Where to buils SoZ?

Vote for all the options you agree with!

  • If Fanatazuma does not build SoZ, it should build a Temple.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • If Fanatazuma does not build SoZ, it should build something specified in this thread.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • If Thunder Falls does not build SoZ, it should build a JT.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • If Thunder Falls does not build SoZ, it should build a Temple.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Let Fanatazuma build something specified in this thread, and then start SoZ.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Let Thunder Falls build something specified in this thread, and then start SoZ.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7

Cheetah

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This is the final poll I hope. I have still not seen anything to akots numbers, something that I really would like to. But we have been holding this save for a day soon, and we'll probably hold it a little tomorrow as well.

I don't want us to hold it much longer than that, so I've put up this poll.
It's a multi-choice poll, so vote for every option you agree with.

I hope akots gets time enough to check and present his numbers during this poll, so it might be wise to hold your vote for a while. Matrix and anyone else who has some strong calculations for something, should also present them here!

We will have a total of 4 Workers in 2 turns.

Edit: I'll send out the newest save as well, so anyone who wish may take a look at it.
 
After looking at the save for some time now, this is my proposal:

Let Fanatazuma build a JT, and let TF build a Settler. Both will be completed till next turn. Then let Thunder Falls build whatever we wish, and let Fanatazuma build SoZ. Don't join any workers in and we will have it at least within 29 turns. Probably earlier, since the city will grow.

C3B seems quite friendly now, and therefore I believe it is ok with SoZ within 30 turns. This will allow us to get a veteran JT and a Settler very soon. There are other things to prioritice in addition to SoZ, that is Expansion! C3B have 5 or 6 cities by now, we need more cities ourselves!
 
That way we'll have SoZ later anyway. The whole idea of building SoZ in Fanatazuma is to get the SoZ as soon as possible!

But I'm against joining workers to any of the two cities. That is just too much of a waste of those workers. We need population! We need to expand! We're still that early in the game in fact...
 
I'm currently looking at the save with the calculator and calculating. There are many options in the poll and some of them are not optimal. I'll try to stick to the optimal options while analyzing.
 
OK, here's the numbers.

Capital now at 29s. Need 200 total making 7spt now. Growth in 7 turns, so during these 7 turns capital would make 49 s. Then, we need another MP to let it grow to size 5 and it would make 8 spt working mined grassland (tobacco) and growing in 10 turns for total 80 s. Then, it would grow to size 6 and we increase the luxury rate to 20% to make population 6 for 5 turns. So, total build time for SoZ in this case is 7+10+5=22 turns from this turn. Then, capital can make settler in 4 turns and get back to size 5 or continue to grow to size 7 while we build temple there.

TF is more complicated. The problem is that corruption there is not known exactly. I had to approximate it to at least 15%. Hence, out of 4 shields, one is lost but next one is lost only after 10 shields, so that the city can make 9 spt actually making 11 spt with 2 s lost to corruption.

Off-topic. Zoi might use a granary. Also, Ryttyla is building worker ready in 2 but growth is only in 3. Why worker then? We have plenty of improved tiles around TF. Zoi also needs another MP for happiness control. Where are all our warriors? Why TF has both plains irrigated whereas they should have been mined? Too many questions and not enough answers.

OK, back to TF. It is size 3 next turn. I’ll simplify the analysis and join worker immediately. Another worker from Zoi would come and mine the plains and worker from capital would come and mine some BG. This puts TF at 5 spt until the next worker and new MP should arrive from the capital. Zoi makes settler in 3 turns and worker (to join TF) in another 3, meanwhile TF would grow by itself. Calculations show that it would become size 6 in about 7 turns (apparently 7 or 8 shields) and in another 4 turns size 7. Assuming the plains are mined then, this gives 11 shields in the end. (Somebody, please, verify: 2 mined plains and BG for 6 (3 tiles) and 4 mined grassland for 4 shields and city tile for 11 making 9 spt in 14 turns from now. TF now is at 27s, for next 14 turns average would be 6spt (84s total) and then 9 spt for 10 turns which gives us SoZ there in 24 turns. We can then whip the barracks there. Thus, difference with the capital is 2 turns starting from now.

Now, lets consider other aspects. We need some longer luxury rate to run at 20-30% for TF (by 5 turns) and 2 workers as well. Why then TF, looks like waste. On the contrary because our capital would be producing something useful during this time including veteran military and settlers and TF would not be a waste also because being a large city, it would boost our research. TF also has many improved tiles.

I’ve also given a good thought of my retirement promise but since the poll is different and that one where I promised was undecided, I’m thinking of staying in any case. Looks like the part of the argument is about nothing and it is similar whether build SoZ in TF or the capital. Still, I voted for TF and am inclined to believe that it is the best possibility for us. This may we can keep military parity with C3B during building the SoZ. Whereas in another case, we would not be able to maintain that high build rate of military and C3B would know that we were weak at a certain point.
 
I still feel it would be very expensive to join all the Workers into Thunder Falls. And mining 6 tiles will take some time and Workers as well. Could we do this without joining Workers and thus getting SoZ a little later, but without sacrificing all our Workers? This would still leave Fanatazuma to build other things.

I just don't feel we are rich enough for the kind of project you suggests akots.

How about we join the Worker closest to TF now, that leaves us with 30 shields done and 5 in production. By using the Settler from Zoi to settle near TF, we get access to more plains. Mine one of the plains and we get 7 shields in production in 7 turns. Then we will have 65 shields done and 135 to go. Within the next 10 turns of that we will get 70 more shields, which leaves us at 65 shields. Then TF grows again and we will have at least 8 shields in production. This will be completed in 8 turns. That is no more than 25 turns and with only 1 Worker joined to TF!

In the meantime Fanatazuma completes the JT it works on now, builds a Settler and probably another military unit after that. Zoi completes the Settler it builds now and settle near TF while Fanatazumas Settler settle near the landbridge.

Will this be ok?

Oh, and with MM Rattylä will grow in 2 and complete Worker in 2.
 
Ok, I'd really like to get on with this, but I'll wait a bit longer. There has come a very interesting letter from C3B! :D

Is there anyone who objects heavily to the plan I stated two posts up? If not I think I will play the save that way.
 
Yes, it might be an option. I have optimized the production for the fastest route. Then, if we join only a single worker and mine one plain tile, it would have taken longer but we would not need to bump luxury rate to 30%.

Building SoZ in the capital would be even more expensive.

The capital might build warriors/spearmen for military police and upgrade.
 
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