Which Wonder is absolute must have?

[wioneo]

I usually just stgeal the pyramids. If they are on my continent, that is.

 

[Kalleyao]

It really varies depending on your strategy.

Agree (What more can I say?)

 

[binhthuy71]

Oracle, but I also try for Stonehenge. especially if my leader is Organized and/or I have stone. It's a relatively cheap way (120 hammers) to get effects of an Obelisk (30 hammers) in each of your towns to expand cultural boundaries and gain more access to resources early in the game. Sure, its effects expire with Calendar but, like all Wonders, it keeps on generating its own given CP throughout the game.

Late game, I also try to build Statue of Liberty and if I seem to be edging toward the elusive, for me anyway, Cultural victory I go all out to build the Eiffel Tower.

 

[MestreLion]

Im surprised no one mentioned Taj Mahal. It comes in perfect timing, when you have a lot of cities, most of them above 10+ pop. The Golden Era rewards are huge, and usually AI skips Nationalism for a long time.

Last but not least, i comes around when you have nothing really important to build (besided armies): bank was a long ago, and no other wonder in its era...

 

[MestreLion]

For a simple (yet very innacurate) example, lets say you have a 12 city empire, with an average of 12 pop, half of the tiles having 1 commerce and half 1 hammer. The Golden Era will yeld almost 600 commerce and 600 hammers. Thats a LOT, and i was pretty conservative, btw. One can easily get 1000 or more from both.

 

[Coase]

I don't think of any Wonders as "must have"...in fact, every so often I make a point of not building any (unless they are ridiculously cheap to build--15 turns or less). And most of the Wonders I get only to keep the AI from getting it.

That said, my list of "I'm disappointed if I miss" Wonders would include:

The Parthenon: Great People are great. Getting more = great.
Statue of Liberty: Great benefit that easily pays for itself.
Great Lighthouse: Easily pays for itself.
Three Gorges Dam: This is as close to a must-have as I can think of; production is so important late in the game.
Eiffel Tower: Especially if you manage one of the media Wonders. And, of course, very effective for Charismatic leaders when Warlords comes out...

Other important ones: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Pentagon, and Hagia Sophia, if only because they produce Engineers, and I love engineers. Obviously, things like the Space Elevator and the United Nations are important if going for a specific victory. I would also say that at least one of the media wonders (Hollywood, Broadway, Rock N Roll) is a "must-have"; you can easily convert just one of these into scads of cash and luxuries, so long as you have reasonably prosperous neighbors. I also prefer the Kremlin, but I can see why most people don't.

On my overrated list would be the Oracle (I'm just not buying it; it's good, but it's not that critical unless you're specifically going for a religion-based strategy); the Colossus (it's cheap, but the benefit is minimal); and the Great Library (again, it's nice, but the benefits just aren't *that* significant.)

 

[bassist2119]

Surprised Parthenon didn't make most people's lists. Comes early, doesn't obsolete and gives half the philo- advantage.

Agree w/ Coase, not buying the value of Oracle.

Also not buying the value of Stonehedge. Most are citing it as the way to expand borders, but I usually connect a trade route while settler moves into position and state religion expands borders for me.

Though I'd agree that no wonder is "needed," for warmongerers, my votes gotta go with Chichen following Steinbrenner philosophy - best way to beat tough players is to buy 'em and sit 'em on your own bench!

 

[yavoon]

I don't think of any Wonders as "must have"...in fact, every so often I make a point of not building any (unless they are ridiculously cheap to build--15 turns or less). And most of the Wonders I get only to keep the AI from getting it.

That said, my list of "I'm disappointed if I miss" Wonders would include:

The Parthenon: Great People are great. Getting more = great.
Statue of Liberty: Great benefit that easily pays for itself.
Great Lighthouse: Easily pays for itself.
Three Gorges Dam: This is as close to a must-have as I can think of; production is so important late in the game.
Eiffel Tower: Especially if you manage one of the media Wonders. And, of course, very effective for Charismatic leaders when Warlords comes out...

Other important ones: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Pentagon, and Hagia Sophia, if only because they produce Engineers, and I love engineers. Obviously, things like the Space Elevator and the United Nations are important if going for a specific victory. I would also say that at least one of the media wonders (Hollywood, Broadway, Rock N Roll) is a "must-have"; you can easily convert just one of these into scads of cash and luxuries, so long as you have reasonably prosperous neighbors. I also prefer the Kremlin, but I can see why most people don't.

On my overrated list would be the Oracle (I'm just not buying it; it's good, but it's not that critical unless you're specifically going for a religion-based strategy); the Colossus (it's cheap, but the benefit is minimal); and the Great Library (again, it's nice, but the benefits just aren't *that* significant.)

three gorges is a bad wonder. should probably never be made.

