Which Wonder is absolute must have?
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Feyd Rautha
Prince
Well... since everyone can get Heroic Epic (national wonder) I think that the question needs revision.
Are you asking which wonders that can only be built once (World Wonders) I aim for or are you asking which ones I see as the most useful.
World Wonders for which I aim...
#1) The Oracle: I'd be hard pressed to choose a wonder that has more impact on my games than The Oracle. I'm only occasionally able to pull of the CS slingshot, but regardless a free jump to Code of Laws or Iron Working is pretty powerful. Also, for the shields it is the best wonder hands down.
#2) The Great Library: Great effect and benefits. Pair this with the Oracle and you've basically secured a tech lead for the entire game.
#3) The Statue of Liberty: Free specialists are nothing to scoff at. Unless you're on an archipelago map (at which point this wonder doesn't even make the list) this wonder is basically allowing you to have TWO economics civics: Mercatilism and the one of your choice.
#4) The Pyramids: Amazing effect, but this wonder is VERY cost prohibitive. Unless I have stone or am planning a specialist heavy economy I will skip this wonder since to build it you have to tie up a city with good production for almost an entire era (since it's impossible to my knowledge to get any great engineer points before this wonder).
#5) TIE: The Great Lighthouse and The Colossus: These wonders depend on the map, but I normally play on maps where I wind up with a good number of coastal cities and so I rank these wonders rather high. The commerce which is potentially available from these wonders is enough to raise one's tech rate by at least 10% with just a modest amount of coastal cities.
Honorable Mention: The Pentagon: Now this wonder's stock is probably going to rise in the new expansion since Barracks will be providing one less experience, but regardless this wonder is very circumstantial and while I like to build it just to keep it out of my opponents hands I don't think it is a MUST HAVE like the first three wonders on my list.
Now... as for the wonders I think are the most usefull you can add these National wonders into my list in the appropriate places...
#2a) Ironworks: Double the production for the city in question? Sign me up! Not as good as the first two on my list, but right there behind the GL
#2b) Oxford University: Research rate is very important to me and doubling the output of my biggest city is only slightly less useful than having a power production city.
#2c) Wall Street: To keep tech going at a steady rate I need gold and this is a great way to get it.
#3a) The Forbidden Palace: Not a required building since there's the fun State Property civic, but since I normally prefer to run Free Market it is a great relief to have. I would like to see it have more effect though (such as if your capital is taken by the enemy your civ enters a state of anarchy unless you have a forbidden palace to replace it.)
#3b) Heroic Epic: Very useful, but dependent on my being a warmonger
#3c) West Point: I normally have one "unit pump" city in the late game and it is most often the city with West Point. I've built my army, but it's always nice to add to the horde. Not necessary to win though.
Anyway, that's MY list, but I'm sure others might have different thoughts.
Cheers...
Are you asking which wonders that can only be built once (World Wonders) I aim for or are you asking which ones I see as the most useful.
World Wonders for which I aim...
#1) The Oracle: I'd be hard pressed to choose a wonder that has more impact on my games than The Oracle. I'm only occasionally able to pull of the CS slingshot, but regardless a free jump to Code of Laws or Iron Working is pretty powerful. Also, for the shields it is the best wonder hands down.
#2) The Great Library: Great effect and benefits. Pair this with the Oracle and you've basically secured a tech lead for the entire game.
#3) The Statue of Liberty: Free specialists are nothing to scoff at. Unless you're on an archipelago map (at which point this wonder doesn't even make the list) this wonder is basically allowing you to have TWO economics civics: Mercatilism and the one of your choice.
#4) The Pyramids: Amazing effect, but this wonder is VERY cost prohibitive. Unless I have stone or am planning a specialist heavy economy I will skip this wonder since to build it you have to tie up a city with good production for almost an entire era (since it's impossible to my knowledge to get any great engineer points before this wonder).
#5) TIE: The Great Lighthouse and The Colossus: These wonders depend on the map, but I normally play on maps where I wind up with a good number of coastal cities and so I rank these wonders rather high. The commerce which is potentially available from these wonders is enough to raise one's tech rate by at least 10% with just a modest amount of coastal cities.
Honorable Mention: The Pentagon: Now this wonder's stock is probably going to rise in the new expansion since Barracks will be providing one less experience, but regardless this wonder is very circumstantial and while I like to build it just to keep it out of my opponents hands I don't think it is a MUST HAVE like the first three wonders on my list.
Now... as for the wonders I think are the most usefull you can add these National wonders into my list in the appropriate places...
#2a) Ironworks: Double the production for the city in question? Sign me up! Not as good as the first two on my list, but right there behind the GL
#2b) Oxford University: Research rate is very important to me and doubling the output of my biggest city is only slightly less useful than having a power production city.
#2c) Wall Street: To keep tech going at a steady rate I need gold and this is a great way to get it.
