Where did I go wrong (newbie)?

[eobet]

The last few games I played (with help from this forum), I managed to survive well into the medieval times...

...but this game has me stumped, and the weird reason is because I thought that it went so well!

I began right next to two other small civilizations, so I decided a "merger" was in order and sent armies of warriors their way, managing to "acquire" them both.

Then I built a few new cities (was this wrong?) and began "working" on the next neighbor...

Now things began to go hairy, because I ran out of money and barbarian axemen began invading, wiping out one of my newly settles cities, and I ended up on defense for probably over 50 turns.

Then, god damn Shaka walks in with his new army and wants war, and I haven't managed to finish off that other neighbor yet.

That's when I said screw it, I'm starting over, but let's see what the experts on the forum has to say.

I'm guessing I expanded too aggressively, but as soon as the other civs develop archers, they get extremely difficult to take, imo (even axemen can't do anything about them).

Also, I think I missed the basic tip on how to prevent barbarian axemen for pillaging like crazy? Early in the game you can't afford to have an axeman standing at every grey square, right?

 

[BarbarianArcher]

You let Shaka get too advanced. In this case, you should have some spears and axes ready--you can kill his Impis with axes and his horse archers with spears.

You have horses, but they aren't hooked up. Get them. With them, you have access to chariots. They have a 100% bonus on Axemen, good for those pesky barbs. You can also get Horse Archers if you have HBR.

Oh yeah, and Amsterdam is toast. You can't fight Impis and Harchers with Warriors. Send them out of the city to pillage the corn, abort production of the worker, and run away with your current worker.

 

[Ghpstage]

Militarily your in trobule, but i'm pretty certain it can be saved. First make peace with Willem and don't worry about losing Amsterdam, it can't be saved, just try to save the Worker nearby. Start building some Spears as we know Shaka is using Horse Archers and disband the Warriors sitting in cities defended by Axes, you simply can't afford them.
Also do something with that general, right now he's providing nothing while costing maintenance, I suggest settling in St Petersberg to promote your new Spears.

Economically theres a *much* bigger problem, caused primarily by mismanaging workers and poor tech choices. Ask yourself:
Do you really need to connect pigs to a city that isn't connected to your network? What does Mathematics, Masonry or will Aesthetics do for your economy?
The techs that will get you out of this mess are Alphabet, Monarchy and Sailing.
Alpha will let you buy your way out of war, build research and trade, Monarchy will get your cities growing and Sailing (with some exploration) will set up ivaluable foreign trade routes.

The lack of happiness is hurting, its making your govenors run uinimproved tiles and its preventing growth onto new ones. A small move toward fixing it would be to trade your pigs away to Sitting Bull for his fur, you have no use for health but drastically need .

Use those workers to start spamming riverside cottages and connecting up cities (and horses) on the shortest routes possible.

Also, I think I missed the basic tip on how to prevent barbarian axemen for pillaging like crazy? Early in the game you can't afford to have an axeman standing at every grey square, right?

Spawnbusting is the prefered method but on huge maps its not often going to work.
Aggresive defence is the best fallback, move Axes into defendable terrain hoping barb ones attack yours, attack them in the open with better promoted Axes or better yet, attack with Chariots as they get a huge bonus (You shouldn't have ignored your Horses!).
The last resort is Archery but on noble/huge the odds of you not getting Copper or horses in time is slim to none.

 

[lymond]

Well, you continue to play Huge map despite all the advice not to. You are just setting yourself up for failure playing huge terra maps as a newer player. I really recommend standard maps until you grasp some of the basics.

With that said, on this level I recommend putting more of a priority on Alpha>Maths>Currency. You can build research to get to Currency fast which will improve your economy greatly and allow you to build wealth as needed. Also, get those trade networks setup. You are missing a lot of extra commerce by not connecting your cities. At least you are building enough workers not, but you are still not using them wisely.

I also see very little spawnbusting. I recommend checking out some of TMITs Let's Plays to see how he gets his starts off right. Check his recent Charlemagne or Elizabeth Let's plays from 2 recent forum games you can find below.

 

[Xzylvador]

Money: Looks to me like you're expanding too quickly. Far too quickly. Also, you have too many obsolete units. Looking at the log, a whole army of axemen got erased because you couldn't pay them, but you kept all your warriors? Should've deleted the warriors before you lost the axemen. (Why did you build so many warriors anyways? You had copper pretty quickly... Axemen should've quickly replaced those warriors.)

