When will traditional chinese characters disappear?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Knows nothing about chinese language (doesn't even have the characters installed) asks: Do the chinese also use text-speak like "u r" and "plz" or is that impossible?

 

[eoc]

This is ShangHai grand theater, have you notice the Chinese characters? It is written in traditional Chinese.

 

[eoc]

Knows nothing about chinese language (doesn't even have the characters installed) asks: Do the chinese also use text-speak like "u r" and "plz" or is that impossible?

It is impossible. You have to write completely a character, which make the character meaningful. While you can simplify it in such as cursive handwriting. Actually, simple Chinese is a another kind of kai handwriting which composed of some cursive handwriting writing method. Traditional Chinese is also called real-kai.

 

[gangleri2001]

My lord of linguist, please teach me Chinese after your Chinese are better than mine.
By the way, do you know Chinese language?

No, I'm not trying to teach you chinese, I'm trying to make a point of way traditional and simplified characters are two different writing systems. Maybe you would have understood what I meant if you could have seen the characters I wrote there. So I'm gonna post it in an image so you can see it.

gangleri2001, I will say sorry to you if you feel I was laughing at you. But I really don't mean it, it is my poor English.
I just want to say, when you really know Chinese language you have to get infused in Chinese culture, then you won't tell those bul(l)sh(i)ts.

No need to appologize. You made a fool of yourself for everyone to see.

I don't suppose the Traditional Chinese script will ever fall out of use for centuries to come. While it is clearly easier to learn Simplified Chinese and the majority of Chinese speakers now use the Simplified script, Traditional Chinese will continue to thrive in every day usage, and not for just literary means.

It will eventually disappear of daily usage. Calligraphers however will keep it alive as long as they have some brushes and inkstones to write them down.

I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that Traditional Chinese in Hong Kong and Taiwan are going to die out anytime soon. The thing is, for Hong Kongers and Taiwanese, the system works. If it is not broken, don't fix it I suppose.

If keeping the current situation of two writing systems for one language doesn't seem nonsensical to you, there's nothing I can do about it. The other language I know where happens exactly the same is Serbo-Croatian, which tells a lot of how crazy this situation is.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It is impossible. You have to write completely a character which make the character meaningful. While you can simplify it in such as cursive handwriting. Actually, simple Chinese is a another kind of kai handwriting which compose of some cursive handwriting writing method.

I see. Thanks

 

[gangleri2001]

This is ShangHai grand theater, have you notice the Chinese characters? It is written in traditional Chinese.

Yeah! That's all evidence we need to make sure that traditionals won't disappear even though all reports say that even scholars are forgeting how to write by hand some characters (!!!) and calligraphers are facing the largest crisis in their history (!!!) due to the increasing usage of computers. Why do we even need to replace strokes? We need more of them!!! [/sarcasm]

 

[eoc]

scholars, huh...
I suggest that if you come to China one day, don't tell others you are a scholar, even if you are a real one.
You know why? Too many many scholars walking on the street, showing on TV, making foolish jokes...the word "scholar" has already become a laughing stroke among folks.

 

[Cheetah]

Don't really know any Chinese yet, though I plan to learn it once I've mastered Japanese and that I will probably learn Simplified Chinese then. (Though would knowing Japanese make it easier for me to understand Traditional Chinese?)

Anyway, I just wanted to inform Gangleri a bit more:

Then you tell me when will the current situation of "one language, two writing systems" will end.

If keeping the current situation of two writing systems for one language doesn't seem nonsensical to you, there's nothing I can do about it. The other language I know where happens exactly the same is Serbo-Croatian, which tells a lot of how crazy this situation is.

In Norway we also have two writing systems. One is called Bokmål ("the book language") and is the most used system. But it is very similar to Danish, so during the end of the 19th century a guy decided to make a new written language based on all Norwegian dialects, which is now refered to as Nynorsk (New Norwegian). They're very similar, only difference is that lots of words are spelled differently and several words are replaced with some widely used dialect word. Each commune decides which system is their prefered system, but everyone still have to learn both at school, and all government information is available in both written languages.

We're less than 5 million people, but still have two written languages. And all computer software that will be used in the government must be available in both languages (so we get two versions of Windows, etc).

It's really stupid (though you'll find at least 20% of Norwegians disagree on that), but there is no way that it will go away yet...

That having both Simplistic and Traditional Chinese is stupid is not a good realistic argument for why there should only be one.

 

[gangleri2001]

scholars, huh...
I suggest that if you come to China one day, don't tell others you are a scholar, even if you are a real one.
You know why? Too many many scholars walking on the street, showing on TV, making foolish jokes...the word "scholar" has already become a laughing stroke among folks.

Sure it's losing its former prestige (the same happened here decades ago), but that doesn't change that even university students and teachers are forgetting how to write by hand more and more characters.

 

[gangleri2001]

Though would knowing Japanese make it easier for me to understand Traditional Chinese?

Yes.

Anyway, I just wanted to inform Gangleri a bit more:
In Norway we also have two writing systems. One is called Bokmål ("the book language") and is the most used system. But it is very similar to Danish, so during the end of the 19th century a guy decided to make a new written language based on all Norwegian dialects, which is now refered to as Nynorsk (New Norwegian). They're very similar, only difference is that lots of words are spelled differently and several words are replaced with some widely used dialect word. Each commune decides which system is their prefered system, but everyone still have to learn both at school, and all government information is available in both written languages.

