When to switch out of slavery?

Most interesting. And here I am on Emperor (Warlords) trying to expand with settlers if there's nobody in the immediate vicinity.

BTW are you saying you NEVER won with a HA rush at higher levels? Thanks, and Happy Holidays :cool:!

I don't know about lower difficulties. A tip I got from WastinTime though was, to let the AI as much work for me as possible, so if AI would settle that land 'til you got Cuirrassiers, say TY to them because they were so nice to save you the costs of the Settler and because they were so nice to improve the cities for you aswell ^^ .

Regarding the 2nd: Yes, I have never one even one HA-rush on Deity. This is not the fault of the HAs though, but because of the luck I had with units at that time. I once attacked with 12 HAs at sth. like 1800 BC. The defender had 5 Archers in the city, which already is hillarious, he should have had two, but those 5 Archers actually killed 8 of my 12 HAs, so I needed to give up the game. Ofc., it was even a non-Hills-city, it had Walls though.
I could give a similar example with Elepults, but the difference with Elepults is that one, that they're so much stronger, that one doesn't need to give up the game, unless playing for HoF. Elepults are mostly a safe-win, HAs I'd say are something like 50/50 and one will often find cities, that simply are too well defended to take at all, like Hills + Walls cities or everything with LBs. Elepult doesn't get stopped by any of those, that its advantage.
 
If your breakout tech is cuirassiers, it probably makes sense to settle more cities immortal and earlier, just because you have a lot more time to take advantage of those cities due to the slower tech rate. AI also expands much more slowly. However, on lower difficulties you can target even earlier techs and be successful, so that's always something to keep in mind (Cats + almost anything is good enough to break out).

Comparing anything to deity is quite difficult, as the game is so different in almost every aspect.
 
seraiel, you say lib>steel or lib>rifle is a high% win strategy. Are there games where an earlier rush is possible (like just amassing trebs+knights+maces) and waiting for lib would actually decrease your win probability chances, bc even though you got to lib, your neighbors have had enough time to get into a winning position like a super-huge vassal empire or something like that in which case you should have intervened earlier with your knights eg?
 
and another related question, which you probably already answered but i'm still trying to figure out what you mean... Let's say you roll an excellent start, and you have ivory. You also have space for 6-9 quality cities uncontested. Are you immediately focusing on elepult OR are you weighing other factors to decide if you want to wait for lib>steel? (KEEP IN MIND I'm talking about going for win%, not the highest points possible! Thx)
 
1. Knights suck, because Cuirrassiers can be reched in about the same time via bulbings and Lib. Very late, I had a game where I dominated the map with Cataphracts, but my advantage from early on was that great on the map, that also could have dominated with basically every other unit, Mass-Cataphracts were just the fastest way, becuse I got all tech from the AI, couldn't self-tech past Civil-Service because of too many troops etc.. Those are extreme exceptions. In a normal game, when someone is trying to build a merga-vassal-empire, you bribe him to peace and steal the cities of the weakened defender after the mega-civ has lost enough troops. Maybe bribe his also-mega-civ friend from the other side of his empire onto him at the same time, that should stop him from ever becoming dangerous.

And if I got Ivory, I really stop after building 3 cities. Elepults are simple the cheaper way to get larger, better developed cities. I'd maybe think otherwise though, if my only target of choice were Ragnar or Mehmed. Then I'd probably again try to let someone declare war on them, and march into the back of their empire when their troops are gone.

Deciding factor for Lib -> Rifling i. e. is "no Iron" and Steel combines very well with lots of weak 1-move-units, like Axes, Swords, Maces, Elephants etc.., so Lib -> Steel is a powerful option also, when having been very successful at early war. That's a different scenario that I talked of though, I morely talked of using Rifles or Cannons as a breakout weapon, because there's nothing more powerful than mass-drafting Rifles or take anything and add Cannons to it. REXing to 6-9 cities will make it very hard to get Liberalism btw.. It's possible, but really need to be a well trader and make good use of bulbs. Liberalism with 6 cities is much easier, Liberalism with 12 cities I currently don't remember having ever achieved, think 11 was my maximum.

It's imo all about the map and how strong you really are. If you get offered Ivory and wouldn't use it, you'd deny yourself Elepults, and Elepults are while a little more difficult at least as strong as Cuirrassiers but because earlier much better. I think you need to work more on preparing the war. Watch out for happenings i. e., that one Civ declares war on another. Then look, whom both sides could bribe, and gift everyone of them a large techt, so they actually can. BAM, 10 DoW's next turn, world war, GG. Or when you DoW anyone who is your friend, bribe him into Caste, and you'll have 0 problems with reinforcements. And don't forget to save your gold-begs for the war-scenarios. AIs have a high chance to backstab on the 1st turn of war, but 10T later, chances are below 10%. Learn to be in control of the diplo-game on the map, ideally, you mostly backstab targets whom's stacks are far away fighting the ones of others and you don't get DoWed once, because everybody is already fighting, or because you got perfect relations. Things like that are one reason, why I like Oracle so much, because it offers a huge additional tech. That tech can easily be +4 with all Civs or bribe everybody against everybody etc., so even in total war games, I always try to snatch it at about 1800 BC, when I traded all pre-requisuites, looked, found that only 1-2 civs have Priesthood, and then researched Priesthood myself and chop-whipped it in 4-5T, maybe also only 1-2T because I prepared Chops for exatly this opportunity.
 
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