Empire: BUILD COTTAGES. You have none... they're the most important improvements to build... and you have some ideal locations for them.
Yasodharapura could be size 4 by now, but it's got avoid growth on for some reason... And the area around it has no improvements on them.
Yaroslavl could be a gold mine! Cottage all those floodplains and that city alone could earn enough to keep you out of trouble! But it's not working cottages, instead it's working unimproved tiles. Moskow's working an unimproved farm. A lot of your cities have river tiles... use a few of those for farms (make sure that when you get Civil Service, you can get water to tiles not connected to a river) but build cottages on the rest.
Meanwhile, you've got 8 workers in the south, some put on "automate" building roads you don't need. Do not put workers on automate, ever! Why? Because they build roads. Now, roads are good and eventualy you'll want them everywhere. But do you realise that one of those automated workers (the one on the gold east of St. Petersburg) has seen that Yaroslavl could use a farm on that corn, but instead of going there and building a farm, it builds a road there and only when that's finished it'll start building a farm? So instead of having a farm there in 16 turns if you moved it manually and built, now it'll first spend 24 turns building a road you don't need, so you'll have your farm in 40 turns.

War: Why did you invade the Dutch? They're too far away from you to pay the upkeep of their cities and have nothing you need. You're suffering to even pay your own cities upkeep. Fix that first before expanding/invading. If you do want to war for some reason, raze, don't capture.

Army: In general, looks like you built too many warriors and too few axes. They probably never should've been built in that amount in the first place, but now they're there, they're getting paid the money your Axemen need. Send them to their deaths scouting, or if its urgent, delete them.

Barbarians: Inner line of defense: You're creative, so you're spreading culture automaticly. This is a great thing because it keeps away the fog of war in which the barbarians pop. In games where this isn't the case, make sure to research and build those monuments or to build your cities close enough to eachother that their own line of sight doesn't allow any fog inside your territory. Outer line of defense: Use your units to bust fog of war even further. Put some units (in this case axes) outside your borders, on top of hills and fortify them there. The hills increase their defense and even more important, their line of sight. Now not only will you get less barbarians, you'll see them coming before they're inside your borders and pillaging. Chances are they'll attack your axes (and lose because your axes are on a hill and fortified, meanwhile the axes get XP). Even if they don't, if they're warriors/archers, you axes can take them out. If not, you know they're coming and can send reinforcements.

 

[Ghpstage]

Yasodharapura could be size 4 by now, but it's got avoid growth on for some reason...

I hadn't actually noticed avoid growth being on but it appears its not the only city. This option is simply there to shoot yourself in the foot. Outside of a few little micro tricks the only things it can do is cause damage to your empire, don't use it.

 

[lymond]

^^^this

I used to use that button when I was newer to the game as I was afraid of unhappiness. Then I realized unhappy citizens equal free production with the whip. It's better to adjust your tiles than use that button. Another reason to improve more tiles in the BFC than current citizens. Always have some mines ready to switch onto if needed.

 

[eobet]

Also do something with that general, right now he's providing nothing while costing maintenance, I suggest settling in St Petersberg to promote your new Spears.

I was waiting for the promotion option to appear for my warriors, but I didn't see it, so I figured that until I can see that one of my unit types is eligible for promotion, I wouldn't have any use for the general?

What does Mathematics, Masonry or will Aesthetics do for your economy?

Mathematics was given to me free by a tribal village (or if it was a great scientist, can't remember). Aesthetics was apparently a step in the liberalism beeline (which I admit I haven't read the whole article yet).

Alpha will let you buy your way out of war, build research and trade, Monarchy will get your cities growing and Sailing (with some exploration) will set up ivaluable foreign trade routes.

Sorry, I don't understand. How will Alphabet let me buy my way out of the war?

Well, you continue to play Huge map despite all the advice not to. You are just setting yourself up for failure playing huge terra maps as a newer player. I really recommend standard maps until you grasp some of the basics.

Hehe, this is actually an Earth 2 map this time.

I also see very little spawnbusting. I recommend checking out some of TMITs Let's Plays to see how he gets his starts off right. Check his recent Charlemagne or Elizabeth Let's plays from 2 recent forum games you can find below.

Thank you, that sounds interesting!

Money: Looks to me like you're expanding too quickly. Far too quickly. Also, you have too many obsolete units. Looking at the log, a whole army of axemen got erased because you couldn't pay them, but you kept all your warriors? Should've deleted the warriors before you lost the axemen. (Why did you build so many warriors anyways? You had copper pretty quickly... Axemen should've quickly replaced those warriors.)

So... the game erases the most expensive units first? I thought my warriors would go first. How can I see how much a unit actually costs in upkeep?

Also, I built that many warriors because the copper wasn't connected early on, and I tried to wipe out the neighboring civs. I've also had a constant barbarian invasion like you wouldn't believe! They already got one of my cities.

I hadn't actually noticed avoid growth being on but it appears its not the only city. This option is simply there to shoot yourself in the foot. Outside of a few little micro tricks the only things it can do is cause dmaage to your empire, don't use it.

Yeah, it's the happiness thing. My city sizes are the way they are because I have indeed been whipping out warriors fast, because of the constant barbarian invasion.

