When to let go of Stonehenge?

[ZeekLTK]

I find that I have trouble "letting go" of Stonehenge in my games. I tend to always go for it early on and then I find myself avoiding Calendar for as long as possible so that I don't make it obsolete.

I just played a game where I did not acquire Calendar until 1700 AD, because I just couldn't justify losing the free +1 culture in every new city I build or capture!

But this is costing me, because it makes it so that I can't use several resources. In the same game, I had banana, spice, silk, and incense but couldn't get any of them because I didn't have Calendar.

So, I'm basically wondering, what is a good cut off point to go for Calendar? And how do you overcome the loss of the "free culture" that Stonehenge provides?

Like I said above, I just love that aspect. Often my new cities will expand before they have even built their first thing, and I'm struggling to find a point to stop that so that I can get all the resources that require Calendar.

 

[Windsor]

Most of us play Beyond the Sword where Stonehenge doesn't obsolete until Astronomy. Also, once you reach a certain difficulty level you just stop building it altogether since it's way to unreliable and often not even worth the hammers even if you do get it.

But anyway, don't delay calendar because of stonehenge.

 

[Sundowner]

+1 culture per city is almost nothing. Its only real strength is the initial border pop. And monuments are cheap to build, especially later in the game or with slavery. Alternatively, you can use things like religion to accomplish a border pop.

At high difficulty levels you tend to squeeze cities together to share tiles. Attempt to mush your cities up and keep them at lower populations through slavery. Concentrate on getting big yield tiles in the small cross of your cities. The you won't care so much about that monument. Alternatively, try spreading religion (which carries other benefits) and using it to accomplish the same thing for cultural purposes.

You'll quickly lose interest in that wonder.

 

[Tatran]

Also, once you reach a certain difficulty level you just stop building it altogether

And which difficulty level may that be?

 

[pigswill]

Good cut off point for Calendar is as soon as you can trade for it. Any religion gives 1 cpt, it doesn't take long for Stonehenge to become irrelevant. Or just play a Creative leader.

 

[Windsor]

And which difficulty level may that be?

While it's stretching it a bit far, most players will stop building the 'henge almost completely at emperor and above.

 

[Sundowner]

And which difficulty level may that be?

It has been so long since I've played a game under Immortal that I've really forgotten the rules that governed my play back in those days. But at Immortal and Deity the only time I'm tempted to go for SH is when I am someone like Degaulle sitting on stone. And even then I have reservations about wasting time and hammers on it.

 

[babar]

Change the tech at which Stonehenge obsoletes to Astronomy in the XML files.

 

[Kid R]

Not really answering the question, but remember it's only "free culture" if you have more than 4 cities that need a border pop. And even then the opportunity cost of building something so big so early is really significant. The early turns are where maximum efficiency would have you building workers and fogbusters and settlers from the most powerful city, i.e. the capital. Letting secondary cities build their own monuments is actually good delegation.

Settle on stone OK it starts to look a decent deal but even then (BTS) the great wall is more useful.

 

[Silverbow]

While it's stretching it a bit far, most players will stop building the 'henge almost completely at emperor and above.

Not necessarily. I play on Immortal (basically win at Imm & neverending quest for a cheeseless win on deity), and I still build it from time to time. E.g. when I'm not creative and I have both stone and mysticism, there's hardly a reason not to build it - the cost is negligible with stone and/or industrial, and it actually saves hammers and turns compared to monuments. Without stone, mysticism or industrial, it's definitely less appealing, but more so due to research detours than the hammers, which are usually hardly an obstacle anyway.

 

[Manco Capac]

You get the SH when your user name is Obsolete. Otherwise, nevaaa!
I prefer a GScientist.

 

[simishag]

I would note also that the Stonehenge-generated Monuments have significant value to the 9 Charismatic leaders (Monument +1 happiness) and the 3 civs with Monument UB (Egypt, Ethiopia, Native American).

 

[guspasho]

There are several alternatives to Stonehenge. I'm assuming you really only care about that first border pop to secure the second ring?

1) Creative leaders provide free culture
2) Caste system lets any city run artists. Running one artist for a few turns is enough to get that first border pop, way faster than SH can, in fact. Instead of SH, build the Oracle and take Code of Laws as your free tech (make sure you've teched Writing).
3) Having a religion in the city will provide culture just as quickly as SH, found a religion and pre-build roads and you should get auto-spread pretty quickly.
4) Libraries provide culture as well as a beaker multiplier and slots for running scientists. They're more expensive but oftentimes I might find myself skipping monuments since I plan to build an early library in the city.
5) Use the whip for fast monuments or libraries. Settle with with an eye toward getting the food or important hammer resource in your first ring, have a worker ready to improve the resource right away, and whip that monument or library.

That last one is something that you will want to get used to doing anyway. Especially in the early game, I try to have at least 1 worker per city, more if there are forests or jungles to chop or if my populations are simply growing too quickly. Make sure every tile your city works is an improved one. Settling next to food is fastest, settling next to copper or horses will get your monuments built fastest without whipping, and try to avoid settling with all your resources in the second ring.

In games where where most or all of the good city locations entail resources in the second ring only, and you aren't creative, that's when SH might be a decent play.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

The initial border pop from stonehenge is nice, but by the time you get code of laws it really isn't needed. Caste system lets you set the initial person in a new city to be an artist. Music lets build culture.

 

[Kyle Everett]

Only time I really ever consider Stonehenge is those civs that have a monument unique building such as Egypt, Ethiopia, and Native America, or if its a civ where I don't start with Mysticism and I have stone really close by.

 

[Pengu]

Before I built more often. Now I try to get it with only char leaders if my area is food rich or if my starting location has nice commerce.

 

[Funky]

Yeah for charismatic leaders it's kind of cool. But even with stone in the cap there are usually more pressing things to do early on than build a wonder. With De Gaulle, Industrious AND charismatic traits (plus stone) I would probably try for it.

 

[jarhead_leif]

I consider building the stonehenge when I'm not lazy to found a religion.

 

[Kid R]

I would note also that the Stonehenge-generated Monuments have significant value to the 9 Charismatic leaders (Monument +1 happiness) and the 3 civs with Monument UB (Egypt, Ethiopia, Native American).

Only time I really ever consider Stonehenge is those civs that have a monument unique building such as Egypt, Ethiopia, and Native America...

This argument is often trotted out as if it's common sense but where is the sense in it really?

Stonehenge-generated monuments are no better than individually-built ones. Saving 30 on a UU monument is no better than saving 30 on a normal one

 

[ecuwins]

Yeah, Creative Zara really needs his UB