#3a) The Forbidden Palace: Not a required building since there's the fun State Property civic, but since I normally prefer to run Free Market it is a great relief to have. I would like to see it have more effect though (such as if your capital is taken by the enemy your civ enters a state of anarchy unless you have a forbidden palace to replace it.)
#3b) Heroic Epic: Very useful, but dependent on my being a warmonger
#3c) West Point: I normally have one "unit pump" city in the late game and it is most often the city with West Point. I've built my army, but it's always nice to add to the horde. Not necessary to win though.
Anyway, that's MY list, but I'm sure others might have different thoughts.
Cheers...
Murky
Deity
It is possible, build a forge.
Feyd Rautha
Prince
jafink said:
This is what I had assumed.
Metal Casting is a Classical era tech which means it costs quite a bit and by the time you research it and get a forge it's unlikely that the Pyramids would be available or plausible for building. Add to that the turns you have to wait for a great engineer to appear and it's neigh impossible.
Anyway, the cost prohibitiveness of the Pyramids is odd in my book not that it doesn't match the effect, but instead that they were built in the 25th century BC (2400 or so). I've never seen them come that early to my recollection.
GenocideBringer
King
- Joined
- May 29, 2005
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- 628
Wrong forum
Murky
Deity
jafink said:
You can use the Oracle to sling-shot to Metal Casting. With Industrious the forge is half price, so yes it's viable to have a Great Engineer build the Pyramids. I have done this on Monarch.
Murky
Deity
PugFugly said:
True but you will not build the Oracle as fast. That and you are more likely to get a Great Prophet because of the 100% on the Oracle's GP points. You don't want to chop too many forest too early, can lead to health issues.
The oracle has to be the best.
I also like to chop stonehenge as its cheap - With the 2 of these in your capital an early priest is a given.
I will use a great engineer for statue of liberty and I also try and build great library.
When playing monarch, I like to play as Saladin and can normally manage to build most of the wonders including the Parthenon - gives an amazing amount of GPs. Not so good a tactic on emperor though.
I also like to chop stonehenge as its cheap - With the 2 of these in your capital an early priest is a given.
I will use a great engineer for statue of liberty and I also try and build great library.
When playing monarch, I like to play as Saladin and can normally manage to build most of the wonders including the Parthenon - gives an amazing amount of GPs. Not so good a tactic on emperor though.
The Great Library is a must have on any map type. 7bpt (6*1.25 = 7.5, rounded down is 7) is nothing to laugh at at that point, but it's really the free GSP (8, 2 from the wonder, plus six from the specialists) that makes this wonder a necessity.
The Great Lighthouse is a necessity on any water based map. The extra trade route are negligable until your cities are well developed, but the longevity of this wonder makes it very much worthwhile to build.
That's really about it in terms of must have wonders. The Pentagon, the Three Gorges Dam, and the Eiffel Tower are all very nice as well, though certainly not must have. The modern happiness resources are good to control, but again, they are not must have wonders.
The Oracle is really overrated. It's classically used for either a 350 beaker or a 450 (400?) beaker tech, and only seems potent because those techs seem otherwise prohibitive to research on your own, but they're not.
The Great Lighthouse is a necessity on any water based map. The extra trade route are negligable until your cities are well developed, but the longevity of this wonder makes it very much worthwhile to build.
That's really about it in terms of must have wonders. The Pentagon, the Three Gorges Dam, and the Eiffel Tower are all very nice as well, though certainly not must have. The modern happiness resources are good to control, but again, they are not must have wonders.
The Oracle is really overrated. It's classically used for either a 350 beaker or a 450 (400?) beaker tech, and only seems potent because those techs seem otherwise prohibitive to research on your own, but they're not.
Lollapalooza
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
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- 3
I've always been a big fan of Stonehenge, it allows a quick border pop for those first few cities you might place to get an essential resource (copper, horses, etc.). Otherwise, I find that I have to place a city in a less than ideal location. Plus Stonehenge gives you Great Prophets, which are flexible for techs or shrines in the early.
I think one of the worst wonders is Chichen Itza. It's quite an investment for a limited window of a bit more extra defence, when you can put walls in vulnerable cities that have much the same effect.
I think one of the worst wonders is Chichen Itza. It's quite an investment for a limited window of a bit more extra defence, when you can put walls in vulnerable cities that have much the same effect.
Lance of Llanwy
King
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- Mar 10, 2006
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- 710
The answer is...no wonder is a "must have." A lot of them are very nice and provide juicy benefits, but you can easily put those hammers into axes, swords, and other units armed with pointy things and procure those wonders by force!
My favorite wonders are 'Henge, the GL, and the Statue of Liberty, but, again, I've gotten along without them just fine...
My favorite wonders are 'Henge, the GL, and the Statue of Liberty, but, again, I've gotten along without them just fine...
It really varies depending on your strategy. There are some very powerful wonders like pyramids, oracle, great library and colossus, but your not likely to get them all unless your playing on a relatively easy level. so you must choose based on what you think you can get and how you will use it in your strategy.
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