 

[malekithe]

three gorges is a bad wonder. should probably never be made.

Care to elaborate?

 

[yavoon]

Care to elaborate?

sure, it'll be fun. there are several problems.

first, its very very expensive and will take a long time to build and there is no double rate for it. so ur stuck paying all 1750.

second is it comes behind what it effectively replaces. ie, u want factories/coal plants in all ur cities and three gorges effectively replaces all coal plants. but coal plant tech is at assembly which is actually a really good tech, and u will probably extend urself just to get this tech, meaning u will be doing some filling in after u do. while three gorges is at plastics, an unremarkable tech farther up the tree w/ an electricity pre req.

but lets assume u wanted to beeline for this insanely expensive wonder after already beelining for assembly(which is smart). so u get assembly, start making ur factories(I find they take 15-25 turns). so lets say in that time u actually get to plastics, ignoring as many techs as possible. now u start the wonder. normally a player who had just built a bunch of factories would build a bunch of coal plants, but seeing as it seems pretty silly to build all those coal plants when u plan on getting three gorges u just let it slide.

three gorges will take, oh I dont know, some ungodly amount of turns from even ur best city. lets say u made 20 base minerals(pretty damn good) then u get forge+factory so now its 30 minerals. thats 59 turns for three gorges. now the other player will just start his coal plants immediately and they will be up in between 5-12 turns. so for the remainder of the time(59-12, or however long) u are producing 25% or so fewer minerals than him. far making up for the difference between all his coal plants and ur three gorges.

it gets better though, after having suffered for all those turns u finally build it, a great wonder of the world. and what now? do u overtake in some daring sprint to super production? no, u just pull equal w/ him. but of course u get +2 health per city. thats what three gorges is, the latest most useless, most expensive health generator ever conceived by civ. that was fun to write

now there are things u could try to mitigate it. like continuing to run bureaucracy(then u cant have free speech). or build coal plants(really making it a +2 health wonder). but in the end, if u just dont build it, dont research plastics, and build coal plants. thats much better.

 

[Wodan]

Best for 3 Gorges is to save a Great Engineer for it. He'll put you 75% of the way to completion.

Wodan

 

[Wodan]

#1) The Oracle: I'd be hard pressed to choose a wonder that has more impact on my games than The Oracle. I'm only occasionally able to pull of the CS slingshot, but regardless a free jump to Code of Laws or Iron Working is pretty powerful. Also, for the shields it is the best wonder hands down.

The cost of Oracle isn't the hammers, it's that it forces you down a tech path you'd probably rather not, all things being equal.

#2) The Great Library
#3) The Statue of Liberty

Agreed.

#4) The Pyramids: Amazing effect, but this wonder is VERY cost prohibitive.

Well worth it, IMO. Having Representation early is HUGE.

Wodan

 

[Elrohir]

Most of the wonder's are useful for one strategy or another - but none of them are "absolute[ly] must have", and characterizing them as such is dangerous. If your strategy depends upon getting certain wonders, then you are never going to become a strong player, until you break yourself of this. It's better to never become "addicited" to any one wonder - if you can get a good wonder, great, if not, it's not the be all or end all.

 

[alpha wolf 64]

I've always been a big fan of Stonehenge, it allows a quick border pop for those first few cities you might place to get an essential resource (copper, horses, etc.). Otherwise, I find that I have to place a city in a less than ideal location. Plus Stonehenge gives you Great Prophets, which are flexible for techs or shrines in the early.

I think one of the worst wonders is Chichen Itza. It's quite an investment for a limited window of a bit more extra defence, when you can put walls in vulnerable cities that have much the same effect.

Totally 100% in agreement.

 

[Olleus]

1) Oracle - people have already mentioned why

2) Great Gorges Damn - I have a huge empire by this time and need the production

3) Pentagon - allows me to finaly drop theocracy in favour of free religion but keep 2 promotions for all new units.


Honourable mentions include:

great library, collosus, Eifell tower (yet to not get this one), Statue of liberty, stonehenge

Of course, depending on my strategy the Pyramids and/or Spiral Minaret and/or Sistine chapel can become must haves.

 

[malekithe]

three gorges will take, oh I dont know, some ungodly amount of turns from even ur best city. lets say u made 20 base minerals(pretty damn good) then u get forge+factory so now its 30 minerals. thats 59 turns for three gorges. now the other player will just start his coal plants immediately and they will be up in between 5-12 turns. so for the remainder of the time(59-12, or however long) u are producing 25% or so fewer minerals than him. far making up for the difference between all his coal plants and ur three gorges.

