Which Wonder is absolute must have?

[cabert]

I'll discount National Wonders because you dont have to race to build those, but the World Wonders I always try to build are the Oracle and the Pentagon.

i'll discount world wonders, since a "must have world wonder" would imply that the game is about building this one, and then you win. Since it's not so, i'll only take into account the national wonders.

And even among the national wonders, i must say i've won games without every single one. Ie for each national wonder, i've won a game without it (not meaning i've won a game without any national wonders).
Yet it's been a long time since i could avoid the Heroic Epic.

 

[jerVL/kg]

Now that Representation has been nerfed, hereditary rule is clearly the best civic of the group.

When did Representation get nerfed??

Can't say there's any "must have" Wonder, but the one Wonder I'll build in every game, regardless of strategy, is The Hanging Gardens. A nice +1 boost to pop & health, it becomes available right at the time when initial landgrabs (and early wars) are finished, and it's time to consolidate cities and work on economy. Plus, the AI rarely makes a priority of it, so it's an easy Wonder to get even on high difficulty levels -- and like the Oracle & Taj Mahal, you have to build it yourself to get any benefit.

3 Gorges Dam is my favorite Wonder, mainly because it's so awesome in real life. I'll build 3GD in every game whether I need it or not, heck I even built it on an island once!! (That's where my Ironworks city was, you see.)

Oracle is overrated & a bit of a crutch for some people. (Although I'm having fun with the CS Slingshot recently...)

 

[BadHorsie]

3 Gorges Dam is my favorite Wonder, mainly because it's so awesome in real life. I'll build 3GD in every game whether I need it or not, heck I even built it on an island once!!

I will probably never understand people who make certain actions in computer games because 'in real life' it's cool

...and yes, when did Representation change? I didn't notice.

 

[carl corey]

It was modified in 1.61: medium upkeep (instead of low) and +2 happiness (instead of +3).

 

[Feyd Rautha]

BTW, I just played my first game of Warlords and the synergy between the University of Sankore and the Spiral Minaret is awesome. Once I had both of them built I was researching late Medieval techs in under 10 turns on Marathon and was able to have a 12 city empire run at 100% tech with only a -15 to my treasury.

Very nice.

 

[MqsTout]

I'd disagree with the Pentagon raising in value with Warlords due to Barracks being nerfed ( sigh! ). Now you can no longer get 3-upgrades to all your units in all your cities unless you're Charismatic. No more 2+2+2+4=10.

 

[Mighty Spearman]

I think one of the worst wonders is Chichen Itza. It's quite an investment for a limited window of a bit more extra defence, when you can put walls in vulnerable cities that have much the same effect.

I was all set to agree with you until my last game. Still in the pre-cat days of warring, I'm all set to take out Carthage, I'll take some losses breaking through his capital and it's 60% defense bonus, but I have a solid number of troops, then he completes Chichen Itza... I had no choice but to pull out of the war, the defense bonus was just too much, before I only would've lost maybe half my troops going in, but with the extra 25% it would've taken me nearly twice as many troops to take the city.

Honestly, I like this wonder, it does a nice job of making your cities nerly invincible pre-cats, and the AI rarely uses cats correctly anyway making you pretty damn strong. Plus you get it at COL and it lasts all the way until rifling. It covers nearly 2 eras. I've easily seen my cities with it get a 100% defense bonus.

For me, Pyramids are always big, I'll pick up the Parthenon if I don't feel like war-mongering or am playing with a philisophical civ. Oracle is a bit overrated IMHO, a great person can just as easily give the metal casing slingshot.

Two of the new Warlords Wonders are pretty interesting too, I know it's been said here but the Spiral Minaret and University of Sankore provide great synergy and really make temples rock.

The Great Wall is another cool wonder, for two reasons...
1. It looks cool and at higher difficulties it lets you worker do his job without worrying about a wandering barb slowing things down.

2. It creates Great Engineer points and only costs 250 hammers. That's 200 hammers less than the Pyramids and arguably the greatest benefit of the pyramids (unless you're running a specialist economy and need representation)

/note to self, try building great wall pre-pyramids and see if I can churn out a great engineer to build those giant things for me...

 

[Mighty Spearman]

I'd disagree with the Pentagon raising in value with Warlords due to Barracks being nerfed ( sigh! ). Now you can no longer get 3-upgrades to all your units in all your cities unless you're Charismatic. No more 2+2+2+4=10.

You could use the great general as a specialist, that adds 2exp

 

[MestreLion]

I just finished my 1st Emperor game (Cultural Victory by 1930, it was quite easy actualy), and believe it or not, i didnt build:
- West Point
- Pentagon

Reason? My top unit was an 11XP Horse Archer

 

[shivute]

When non cultural I always try for Stonehenge, great for fat crosses and also for the early priest GP - Good planning of research can get a good tech very early as per Oracle. Its cheap and easy to chop.
I like Oracle too and will chop this as well - the free tech of your choice is powerful at this stage and gives a big boost no matter your strategy and method of play.
Parthenon when philosophical really rocks - with specialists, lots of GPs early when they are really useful and lots of free techs.
I really like the look of the great wall as it is cheap and gets engineering points quickly - early engineer for philosophical civ using specialists can build pyramids and get representation - nuff said.
Statue of liberty is phenomenal if you have a lot of cities - I tend to save an engineer for this.

These 4 are the ones I like to get, I don't really care if I miss out on the rest though colussus is also excellent.

