TheSpaceCowboy
The Gangster of Love
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2013
- Messages
- 305
As a disclaimer, I'm not sure that any historical individual was too evil to necessarily merit exclusion from the Civilization franchise. I'd not take offence to Hitler leading Germany in some future installment of the franchise, and I've suggested Leopold II as the Leader of a potential Belgium civilization. However, it's currently the case that Firaxis gives weighted preference to individuals who are not currently remembered or regarded as evil. This thread is a thought exercise to debate whether their metrics line up with each of ours. If we were to decide that some individuals were to evil to be Leaders, how would we rank potential candidates and where would we draw the line between inclusion and exclusion?
Also, we're only considering deceased individuals. While some of the worst dictators in human history are surely reigning today, Firaxis would never include a living person, so they're beyond the scope of our consideration.
My own rankings take into account two differing definitions of evil. The first is deontological. Did they violate an aspect of the Natural Law, particularly by depriving others of life or liberty. Mass murderers and dictators are guilty according to these charges. The second is consequentialist. How did their actions affect posterity? Did they turn a republic into a dictatorship? Did they destroy the hallmarks of civilization (by burning books and destroying art and artifacts and architecture) and leave nothing equivalent in their wake? Is the world still suffering for their actions? All these questions will factor into my own considerations.
That said, here's my rankings:
I'm sure there are many more individuals meriting inclusion somewhere in these rankings, but those are a few that jumped out at me most immediately. I'm not sure where I'd draw the line. Obviously one would want to include Attila merely because the Huns were so instrumental in the fall of the Roman Empire, but at the same time it'd be plainly loathsome to include the likes of even Castro or Mussolini.
Also, we're only considering deceased individuals. While some of the worst dictators in human history are surely reigning today, Firaxis would never include a living person, so they're beyond the scope of our consideration.
My own rankings take into account two differing definitions of evil. The first is deontological. Did they violate an aspect of the Natural Law, particularly by depriving others of life or liberty. Mass murderers and dictators are guilty according to these charges. The second is consequentialist. How did their actions affect posterity? Did they turn a republic into a dictatorship? Did they destroy the hallmarks of civilization (by burning books and destroying art and artifacts and architecture) and leave nothing equivalent in their wake? Is the world still suffering for their actions? All these questions will factor into my own considerations.
That said, here's my rankings:
- Mao Zedong - A mass murderer who overthrew a republic and turned it into a communist dictatorship, under the heal of which over a billion people still suffer directly and through whose influence others outside of China are deprived of their Rights
- Attila the Hun - a nomadic warlord responsible for much of the ruin which befell the Roman civilization
- Genghis Khan - a nomadic warlord and mass rapist responsible for much ruin throughout the Occident and Orient
- Joseph Stalin - a mass murderer and communist dictator
- Adolf Hitler - A mass murder who turned a republic into a dictatorship
- Pol Pot - A communist dictator and mass murderer
- Ho Chi Minh - A communist dictator
- Julius Caesar - A mass murderer of the Gauls who turned the Roman Republic into a dictatorship
- Octavius - a gangster who cemented the ruin of the Roman Republic and turned it into a permanent dictatorship
- Caligula - a mad tyrant
- Nero - a matricidal tyrant and religious persecutor who gelded a catamite
- Xerxes - a despot who threatened all of the Occident
- Fidel Castro - a communist revolutionary and dictator who threatened the West with nuclear war
- Benito Mussolini - a fascist dictator
- Theodosius I - a dictator, caesaropapist who normalized governmental interference into theology, and religious persecutor of the pagans
I'm sure there are many more individuals meriting inclusion somewhere in these rankings, but those are a few that jumped out at me most immediately. I'm not sure where I'd draw the line. Obviously one would want to include Attila merely because the Huns were so instrumental in the fall of the Roman Empire, but at the same time it'd be plainly loathsome to include the likes of even Castro or Mussolini.