Where'd the 3.13 change list thread go?

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I think a lot of ppl should remember one thing and act accordingly.

What goes around, comes around.
 
IIRC, it was "the patch is done and on it's way to Take Two for testing."

I'm afraid you do not recall correctly, it was only said to be done but not released this week as hoped. HAD it been what you said, then there wouldn't have been a problem (or at least so small a problem that it would fall within the margin of trolling ;) ).
 
honestly, it seems that the folks that want to complain have gotten "too big for their britches".
its just a game, folks. you can wait. trust me!

if you cant wait, there is something wrong with your life other than a patch not coming out for a video game.

ive been playing Civ since Civ2, and i dont feel that sid & co. are beholden to me to provide patches. the game functions without patch 3.13, right? ok then.

sit tight, stop being rude to firaxis staff, and enjoy life. it is much too short to sit here complaining.

No one is being rude to Firaxis. What is occuring is people point out flaws in the process that has taken place for the release of the patch/changelog and people can't seem to handle any criticisms of the way alexman/Firaxis/Take2 have gone about this process. Well, the only way for them to know that customers haven't liked the way they have acted is by the customers voicing their concerns

I think a lot of ppl should remember one thing and act accordingly.

What goes around, comes around.

Exactly, if Firaxis treats their players like crap, expect a much higher number of people to illegally get the game rather than buying it.
 
No one is being rude to Firaxis. What is occuring is people point out flaws in the process that has taken place for the release of the patch/changelog and people can't seem to handle any criticisms of the way alexman/Firaxis/Take2 have gone about this process. Well, the only way for them to know that customers haven't liked the way they have acted is by the customers voicing their concerns
Many posters were aggresive and rude towards Firaxis and Alexman as their proxy. You may feel that justified. But consider who loses as a result of this behaviour.

Is Firaxis poor at communicating with the bulletin boards? Yes, although it's so much better that it ever was in the past. The probable reason is, they aren't marketing experts, they're game designers and programmers. Will this hurt the commercially? Possibly, although less than people think.

People getting up on a high horse and loudly proclaiming supposed "legal" rights are missing the point. If you don't like the way Firaxis behaves, don't buy their games. If enough people do that, thwy will take a commercial hit and need to change their behaviour. But that's a commercial decision for Firaxis to make. If they make the wrong call, they lose out financially, so they'll pay for their mistakes.

But all the agressive posting accomplishes is to scare Firaxis off from dipping a toe in the water. It's apparent that they would have to employ someone fulltime to meet the expectations so aggressively asserted in this thread. That's probably not worth it commercially. And the lesson they will take from this is that giving a bit of info is worse then giving none, so they'll disengage entirely.

Think about it. Perhaps you're right. Perhaps Firaxis should communicate better. But the attitude of posters here isn't going to push Firaxis in that direction at all. Instead, it's chased them away. Perhaps they will lose financially as a result. But for sure everyone on this forum loses out from less ocntact with the developers.

So even if you a convinced of the righteousness of your cause, that's not enough. You have to work with people, not just shout at them. Welcome Firaxians in, let them see there's nothing to fear, and you might achieve the better communication you crave.
 
Many posters were aggresive and rude towards Firaxis and Alexman as their proxy. You may feel that justified. But consider who loses as a result of this behaviour.

Is Firaxis poor at communicating with the bulletin boards? Yes, although it's so much better that it ever was in the past. The probable reason is, they aren't marketing experts, they're game designers and programmers. Will this hurt the commercially? Possibly, although less than people think.

People getting up on a high horse and loudly proclaiming supposed "legal" rights are missing the point. If you don't like the way Firaxis behaves, don't buy their games. If enough people do that, thwy will take a commercial hit and need to change their behaviour. But that's a commercial decision for Firaxis to make. If they make the wrong call, they lose out financially, so they'll pay for their mistakes.

But all the agressive posting accomplishes is to scare Firaxis off from dipping a toe in the water. It's apparent that they would have to employ someone fulltime to meet the expectations so aggressively asserted in this thread. That's probably not worth it commercially. And the lesson they will take from this is that giving a bit of info is worse then giving none, so they'll disengage entirely.

Think about it. Perhaps you're right. Perhaps Firaxis should communicate better. But the attitude of posters here isn't going to push Firaxis in that direction at all. Instead, it's chased them away. Perhaps they will lose financially as a result. But for sure everyone on this forum loses out from less ocntact with the developers.

So even if you a convinced of the righteousness of your cause, that's not enough. You have to work with people, not just shout at them. Welcome Firaxians in, let them see there's nothing to fear, and you might achieve the better communication you crave.