Thank you all for your tips yet again!

I had no idea that cottages were important this early on! But of course I should have realized that when my army sucked up all my money.

 

[BarbarianArcher]

I was waiting for the promotion option to appear for my warriors, but I didn't see it, so I figured that until I can see that one of my unit types is eligible for promotion, I wouldn't have any use for the general?
Attach the general to a unit, and the gen spreads 20 exp over the entire stack.
Its better to use it for a super medic. Attach a gen to a scout/explorer/obsolete fast unit. Give it combat 1, Medic 1, Medic 2, Medic 3, and March.


Mathematics was given to me free by a tribal village (or if it was a great scientist, can't remember). Aesthetics was apparently a step in the liberalism beeline (which I admit I haven't read the whole article yet).
Lib is far away. While Aesthetics is good for tech trading, you don't have Alphabet.

Sorry, I don't understand. How will Alphabet let me buy my way out of the war?
You can trade techs and build research. It got me out of a mess once.

Hehe, this is actually an Earth 2 map this time.


Thank you, that sounds interesting!


So... the game erases the most expensive units first? I thought my warriors would go first. How can I see how much a unit actually costs in upkeep?


Also, I built that many warriors because the copper wasn't connected early on, and I tried to wipe out the neighboring civs. I've also had a constant barbarian invasion like you wouldn't believe! They already got one of my cities.
You should have tried to get it connected earlier. Maybe it's a good thing they stole your city, reduces upkeep.

Yeah, it's the happiness thing. My city sizes are the way they are because I have indeed been whipping out warriors fast, because of the constant barbarian invasion.
Axes, not warriors.
Thank you all for your tips yet again!

I had no idea that cottages were important this early on! But of course I should have realized that when my army sucked up all my money.

Comments in bold.

 

[Ghpstage]

I was waiting for the promotion option to appear for my warriors, but I didn't see it, so I figured that until I can see that one of my unit types is eligible for promotion, I wouldn't have any use for the general?

The promotion option is alrewady there, its the button with the tooltip 'Lead troops as warlord'. What it does is attach the general to a unit (i'm not sure how he chooses, probably the best one in the stack) and divides up 20xp between all units on the tile. If you really want to do it to give a warrior 20xp its best to stick the general and the unit you want on a tile with no other units on it.
However unless your creating a super medic settling him in a city producing units will be hugely more beneficial.

Mathematics was given to me free by a tribal village (or if it was a great scientist, can't remember). Aesthetics was apparently a step in the liberalism beeline (which I admit I haven't read the whole article yet)

It was a scientist.
Its important to note that by using the scientist to 'bulb' the tech you didn't get it for free, not by a long shot. Great people both cost and are able to have a dramatic efect when used right but offer very little when their use isn't thought through. I probably would have settled your first GS to get some exra to research techs you actually need!

Aesthetics is popular at high levels as AIs usually go for Iron Working, Alphabet and Mathematics before it, and this makes it very valuable for trading for these techs. But this is only really at Emperor, Immortal and Deity.

Sorry, I don't understand. How will Alphabet let me buy my way out of the war?

It allows you to trade techs and those techs can be traded to Shaka for a peace treaty, at least if you manage to hold him off long enough that you have Alphabet and he will talk.

 

[lymond]

Yeah...ha....don't bulb Mathematics. The first optimal GS bulb is Philo. If you get other GPs there are other optimal bulbs like Theo with a Great Prophet (only if you get the religion), Machinery with an GE, but I would usually use him on a wonder (it's great for the Chinese though), CS for a GM but a trade mission might be better. Great Artists I usually save for Golden Ages so I don't know what an optimal bulb would be although on higher levels Drama can pay off even though the beaker differential is a loss. General with the first GS, which you should try to get asap, either create an academy in your cap or settle it there. I generally prefer academies since they payoff better in the long run.

Great Generals - If you are warring a lot early and Charismatic it may be best to settle it in our unit pump city. Otherwise, create a super medic out of 1 unit. (Not sure what you are referring to about waiting for a unit to be promo eligible - attaching the GG provides the unit tons of XP to promo right away) I prefer fast units like chariots for super medics. Promote to medic III and give it non-combat promos like Mobility so it can escape if needed, although the unit should be heavily defended by a stack. If you don't have horses, try getting a warrior to Woody II or III early and make it a supermedic. Woody III promo provides a healing bonus to units that stacks with the Medic promos. Scouts are another option, but I rarely have any available and I don't build them.

 

[eobet]

Cool, thank you for the clarifications.

I started over on the same map now, and regarding avoiding war, this is the second time in a game where I marched my best unit across the map in order to take over a barbarian city, only to have the AI steal it the very turn my unit arrived!

However, it was the puny french, so I promptly clobbered his surviving army on the head and said "thanks for doing all the dirty work for me, but my units stationed around that city really should have given you a clue as to my intentions"...