I'll preface this by saying I'm not a big fan of Three Gorges myself. However, I think you're painting the whole thing in far too negative a light. First of all, 20 hammers from your leading production center is a gross underestimate. My best production center in the medieval era typically has ~20 HPT. I think a more reasonable estimate would be 35 HPT. Additionally, the city that builds the three gorges dam will invariably have already built the iron works. You'd also, because the numbers work out in your favor, build a coal plant before starting on three gorges. So, your total production modifier while working on the dam would actually be more like 200%. If your base was 35, that'd be 105 HPT. So, you're looking at 17 turns for a hydro plant in every city. That's about the same number of turns it would take your typical commerce city to build a coal power plant.

Additionally, while one city is working on three gorges, it's not like all your other cities are sitting there twiddling their thumbs. They should all be producing other things; things that the coal plant player will not get until after he completes his power plants. Then, as you mentioned, there's also the health bonus...

Again, I'm not saying it's some uber-must-have-wonder, just that it's not a total waste. In a space-race game it might come in particularly useful, as you can continue to dedicate most of your empire to reseacrhing as fast as possible, while one city builds power plants for everyone. The ability to focus the production in the city that does it the fastest has distinct advantages.

 

[BadHorsie]

I don't think any wonders are essential, and to be honest there are too many that I really like.

Pyramids and the Oracle are obvious ones. I really like the Eiffel Tower, and the Pentagon and Statue Of Liberty is good.

three gorges is a bad wonder. should probably never be made.

Three Gorges is great. Any wonder which improves all cities on a continent is good.

 

[bioelectricclam]

My favorite wonders are the ones that look cool, and that generate Prophets (I love shrines). So Stonehenge, Pyramids, and Spiral Minaret are usually on my to do list...and I normally only manage to get one of those at best.

 

[Pete2006]

I don't think any wonders are essential, and to be honest there are too many that I really like.

Pyramids and the Oracle are obvious ones. I really like the Eiffel Tower, and the Pentagon and Statue Of Liberty is good.




Three Gorges is great. Any wonder which improves all cities on a continent is good.

I used to thnk the Pyramids were great but that was pre patch. Now that Representation has been nerfed, hereditary rule is clearly the best civic of the group. Monarchy comes just after you would complete the pyramids. So IMO, pyramids are useless.

Oracle is a great wonder especially if you have already reseach mediation/polytheism for a religion. It's just one extra tech and a small number of hammers. Not only does it help you leap past the other AI on tech but it prevents them from getting it. The GPP guarantees you a shrine.

I wouldn't go out of my way to build any other wonders unless I had the resource to build them at 1/2 price or needed one for an economic boost.

 

[yavoon]

I'll preface this by saying I'm not a big fan of Three Gorges myself. However, I think you're painting the whole thing in far too negative a light. First of all, 20 hammers from your leading production center is a gross underestimate. My best production center in the medieval era typically has ~20 HPT. I think a more reasonable estimate would be 35 HPT. Additionally, the city that builds the three gorges dam will invariably have already built the iron works. You'd also, because the numbers work out in your favor, build a coal plant before starting on three gorges. So, your total production modifier while working on the dam would actually be more like 200%. If your base was 35, that'd be 105 HPT. So, you're looking at 17 turns for a hydro plant in every city. That's about the same number of turns it would take your typical commerce city to build a coal power plant.

Additionally, while one city is working on three gorges, it's not like all your other cities are sitting there twiddling their thumbs. They should all be producing other things; things that the coal plant player will not get until after he completes his power plants. Then, as you mentioned, there's also the health bonus...

Again, I'm not saying it's some uber-must-have-wonder, just that it's not a total waste. In a space-race game it might come in particularly useful, as you can continue to dedicate most of your empire to reseacrhing as fast as possible, while one city builds power plants for everyone. The ability to focus the production in the city that does it the fastest has distinct advantages.

I did lots of assumptions the other way too. like that there is no penalty for beelining for plastics, which is otherwise a bad tech. that u actually get to plastics in the time it takes to build factories. and as for "producing other things" the point was that the coal plant player will have the 25% advantage to catchup and surpass the three gorges player. who even when he builds it of course will not regain any advantage, just have a health bonus.

I dont think it helps the space race at all. space race is about the timing of ur builds along w/ ur research. all the cities that are going to participate in the space race are going to be pretty strong production cities, and will gobble up building the coal plant in ~4 turns or so. its not like having ur ice city mining silver get a free coal plant is going to launch ur spaceship. and if ur in the space race, taking ur ironworks city(the workhorse) and using it to help a bunch of cities that aren't even gna participate in the space race is a little nonsensical.

35 base hammers per turn....hrrrm. I'll think on that.