Whats the best type of soldier ever

I consider those who provide medical services to the soldiers as part of the military like those who push buttons in ways to aid the troops. Infact today they are considered officially part of the army and people who have military careers can be people that provide medical services.
Agreed, and in fact the first I believe the first medical corp was organized by Larrey and his ambulances, in Napoleon's army.

But it that case, your comment shouldn't be "the worse soldier is the one who dies because of his wounds", as it has little to do with the soldier itself, but "the worst army is the one that let to many of its soldiers die of their wounds".

Small difference, but quite important.
 
The Red Army did a pretty incredible job at Stalingrad, holding out in the most horrific circumstances, and then turning an almost certain loss into a win that determined the fate of a lot of the world.
I'd say that reflects the army or even the nation as a whole rather than the individual soldiers. Most Soviet soldiers were barely-trained conscripts, a human wall that evolved into a human steamroller. It was a combination of volume and determination rather than actual fighting skill that allowed them to trample through the Reich as they did.

Anyway, I think it's hard to make this judgment in anything but a "time and place" sort of thing. Even within a particular era ad region, environment and situation are incredibly important factors, as the slaughter of the "unbeatable" Legions at the hands of the Germanic "hordes" in the Teutoburg Forest proves. Given a flat, open space and time to properly deploy, the Romans could well have destroyed the relatively disorganised Germans, yet the particular events of the battle reduced the famed Legionary, who so relied on the massed ranks of his comrades-in-arms, to so much tinned meat.
 
I'd say that reflects the army or even the nation as a whole rather than the individual soldiers. Most Soviet soldiers were barely-trained conscripts, a human wall that evolved into a human steamroller. It was a combination of volume and determination rather than actual fighting skill that allowed them to trample through the Reich as they did.

OK, I take your point, in terms of skill they were nothing special, but in terms of determination & resillience they were. To hold out in Stalingrad under the circumstances they did was something few others would have been able for. but I understand your point, and you are right, determination alone isnt what the OP is asking about.
 
as the slaughter of the "unbeatable" Legions at the hands of the Germanic "hordes" in the Teutoburg Forest proves. Given a flat, open space and time to properly deploy, the Romans could well have destroyed the relatively disorganised Germans, yet the particular events of the battle reduced the famed Legionary, who so relied on the massed ranks of his comrades-in-arms, to so much tinned meat.
Massed ranks a la a Hellenistic phalangial formation don't work too well with the legionary. The problem at the Teutoberger Wald was actually that the legionaries needed to have more space between individual soldiers, otherwise they get cut about without room to use their swords. Legionaries needed about five feet of space between soldiers to fight effectively. True, they did have the ability to fight in close, especially since they concentrated on stabbing instead of swiping, but when you're packed together like sardines (forgive the overused simile) it's very hard to use your shield. That was sort of crucial. Another good example of this is Cannae: 70,000 ish Roman legionaries crammed together in a small space got trashed by Hannibal. Then there's the much closer to 9 AD event at the camp of Atuatuca during the Gallic War, when Legio VIII got annihilated by the Eburones in a small valley, as the Romans got jammed up too close to each other.

Romans actually functioned better on uneven ground than on flat, open space, compared to most armies of their time. Look at the Battle of Pydna, when the Macedonian phalanx initially cut apart the Roman formation, but as the Macedonians advanced onto broken ground, the phalanx developed holes and irregularities that the more flexible Roman legionaries exploited to great effect. There was a lot of open space between not only individual legionaries but also between maniples and cohorts, which could be adjusted as the situation warranted.

Flexibility was the order of the day in a Roman legion, but when you're trapped in an iron box you don't have the space to be flexible.