 

[MqsTout]

You could use the great general as a specialist, that adds 2exp

That's only in ONE city. Previously, under vasselage and theocracy, with the pentagon, you could build a barracks in every city to get 3-upgrade units out of any. Now, you're only doing that with mounted units (stables) or in cities with West Point or specialist Generals. Unless you're charismatic. *sigh* That was always my strategy for war, especially when I was in Builder mode -- fewer, more efficiently upgraded units.

 

[StarWorms]

I usually go for Stonehenge, Pyramids and Oracle. Last game though I got the parthenon and the great wall too. I know people have said that the great wall is crap but there were barbarians flooding into my civ (Luckily I was Inca and had Quecchas), it actually turned out to be a great help.

 

[carl corey]

I also usually go for Stonehenge when not creative, but in my last game as Washington (in vanilla cIV) I went directly for Pyramids. No Stonehenge, no Oracle. I didn't have any marble or stone, so I just saved my forrests for the Pyramids and sweated until I finished them.

I have since used the Pyramids for Representation (at first), as I also have the Great Library, then Police state to build up a quick army, then after the war(s) I switched to Universal Suffrage. My merchant from Economics and lots of money from taking cities and from having a small early empire meant that I could couple Slavery and Universal Suffrage to get my new cities up and running in no time.

For these reasons I think the Pyramids are maybe the most important, but they're certainly hard to get. I got lucky as on the other continent I think Kublai Kahn killed an opponent (there's one missing) and the Indians were ruled by Asoka, not Gandhi. I also didn't go with the strategy employed in ALC7, but I might consider it for future games.

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

I religiously build Stonehenge if not Creative, it really takes the pressure of me to get libraries/religions/obelisks in my cities, at a time when I'm mostly building units or other more important units. I can do without the Great Library because two scientists aren't much to support in a city, but I nomally go for it anyway because the AI's tendency to neglect that tech line. I do try often to build most of the wonders but they really do not matter much overall, except when I go for a specialist economy and I miss the Pyramids, at which point I quit the game (I've given up on specialists). Some, like Hanging Gardens and Statue of Liberty, are very nice to have though.

 

[xifeng]

Pyramids is the one. Without it all your cities are working 2 pops less. That's 20-30% difference.

 

[Alistic]

Forges come after Pyramids and even if you did bee-line to Metal Casting, by the time you have reasearched it, built a forge, and got a great engineer, the pyramids would almost always be built, unless you are playing on settler/cheiftan.

Well said and very true.

 

[scottcstoness]

BTW, I just played my first game of Warlords and the synergy between the University of Sankore and the Spiral Minaret is awesome. Once I had both of them built I was researching late Medieval techs in under 10 turns on Marathon and was able to have a 12 city empire run at 100% tech with only a -15 to my treasury.

Very nice.

Yep, Sankore is awesome. You can get paper pretty early, and with Monastery and Temple in every city, that is +4bpt in every city. Add Spiral Minaret and you've got +4gpt too! Get music, and your biggest cities have +6 of each.
Delay scientific method as long as possible (I think that kills the monastery bonuses)...

 

[carl corey]

Forges come after Pyramids and even if you did bee-line to Metal Casting, by the time you have researched it, built a forge, and got a great engineer, the pyramids would almost always be built, unless you are playing on settler/chieftain.

Well said and very true.

think again

It's Sisiutil's game with Frederick on Prince. He build the Oracle for a Metal Casting slingshot, a forge, than the Pyramids. Granted, it takes some pretty hard calculations to do it right, but it's been done. And check out the time of finish too.

 

[Xenocrates]

I like the hanging gardens for that extra pop and health. None are crucial, but every wonder you build is one less for your rivals and less gpp for them to boot! You get the effects of the wonder, the gpp AND you deprive them of the same. It's a double bonus (more than a double bonus if you have several serious rivals). Still, a bunch of military units can do the same thing I guess.....

On the three gorges. If every civ is building it, but you get it first, they will have lots of dough. Researching unpopular techs after you get plastics, such as medicine leads to some very nice profits from tech trading when you scoop up their gold bonus from not getting the dam. + It's really annoying when a civ on a small island gets it.

I've never played MP, but I'd guess that building a wonder, any wonder, is usually signing your own death warrant, right?

 

[moggydave]

With Warlords I think the Great Wall is an awesome wonder. More so for the Great Engineer points rather than the defense (which is a HUGE convienence for me). On earlier difficulty before Warlords I would often build Pyramids for the GE, since I never ran specialist economy. The GW is 200 hammers cheaper, saves you extra hammers and hassle because military is less of concern and using the first GE for Hanging Gardens in the same city is great. Stick Parthenon in another city if possible and lots of GE's. In my recent game with Stalin I had TWO GE's with nothing to do in the medieval era (admitedly I was industrious and had stone) but it was great. An underrated wonder. (perhaps with philosophical leaders you can get Pyramids quicker by using GE from GW, then using next GE for Great Library for specialist econ.)

The only must have wonders are Pyramids, Great Library and SoL when running specialist economy.

Other wonders are great convenience. Uni of Sankore is awesome with Spiral Minaret and Religion whoring (perhaps thats an inappropriate term lol). Stonehenge is useful and Stonehenge+Oracle+religion is good too. Colosus and Great Lighthouse are huge on Archipalego and I always get Three Gorges Dam if I can. Temple of Artemis+Angkor Wat+reglion is useful, better if you somehow slot Pyramids in.

Perhaps Ironworks is the only must have really. Ironworks+Heroic Epic =overkill.



EDIT: Regarding the Great Wall w/Hanging Gardens, HG is so cheap you may not need GE for it anyway.