Best post in this thread, and one of the best(if not the best) post about this subject.

Thanks.
 
Many posters were aggresive and rude towards Firaxis and Alexman as their proxy. You may feel that justified. But consider who loses as a result of this behaviour.

I cannot recall any rudeness as such, but am willing to be shown otherwise.

Is Firaxis poor at communicating with the bulletin boards? Yes, although it's so much better that it ever was in the past. The probable reason is, they aren't marketing experts, they're game designers and programmers. Will this hurt the commercially? Possibly, although less than people think.

You don't need to be a marketing expert to realise that telling the fans of the game a patch is imminent and no mention of a delay to the fans is going to cause frustration from many.

People getting up on a high horse and loudly proclaiming supposed "legal" rights are missing the point. If you don't like the way Firaxis behaves, don't buy their games. If enough people do that, thwy will take a commercial hit and need to change their behaviour. But that's a commercial decision for Firaxis to make. If they make the wrong call, they lose out financially, so they'll pay for their mistakes.

I definately don't remember anyone claiming Firaxis had a legal obligation to do anything regarding patches.

But all the agressive posting accomplishes is to scare Firaxis off from dipping a toe in the water. It's apparent that they would have to employ someone fulltime to meet the expectations so aggressively asserted in this thread. That's probably not worth it commercially. And the lesson they will take from this is that giving a bit of info is worse then giving none, so they'll disengage entirely.

Most of the aggressive posting was towards the trolling fanboys who kept antagonising anyone that didn't agree with Firaxis' way of going about this situation which has been rather poor.

Think about it. Perhaps you're right. Perhaps Firaxis should communicate better. But the attitude of posters here isn't going to push Firaxis in that direction at all. Instead, it's chased them away. Perhaps they will lose financially as a result. But for sure everyone on this forum loses out from less ocntact with the developers.

Unfortunately this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, with both camps getting more annoyed with the other.

So even if you a convinced of the righteousness of your cause, that's not enough. You have to work with people, not just shout at them. Welcome Firaxians in, let them see there's nothing to fear, and you might achieve the better communication you crave.

Better communication at CFC would've prevented any problems, but Firaxis chose to ignore the community for over 2 weeks, including at least a week where everyone was just excited that a patch was coming. They chose not to give us an update after a time they specified it would be released had passed without the patch.
 
Another stupid question from me ( I know nothing about the "world" of game ... and "gamers", especially in a north american market):

I had the feeling that a company was producing (Fireaxis) and another company (Take2) was hired for marketing the product and distributing it.
If it is correct (and maybe I am not...), Is not it the work of the publisher to bring marketing expertise to a client and sustain the contact with the public rather than the producer?
After all, each hour a technician spend browsing internet for reading and answering feelings in various web sites - and civfanatics is not more important than any other smaller web sites and in other languages than English ...- is less time for producing actual work, is not it?
 
Better communication at CFC would've prevented any problems

the only problems caused out of all this is to the cfc community, which now wont get kept in the loop
 
Some information is better than no information, yes. But that may not be the case if the given information is, and I mean no offence to Firaxis or any of it's employees, inaccurate. By that I mean inaccurate at the time, not interpreted with the benefit of hindsight. Or if it is inaccurate, by a mishap or by events unfolding differently than expected, a clarification/update would have been desirable.
 
i dont think they were changing the phalanx. the changelist is on the first page of this thread if you want to check :)
 
for the last time, firaxis never specified when the patch would be out. if you want to read into what was said by alexman, thats your choice...but you will be barking up the wrong tree.

its a freakin video game. enjoy it as it is. alexman was kind enough to give a sneak preview of what firaxis was working on, and you have the audacity to be upset that they dont operate on your percieved schedule?
childish.

again, they arent under any obligation to patch anything, so just enjoy what you have, and be happy alexman said anything at all...why is this so hard to understand?
 
for the last time, firaxis never specified when the patch would be out. if you want to read into what was said by alexman, thats your choice...but you will be barking up the wrong tree.

its a freakin video game. enjoy it as it is. alexman was kind enough to give a sneak preview of what firaxis was working on, and you have the audacity to be upset that they dont operate on your percieved schedule?
childish.

again, they arent under any obligation to patch anything, so just enjoy what you have, and be happy alexman said anything at all...why is this so hard to understand?


I agree it was nice to have a sneak preview of what Firaxis are up to with the patch and I personnaly don't care if the patch takes a week or a month longer.