...but he didn't take it lightly and now refuses to speak with me. How can I make peace with him?

(New game attached. Still trying the liberalism beeline, but I probably missed a few things!)

 

[lymond]

Well, you've expanded quite nicely and have hooked up your trade routes which is a big improvement. You can see that your economy is in much better shape. So:

1) Why isn't all the food improved in Moscow. Keep it growing. Trade resources. Sitting Butt has a nice pile of furs to offer you so that you can grow your cities.

2) Use slavery

3) Build more workers. Moscow could pump them out quick if you had the city improved. All those food resources should be improved FIRST thing. Food is the most important resource in the game.

4) Try to get up at least one coastal city early. You have that fish/corn in the south wasted. Coastal city will give you more trade routes and more lucrative ones. It will connect you to AIs that you currently are not connected too

5) By now, Moscow should have a granary

6) You are putting cottages down on non-riverside plains tiles in Moscow, yet you haven't mined the grassland hill. Grassland hill mines are one of the best non-special improvements. In fact I see a lot of cottages plains tiles in cities with lots of riverside grassland. Those tiles should get improved first if you are making these commerce cities. Really bizarre really

7) You should have Monarchy by now and be in Hereditary Rule. Find a way to get it either by teching it or trading for it. You are missing out on a lot of growth. Growth equals power

8) I would at least go for Oracle here on Noble. It's fine to try to play without wonder whoring -it is actually a good way to learn, but it makes sense to get Oracle here. You could try an Oracle>CS slingshot.

9) You really need work on city specialization. I see none of it here. Set some cities as strictly production cities - there are none here but there are several with the potential. These cities should be farmed and mined, and hammer resources like copper/iron/horse/phants help too. These cities will either pump units or be a wonder factory.

In summary, besides my oft commented advice of playing standard maps while learning, I really suggest that you fire up a shadow game and play in much shorter turnsets so you can get some more directed advice. It will really help you. I see some improvement but there is still quite a bit of work to do with your game.

Edit: Why is your slider at 80% with 500+ gold?

 

[eobet]

I guess what I did wrong was not to go for monarchy then (that's military equals happiness, right?) because Moscow looks the way it does because I didn't want unhappiness in the city, and I needed money earlier.

I'm trying for the great library right now... after that monarchy, and I'll look into what oracle does. Then resume the quest for liberalism, I guess.

I should probably stop playing now, though, as I've got work to do!


EDIT: Almost forgot, no tips on how to deal with the French who took "my" barbarian city, which I then "liberated" from them?

 

[lymond]

Oh..and the market build in Moscow is as a bit silly....no point to it

As mentioned, there's at least 1 happy resource to be had, but Moscow hasn't been growing. Grow the city and whip unhappy citizens into workers are important building or run scientists to curb growth. Regardless of the way you "think" Moscow should be, those food resources should be improved.

French - Well, you have to wait until they talk to you first which may take a few turns. Given that I assume you killed several of their units, they will probably not only grant peace but give you a tech or two if you power is decent. If not, give them a cheap tech should work or some gold. You just have to wait out the 'refuse to talk" period.

 

[eobet]

Cool, thanks!

Scientists to curb growth, I didn't think of that!

Btw, that fur from Sitting Bull... he's under siege from two nations, and I did trade it with him until they asked me to stop... I'm trying to keep everyone around me happy now, so that's why I had to stop trading with him.

 

[lymond]

It seemed like the trade should be available again with SB. Otherwise, I don't think you can even see his resources. I may be wrong. If it is available, I would go ahead and make the trade. Trading resources usually doesn't incur a penalty as long as you've known the AIs a while.

 

[eobet]

So, against better judgement, I continued playing...

...and totally messed up the great library, national epic combo... I bloody built the epic in a different city (and yeah, non specialized as I haven't really learned that yet)...

...eh... can I tear down that national epic and rebuild it in the city with the great library, or should I just wait until I can get Oxford for research in that city?

 

[lymond]

No...you can't tear down a building. Not sure what these 2 cities look like but NE does not always have to go where the Great Library is. As long as the NE is in a nice high food GP farm then it is fine. I often build TGL in a high production city anyway like the cap just to make sure I get it. I might build it in my GP farm if I feel I have the luxury to do so.

If you build the NE is a bizarre low food city or non-wonder whore city then that is pretty bad.

So, against better judgement, I continued playing...

why? You seem to be in good shape and the game looks very winnable as long as you do the right things. Only issue is it being a huge map.

 

[eobet]

why? You seem to be in good shape and the game looks very winnable as long as you do the right things. Only issue is it being a huge map.

I should be working instead.

Latest progression attached. I really want to get that Egyptian city on my east border. I'm also annoyed by the Sumerian city beyond that (he got it razed by the Sulus once, but then rebuilt it, sight).