What's your go-to strategy for Byzantium?

[LukaSlovenia29]

Hi.

With the recent significant changes to religion and a desire to play a more peaceful game on Immortal/Deity, what's your go-to strategy when playing Byzantium (or simply advice for us)? Both in general and specifically which beliefs do you pick etc.

Thank you!

 

[CrazyG]

Ancestor Worship (but any pantheon can work)
Apostolic Tradition/ Way of Pilgrim
???
Bonus -Pacifism

Churches
Evangelism

The really unfair thing is that you get to choose both Pacifism (cheaper missionaries and happiness) and Evangelism(science when a missionary spreads). After enhancing and claiming the second policy in Piety your missionaries cost 110 faith and can spread 3 times with churches. In the current version (before apostolic tradition gets its nerf) your missionaries will pretty quickly become worth like 600 food and 200-600 science each, while also granting infinite golden age. Way of Pilgrim provides some decent culture but its fairly weak until later in the game.

For the ??? marks pick whatever economic belief best suits your empire (cooperation, mastery, cathedrals, etc). If you really want to spam missionaries you could get veneration, but in my experience it only leads to ridiculousness. This specific version I use with progress but it can work with other trees as well. Progress + ancestor worship works pretty well because ancestor provides a nice early boost to culture. Byz can safely build council first in every city without risking missing key religious beliefs.

Get philosophy early and try to build Oracle. Build temples very quickly in every city, early on each point of faith you earn is worth multiple points of other yields. In general I find two enhancer beliefs is the way to go.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Thanks for the reply! Do you think the Apostolic tradition nerf will change your approach?

 

[CrazyG]

Thanks for the reply! Do you think the Apostolic tradition nerf will change your approach?

No, this will still be really strong. If you can reach 100 global followers then its 100 food and 100 golden age points on each spread. Missionaries spread 3 times, so I'll be spending 110 faith to get 300 food, 300 GAP, and a few hundred science (it varies based on city size).

The nerf is much needed, currently you can grow in your holy city every single turn once the missionaries get going, combined with cooperation the game gets pretty stupid quickly.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Thanks! You mentioned that evangelism's science benefit varies based on the city size. Is that the only variable? Doesn't matter how many followers/cities your religion has or what's the conversion strength of the missionary?

 

[CrazyG]

Thanks! You mentioned that evangelism's science benefit varies based on the city size. Is that the only variable? Doesn't matter how many followers/cities your religion has or what's the conversion strength of the missionary?

I don't know exactly what causes the variance. I saw a correlation between the size of target city and how much I was getting so that is my guess. It might be something like conversion strength or how many you convert

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Thanks!

 

[Funak]

I don't exactly have a go-to strategy, it depends on how I want to play that particular game. I mean Byzantium's greatest strength is its flexibility.

Byzantium is a prime candidate for building a really tall God-King religion but they can also go for 4 religious buildings and Sacred sites, and really anything in between.

 

[CrazyG]

I have been extremely unimpressed with 4 religious buildings + sacred sites every time I tried it. Its a really big investment with a very slow payoff. Effectively your UA becomes something like synogogues or orders, +4 tourism in all cities, and guaranteed belief choices. As a package that just seems really weak compared to other civs

 

[Funak]

I have been extremely unimpressed with 4 religious buildings + sacred sites every time I tried it. Its a really big investment with a very slow payoff. Effectively your UA becomes something like synogogues or orders, +4 tourism in all cities, and guaranteed belief choices. As a package that just seems really weak compared to other civs

3 religious buildings pretty much means you're going to have a ton of extra pressure and a lot of resistance to conversion in all cities following your religion. It doesn't look very strong on paper but it is a real stabilizing force.

