London
Economy:
Industry:
Stability:
Culture:
Confidence:
Education:
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes::

Canada
Ruler: Prime Minister Robert Laird Borden
Government: Republic
Capital: Ottawa
Economy:
Industry:
Stability:
Culture:
Confidence:
Education:
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes:

USA
Ruler: President Woodrow Wilson
Government: Republic
Capital: Washington, D.C.
Economy:
Industry:
Stability:
Culture:
Confidence:
Education:
Army:
Navy:
Air Force:
Projects/Techs:
Notes:

 

[das]

I need to know when exactly is this supposed to start, game-wise - January 1st 1919 (no Versailles yet, Hungary still fighting neighbours, Germany on the brink of Spartakist rebellion) or June 28th (Versailles signed). Both dates have their merits - January 1st is more interesting, IMHO, and its easier to find information on the "beginning of the year" then on the middle of it, but June 28th is generally less confusing.

Now on ze Russian situation. In January 1st, Germans are still occupying Courland, but governments in Estonia and Lithuania, albeit threatened by a Red counteroffensive, and a more stable Finnish government are already established. Poland seeks to expand east, at the expense of Ukraine (with which it is at war) and Russia. Ukraine "controls" much of its modern territory plus some more, but minus Crimea. Problematically, Ukraine is divided as well - the Directory dominates Eastern Ukraine from Kiev, whilst the Western Ukrainean National Republic (based in Stanislav/Ivan-Frankivsk) is taking the brunt of the Polish offensive. Both are ideologically the same (right-wing populist, anti-socialist, very nationalist), and thus negotiations are already on about unification. Symon Petlyura wields not much official power, though he is in the government, but de facto he is the one in charge in the east. For game purposes, I think both Ukraines should be considered united from the start rather then from January 22nd as in OTL. Another problem is that Ukraine doesn't have much of an army, whilst at the same being partially-occupied by Whites and partially by Reds. Also there are the Greens (anarchists. Go figure...), not sure what to do with them - probably either a separate faction, or just a rebellion. Belarus is de jure independant as a Soviet Socialist Republic, but de facto its under Red control - and Poland is eying it as well.

Georgia, Armenia and Aizerbadjan are independant from the start, most notably Armenia also controls Kars and in OTL it succesfully fought back invading Turks, Azeris and Georgians. HAYSTAN UBER ALLES!

Central Asia - anarchy, warlords, basmachis.

Interventionists - Britain occupies Baku, Murmansk and Arkhangelsk, Japan occupies Vladivostock, and indeed much of Far East, though there are many problems with that... French forces are in Sevastopol and Odessa, to help... somebody. Probably Whites, but maybe Ukraineans (in OTL, they eventually left, confused, without firing a shot).

Reds are fairly centralized, led from Petrograd by the VKP(b). They actually only control much of modern western European Russia, plus Belarus, plus chunks of Latvia and Estonia. They control the Volga, but slightly to the east from there Kolchak's faction of the Whites is located; it nominally controls all of Siberia and the Urals, though its rule is shaky and unpopular (hence a partisan war all over the region). Far East is Japanese-occupied, but Semenov's clique (not White, but still anti-Bolshevik) is also important. Also, the Military Buddhists are on the verge of appearing... Finally, Denikin commands White Forces in the south; they control northern Caucasus, Crimea, much of the Don River and large chunks of Ukraine that de jure is under the Directory.

By June 28th, situation in Russia is somewhat changed. Poland is on the march eastwards, taking Vilnus and Lvov. Estonia (which housed a White army of Yudenich) and Lithuania are more stabilized, as is (still German-occupied?) Latvia. An Entante puppet government in Arkhangelsk has appeared, under Chaykovsky. Red forces are advancing southwards, having taken Kiev. Petlyura is desperately trying to fight back Reds, Whites and Poles alike in western Ukraine, whilst Denikin is preparing an offensive towards Moscow (in coordination with Yudenich in Estonia, who plans to attack Petrograd). Kolchak is being routed badly, having recently lost his main base in Ufa. His army, harassed by partisans, is retreating towards Irkutsk with many casualties, and a break between left-wing and right-wing whites is beginning.

One more thing - on both dates, Hungary is still fighting all of its neighbours and holding on to numerous territories it lost in OTL. Ofcourse, the conditions change...

 

[Insane_Panda]

I assumed the start of the war was after Versaille, but I could be mistaken.

 

[das]

The start of WHICH war? WWI ended with the Versailles, Russian Civil War begun in 1918 (1917 could be said to be the date as well, but actual fighting beugn in Spring 1918).

IMHO Versailles would be a better start logically, all things considered.

 

[Insane_Panda]

NES, not war, sorry for the confusing garble that is Panda speak.

 

[das]

Well, either way, a lot depends on it. In January 1st year 1919, Ukraine still stands a chance. By the time Versailles came, however... Same with Hungary, though its not as certain.

 

[Reno]

Weren't most of the Russian White Forces HQ stationed from the Ural/Yekaterinburg?