And of course what's often ignored is what happened after the Teutoberger Wald incident. The Empire sent several different expeditions into Germania, mostly punitive. Germanicus, Caligula's daddy, was in charge of the most famous and most important of these; not only did he successfully deal with the same kind of ambush the Cherusci pulled on Quinctilius Varus, but he defeated them in two major engagements on Germanic soil, the most important at Idistoviso. He got two of the three eagles back, but was recalled by the emperor anyway. Rome had the ability to conquer Germania. The problem was that it wasn't economically viable. Grabbing a huge tract of woods and swamps and Romanifying it costs money, and the money wasn't going to be made back out of Germania anytime soon. Hell, even Gaul was a stretch, but at least they had better pottery from being La Tene as opposed to Jastorf.

Oh, as for the "best troops in history"? My vote goes to the Argyraspides, or Silver Shield pikemen. They were the elite of Alexander's phalangitai, and during the Wars of the Diadochi, despite the fact that they were 60-70 years old by then, they formed the core of Eumenes' army against Antigonos Monophthalamos. At the Battles of Paraitakena and Gabiene, Antigonos' cavalry defeated Eumenes' other forces, but both times Antigonos' pezhetairoi were defeated by the Argyraspides without the latter suffering a single casualty, and both times they marched off the field unvanquished. It was only when Antigonos captured their treasures, the riches of decades of plundering in the East, and ransomed them, that they switched sides and murdered Eumenes. Then, to break them up, Antigonos sent them off in small groups to fight and die in the Bactrian and Arachosian wilds so that they couldn't ever be a political or military force again.
 
Fair points. I was just attempting to highlight the fact that there is no "best type of soldier", even within a particular region or time period. So much of it depends on particular circumstances- whatever they may be- favouring a particular troop type or tactic that it's virtually impossible to present any one troop type as "best". If the Legions were simply flat-out superior to the Germanic troops, then Teutoburg would not have occurred. As it was, the Romans were simply superior in the majority of circumstances.
 
Then, to break them up, Antigonos sent them off in small groups to fight and die in the Bactrian and Arachosian wilds so that they couldn't ever be a political or military force again.

A very interesting and educational post, Dach! But this line jumped out at me as something I do in Rome Total War when I have completely inadequate family members; you know, raving mad, horrible trade and command penalties, men who posess no use to me, I either put on a ship and set sail for the closest barbarian fleet, or send him off alone to fight the rebel hordes. :evil:
 
Traitorfish: oh, absolutely. As may be seen from my posts in the "mass archery armies" thread, I'm a combined-arms whore. But also, since I like Romans, I just had to try to defend them whatever way I could. :D
A very interesting and educational post, Dach!
Thanks. I like classical history.
Cheezy the Wiz said:
But this line jumped out at me as something I do in Rome Total War when I have completely inadequate family members; you know, raving mad, horrible trade and command penalties, men who posess no use to me, I either put on a ship and set sail for the closest barbarian fleet, or send him off alone to fight the rebel hordes. :evil:
When playing as the Parthians in Rome: Total Realism, I sent two of my family members with a combined bodyguard of 35 guys off into the wilds of Central Asia and then had them besiege a barbarian village to just get rid of them, like you said. When the city inhabitants - a stack of 12 horse archer units - attacked, I decided to play out the battle just to kill them off myself. Forgetting that heavy cavalry is superior to lightly armed horse archers when the horse archers are in a confined space, I managed to get my generals into the city and smashed through the 600 horse archers like a scythe through wheat and captured the village with 2 casualties. Stupid, stupid, stupid. :p
 
Pre 476: Spartans or Roman Legionaires

476-1500: Mongol horsemen or Samurai.

1650-1850: British redcoat

1945-current: USMC

Spec ops are special, and do not count in this discussion.
 
Pre 476: Spartans or Roman Legionaires

476-1500: Mongol horsemen or Samurai.

1650-1850: British redcoat

1945-current: USMC

Spec ops are special, and do not count in this discussion.

I'd like to note that the Tercio is certainly worth mentioning, among others.

1490-1650: Spanish tercio

I took this post, becuase here you can see what are the most common thought off and selected soldiers.

I do think the Spanish Tercio tactics revolutionised warfare and should e worth mentioning.
 
What about the troops Alexander and the successors used? Weren't they called Hypastists or something like that? I don't know much classics buut that name sounds about right?
 