That being said I'm not saying that it's a fantastic strategy or anything, but it is A strategy and it works.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Thanks for the replies. I like churches, they make the missionary game much more fun, so it's almost a must for me to take them. They render the need for 3 buildings for pressure a bit less urgent, freeing up a space. So in my current game I'm thinking of god of war (fastest religion for me in my experience) as pantheon, then in the first batch way of the pilgrim (lots of culture and tourism throughout the game), churches (best religious building imho) and pacifism (lower costs for missionaries, lots of happiness (which means more culture)), and when enhancing, I'll take evangelism (lots of science and easier conversion) and one more thing - haven't decided yet. Probably mandirs for growth (I like them for myself, and re: my worry about not helping the AI -> 1 more pop is more valuable for a human player than for the AI, imho, plus bigger follower AI cities means more religious pressure, more culture&tourism from spam-missionary-spreading and more happiness through pacifism). We'll see. Thanks again!

 

[crdvis16]

3 religious buildings pretty much means you're going to have a ton of extra pressure and a lot of resistance to conversion in all cities following your religion. It doesn't look very strong on paper but it is a real stabilizing force.

That being said I'm not saying that it's a fantastic strategy or anything, but it is A strategy and it works.

I haven't tried it in a long time, but I think part of the allure was that you could potentially win the game a lot earlier than is usually possible.

 

[Funak]

I haven't tried it in a long time, but I think part of the allure was that you could potentially win the game a lot earlier than is usually possible.

There are a few benefits from having high tourism with your neighbors besides tourism-victory. Also having a head-start on the tourism game definitely doesn't hurt.

 

[Gokudo01]

With all the changes and nerf to byzantium (uu going to medieval instead of ancient)
Which strategy is the most efficient now ?
Rushing religion or not?
Pantheon strategy? sp possibilities? Religion beliefs ?
give me a piece of your mind

 

[CrazyG]

Pantheon strategy? sp possibilities? Religion beliefs ?
give me a piece of your mind

I think there is a trap of really faith light pantheons or really slow pantheons (like God King). Yes you'll get a religion eventually, but you really want to have enormous amounts of faith. You also having basically no early game benefits, so you'll fall behind if your pantheon isn't doing much early on

The cataphract moving to a knight isn't an outright nerf (and it happened like a year ago). Its great timing for a zealotry warmonger push and you can produce so much faith in medieval

 

[Gokudo01]

I think there is a trap of really faith light pantheons or really slow pantheons (like God King). Yes you'll get a religion eventually, but you really want to have enormous amounts of faith. You also having basically no early game benefits, so you'll fall behind if your pantheon isn't doing much early on

The cataphract moving to a knight isn't an outright nerf (and it happened like a year ago). Its great timing for a zealotry warmonger push and you can produce so much faith in medieval

Ok yet you didnt answer my questions ?

 

[CrazyG]

Ok yet you didnt answer my questions ?

You asked for a piece of my mind, yes?

I don't really understand your questions, Byz wasn't nerfed recently. Pantheons have changed, and I can't claim to know the most efficient but ancestor worship looks really good, so does the quarry one. The sooner the better for religion (don't go God King because you want more faith than that). You have the luxury of building monuments or councils first if you want to (which I usually do) but shrines are still important too. You should try religion quickly just because why wait to get super useful beliefs online. I don't see ar reason any of the strategies already described above wouldn't work anymore, even if a few of the beliefs changed

 

[tu_79]

I've been doing some Byzantium tests recently. My opinion is that strategy changes depending on whether you plan on spreading.

If you're going to spread, to control world congress, and get tourism bonuses for sharing religion, then you really want to found early. One less religion to worry about. Use a couple of founding beliefs, so your neighbors benefit the least.
If you want to get bonuses for spreading, but don't really want to convert your neighborhood (evangelism) then you can wait. More religions, weaker religions.
If you want to keep your religion for yourself, and use your faith points for purchases (Zealotry, buildings, holy sites), then you can have a third building (increase pressure) or an enhancer (saves faith).
Your pantheon also matters. One with a resource only you control is best for spreading.

I've fallen to the trap of going for faith light pantheons, even with a non spreading strategy, it makes early game harder.