But on the other hand the patch has to come... how can you say that they do not have the obligation to patch anything? Every game developer, especially big time ones are obliged to provide after sales service!

And yes it is a freaking video game and this forum is about this freaking video game.
 
Another stupid question from me ( I know nothing about the "world" of game ... and "gamers", especially in a north american market):

I had the feeling that a company was producing (Fireaxis) and another company (Take2) was hired for marketing the product and distributing it.
If it is correct (and maybe I am not...), Is not it the work of the publisher to bring marketing expertise to a client and sustain the contact with the public rather than the producer?
After all, each hour a technician spend browsing internet for reading and answering feelings in various web sites - and civfanatics is not more important than any other smaller web sites and in other languages than English ...- is less time for producing actual work, is not it?
Well, it is more complicated since Take2 owns Firaxis so for all purposes it is the same company. But still Firaxis is doing the design and programming and Take is doing the marketing and tech support and what not and take2 is not necessarily active in the tech support part and marketing seems to end after the release of a game for them...
Also: for Civilization Take2/Firaxis specifically links to this forum for Tech Support so basically they outsourced their tech support for this game to the posters in this forum - so I do expect them to treat this forum and the posters here with more respect then other forums. This does cut both ways though and unfortunately the flaming in the other thread did prevent any meaningful discussion about the legitimate criticism that quite a few people have of Firaxis/Take2 (do not misunderstand me here - Alexman IMHO did a good job in his feedback on the patch all along, he made some communications mistakes in this particular thread, but he is after all not a programming robot but a human (I believe ;)) - so to :hammer: him was extremely unwarranted and people should have rather posted whatever gripes they have in a much much more civil manner).
 
I'm afraid you do not recall correctly, it was only said to be done but not released this week as hoped. HAD it been what you said, then there wouldn't have been a problem (or at least so small a problem that it would fall within the margin of trolling ;) ).

It probably depends if you read only his newest post in isolation or take previous posts into account, like
this slightly older post from alexman:

Hey guys, we're basically done with the patch. You'll get it as soon as we can test it. I would guess about 3 weeks.

But I must confess, I kind of lost track over the muddled mess the patch notes thread had become.

So, it's tuesday. Where's that frickin' patch? ;)
 
C'mon grumbler ! Let's honorate your avatar asking for a tremendous sub power inside 3.13.....we want u-boats.....we want modern subs with their power doubled and they could also carry dozens of missiles , let's conquer the World !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
 
Thanks Methos and/or Igloodude for restoring the original thread after I pointed out there was a lot of stuff that was posted to it in first few weeks that I'd like to go back to when patch comes out.

On that note, FWIW I don't see the same merit in anything posted to this thread yet. If it comes to it (things remain out of hand) there's no reason not to blow this one away.
 
I just want the PATCH PLEASE!!!!
 
Well, it is more complicated since Take2 owns Firaxis ...
Ooops! I did not know!:mischief:

(...) for Civilization Take2/Firaxis specifically links to this forum for Tech Support so basically they outsourced their tech support for this game to the posters in this forum (...)
... and I am also discovering this! :undecide:

Thank you for your answer Ori, it does show me another light, or perhaps more darkness as I feel a bit confused about what I should think now.
In the doubt I rather prefer to retire from this thread and use my little spare time to play a game of Civ (I have just discovered FFH mod, and it is really a beautiful job) or Oblivion waiting for the cherry on the cake called 3.13...;)
 
It's apparent that they would have to employ someone fulltime to meet the expectations so aggressively asserted in this thread. That's probably not worth it commercially.

Now I'm not going to comment at all on the alexman/3.13 patch fiasco (God knows there's already been more than enough commentary on that), but I will have to call BS on this statement.

Presumably, at any one time, there is at least one person at Firaxis - a director or coordinator - who knows what the current status of the most recent patch is. All that would be required would be for this person (or their administrative assistant) to type 1 or 2 sentences a week to communicate this status. How long would it take you to do this? For me, it would take less than a minute. A week. I don't see a requirement for an additional full-time (or even part-time) position at Firaxis to handle this simple, basic PR duty.

They wouldn't even have to sully themselves by coming to our bawdy forum. They could simply post them as news items at firaxis.com, on the main page or in the Support section. They are already one of the only game companies I've encountered that doesn't support their own forum (even the hated EA does this much). The least they could do is spend a minute a week keeping their customers in the loop. If they can't even be bothered to do this much, then I think that they (Firaxis, NOT alexman) are entirely deserving of our withering scorn.
 
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