What about the troops Alexander and the successors used? Weren't they called Hypastists or something like that? I don't know much classics buut that name sounds about right?
Hypaspistai were among the units Alexander had. The name means "Foot-Companions", which is apt; Alex's heavy cavalry were the Hetairoi, or Companions, and the hypaspistai were powerful light infantry meant to form a link between the cavalry and the slower phalanx of pezhetairoi and argyraspides. Alexander's hypaspistai were probably one of the stronger units of the time: clad in the traditional classical armor of the hoplitai, they weren't as rigid as the various phalangitai units and were often used to storm fortifications or bolster the battle line at key locations. They were on that mad charge with Alexander at Gaugamela when he launched the right wing of his army towards Darius and served all throughout Alex's epic journey, and like the argyraspides they fought in the wars of the Diadochi. We're not sure what exactly happened to them; they probably had to evolve beyond the antiquated hoplite armor to fight in the Hellenistic age. The last sources that I can remember mention them as part of the Seleukid kings' corps of neo-Argyraspides and as fighting with Pyrrhos of Epeiros (:)). But yeah, the hypaspistai were awesome. Only reason I picked the argyraspides over them was 'cause the argyraspides had a neato story to go along with them, whereas we don't know as much about their foot companion friends.
 
I think you made a wee mistake there. If the "hetairoi" are "companions," don't you think it's the "pezhetairoi" that are the "foot-companions"?
 
I'd like to note that the Tercio is certainly worth mentioning, among others.

1490-1650: Spanish tercio

I took this post, becuase here you can see what are the most common thought off and selected soldiers.

I do think the Spanish Tercio tactics revolutionised warfare and should e worth mentioning.

Yes, definitely.
 
I think you made a wee mistake there. If the "hetairoi" are "companions," don't you think it's the "pezhetairoi" that are the "foot-companions"?
Whoops, yeah. I'm good at mixing stuff up, sorry about that. But the infantry roles as described are the same.
 
476-1500: Mongol horsemen or Samurai.
The Samurai were a warrior class, not a troop type as such. They represented a broad range of equipment based, varying both with time period and battlefield role.
What's more, the Samurai were not, despite the pop-culture myth, particularly effective troops. They developed in an isolated culture and so never learned to deal with anything but their own particular approach to warfare. Their only expoosure to non-Japanese warfare were the Mongol invasions, which never really went beyond a few skirmishes, and the later invasions of Korea, both of which ended disastrously for the Samurai.

I'd like to note that the Tercio is certainly worth mentioning, among others.

1490-1650: Spanish tercio

I took this post, becuase here you can see what are the most common thought off and selected soldiers.

I do think the Spanish Tercio tactics revolutionised warfare and should e worth mentioning.
The tercio was a combined-arms formation, not a troop-type. It was a combination of pikeman and musketeers, and, while invented in Spain, was by no means exclusive to it. In fact, the formation had it's origins in earlier combined arms formations used by the English, Swiss and Burgundians.
It was improtant and effective, no argument, but hardly a particular troop type in the same sense as the Spartan hoplite or Mongol mounted archer.
 
The Samurai were a warrior class, not a troop type as such. They represented a broad range of equipment based, varying both with time period and battlefield role.
What's more, the Samurai were not, despite the pop-culture myth, particularly effective troops. They developed in an isolated culture and so never learned to deal with anything but their own particular approach to warfare. Their only expoosure to non-Japanese warfare were the Mongol invasions, which never really went beyond a few skirmishes, and the later invasions of Korea, both of which ended disastrously for the Samurai.


The tercio was a combined-arms formation, not a troop-type. It was a combination of pikeman and musketeers, and, while invented in Spain, was by no means exclusive to it. In fact, the formation had it's origins in earlier combined arms formations used by the English, Swiss and Burgundians.
It was improtant and effective, no argument, but hardly a particular troop type in the same sense as the Spartan hoplite or Mongol mounted archer.

you are right. I admit my mistake. :) (note to self: stop playing strategy games :s )
 
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