We're less than 5 million people, but still have two written languages. And all computer software that will be used in the government must be available in both languages (so we get two versions of Windows, etc).

It's really stupid (though you'll find at least 20% of Norwegians disagree on that), but there is no way that it will go away yet...

That having both Simplistic and Traditional Chinese is stupid is not a good realistic argument for why there should only be one.

This analogy fails to see that both Bokmal and Nynorsk use the same alphabet, while traditional and simplified characters are two character sets of at least 8000 characters each (according to the most recent list of simplified characeters) for the same language.

 

[eoc]

Though would knowing Japanese make it easier for me to understand Traditional Chinese?
Yes.

You really misleading him to know traditional Chinese. Though Jap use traditionl Chinese characters, but many of their meaning is so different.

e.g. "丈夫", in Chinese, it means "husband"; while in Jap, it means "male". "男", in Chinese, it means"male"; while in Jap, it means "be a man, don't be bit(ch)"

You really should stop tell others what is right or wrong, my scholar.

 

[Cheetah]

This analogy fails to see that both Bokmal and Nynorsk use the same alphabet, while traditional and simplified characters are two character sets of at least 8000 characters each (according to the most recent list of simplified characeters) for the same language.

It's the same alphabet, but we have to learn at least half a new set of words and their spelling.

In Japanese they use 3+1 different writing systems in a nice mix, but they still only need to learn the sound of the word (and often the corresponding kanji) once.

In Chinese there are two writing systems, each with a "unique" (I'm assuming the charcters for 1, 2, etc are at least similar) set of characters. And mostly you only need to learn one of them.

The systems are different, but similar enough for the analogy.

 

[Cheetah]

You really misleading him to know traditional Chinese. Though Jap use traditionl Chinese characters, but many of their meaning is so different.

e.g. "丈夫", in Chinese, it means "husband"; while in Jap, it means "male". "男", in Chinese, it means"male"; while in Jap, it means "be a man, don't be bit(ch)"

You really should stop tell others what is right or wrong, my scholar.

Actually, I don't know about the Chinese meanings, but my Japanese dictionaries says 丈夫 can mean "hero; manly person; warrior; healthy; robust; strong; solid; durable", and with three different pronunciations (joubu, joufu and masurao). 男 is Japanese is read "otoko" and means man/male...

Husband in Japanese can be written (and read) in several ways btw, depending on level of politeness and context: 壻 and 聟 can mean husband or son-in-law, 愚夫 can also mean husband (but could also mean "foolish man" ), 主 could mean husband/man of the house/owner, etc...




But I'm fully aware that the writing for Chinese characters differs between China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.

 

[eoc]

OK, whatsoever, it is very different from Chinese meaning. I know a little Jap because of I can guess, I have never learnt it.

 

[Snorrius]

Makes sense. But I still don't get how a modern country can exist with a bronze-age writing system (I am so Eurocentric, I know).

Actually alphabet as writing system is bronze-age (too?).

In the Middle Bronze Age an apparently "alphabetic" system known as the Proto-Sinaitic script is thought by some to have been developed in the Sinai peninsula during the 19th century BC, by Canaanite workers in the Egyptian turquoise mines

 

[Yeekim]

I just wondered, if a Chinese guy sees a character he does not know, how would he go looking for it in a dictionary? Is there a system comparable to alphabetic order?

 

[Snorrius]

I just wondered, if a Chinese guy sees a character he does not know, how would he go looking for it in a dictionary? Is there a system comparable to alphabetic order?

No, but there are other means to find a character in question using key (char can be divided in several parts and one of them is "key") and number of strokes.

 

[gangleri2001]

You really misleading him to know traditional Chinese. Though Jap use traditionl Chinese characters, but many of their meaning is so different.

e.g. "丈夫", in Chinese, it means "husband"; while in Jap, it means "male". "男", in Chinese, it means"male"; while in Jap, it means "be a man, don't be bit(ch)"

You really should stop tell others what is right or wrong, my scholar.

All I said is that for someone that knows Japanese, chinese traditional characters are why easier because they already know lots of them.

I just wondered, if a Chinese guy sees a character he does not know, how would he go looking for it in a dictionary? Is there a system comparable to alphabetic order?

You first look for the radical element (or "key" as Snorrius said) in a table that shows you in which page do all characters that have that same radical are. Then you go to that page and look for you character. They are usually ordered by amount of strokes that have been added to said radical. Once you have found it, you'll find in that list the page of the dictionary where you can find the character you're looking for. So for looking for any character in a chinese dictionary you've to look for it in at least three pages (Radical list ---> Character list by radical ---> Dictionary entry).

There're also other methods of organizing chinese dictionaries, such as four corners, but this is the most usual one.

 

[eoc]

There're also other methods of organizing chinese dictionaries, such as four corners, but this is the most usual one.

Amazing, how do you know that method ? Now I believed you did do a lot at studing Characters

 

[Yeekim]

Thanks guys, something new to learn every day...