Which Wonder is absolute must have?

[moggydave]

With Warlords I think the Great Wall is an awesome wonder. More so for the Great Engineer points rather than the defense (which is a HUGE convienence for me). On earlier difficulty before Warlords I would often build Pyramids for the GE, since I never ran specialist economy. The GW is 200 hammers cheaper, saves you extra hammers and hassle because military is less of concern and using the first GE for Hanging Gardens in the same city is great. Stick Parthenon in another city if possible and lots of GE's. In my recent game with Stalin I had TWO GE's with nothing to do in the medieval era (admitedly I was industrious and had stone) but it was great. An underrated wonder. (perhaps with philosophical leaders you can get Pyramids quicker by using GE from GW, then using next GE for Great Library for specialist econ.)

The only must have wonders are Pyramids, Great Library and SoL when running specialist economy.

Other wonders are great convenience. Uni of Sankore is awesome with Spiral Minaret and Religion whoring (perhaps thats an inappropriate term lol). Stonehenge is useful and Stonehenge+Oracle+religion is good too. Colosus and Great Lighthouse are huge on Archipalego and I always get Three Gorges Dam if I can. Temple of Artemis+Angkor Wat+reglion is useful, better if you somehow slot Pyramids in.

Perhaps Ironworks is the only must have really. Ironworks+Heroic Epic =overkill.



EDIT: Regarding the Great Wall w/Hanging Gardens, HG is so cheap you may not need GE for it anyway.

 

[dh_epic]

I think the Parthenon is a must for Philosophical leaders. The Pyramids are a must for Organized leaders. I find the Oracle is within good position for leaders that start with Mysticism.

Otherwise, my number one Wonder is the Great Library. Huge science benefits. Can be a real turning point in the game.

 

[Araqiel]

think again

It's Sisiutil's game with Frederick on Prince. He build the Oracle for a Metal Casting slingshot, a forge, than the Pyramids. Granted, it takes some pretty hard calculations to do it right, but it's been done. And check out the time of finish too.

You can do even better in Warlords. Just build the Great Wall with a philosophical civilization instead of the Oracle. You'd have a GE in 25 turns, you should easily be able to do this in time to snag the pyramids as well. Then you'll get another GE in 25 more turns.

 

[Cereal Box]

I find that the Ironworks gives me a definate advantage in the late game, especially if I don't have a massive empire (I play on noble btw).

 

[50_dollar_bag]

I don't think any wonder is a must have, as like someone posted earlier you don't lose the game if you fail to build one particular wonder.

Favourite wonder is a different story, mine at the moment is the Great Wall only because exploiting synergies when available i.e. the Great Wall with an Imperialistic civ. Try drawing an enemies stack into your borders and demolishing it and see how many GGs you can get.

Taj Mahal is also a fav of mine as I often won't use GPs on a Golden age until well into the game.

 

[roadie]

I always try to go Stonehenge, Oracle ---> Shrine for the gold that brings.

Other early ones I like are the Great Lighthouse and the Colosuss when I have lots of coastal cities.

If I manage to get all of the above then I have an unstoppable economy.

 

[Murky]

Has anyone tried not buiding any great wonders?

 

[carl corey]

In one game my first wonder was The Great Library, but usually I get one (or more) of Stonehenge, Oracle and Pyramids. Not sure if it's in any way useful not to build any great wonders. You might capture a few, of course, but sometimes waiting for it to be built is just not worth it.

The only time when I would consider not building any wonders would be if I had little room and a lot of neighbours. Then maybe just wars and economic infranstructure building would be enough.

On continents though waiting to capture the wonders might put you in a lot of trouble. What if they end up on the other continent? Depending on your gameplan some of them would be pretty useful, and maybe even easy to build. So I really think there's no reason not to build any.

 

[Murky]

The biggest drawback to having a "Must" have wonder is not being able to get it built in time, on the higher levels.

Wasted hammers on Emperor level can cost you the game.

 

[bassist2119]

Somewhat new to the game, previously held no-wonder=must-have status, though pyramids often ranked VERY high (side note: regarding financial civs, for Suffrage, not Rep: 5 gold cottages are now going to make an extra hammer too!?! Plus ability to use some of that extra moolah to rush!?! All for a lower civic cost than Rep...)

Two recent games, though, displayed the incredible power of one not yet mentioned (on its own, at least) wonder: the Spiral Minaret. If you have founded a religion, named it State, and spread (for shrine cash/happiness), the amount of money this thing generates (up to 2 1/3 per city) adds to incredible amounts, especially when combined w/ shrine cash. It's possible and even likely for a civilization to support itself, even prosper, on religion money alone.

 

[GABB]

think again

It's Sisiutil's game with Frederick on Prince. He build the Oracle for a Metal Casting slingshot, a forge, than the Pyramids. Granted, it takes some pretty hard calculations to do it right, but it's been done. And check out the time of finish too.

Isn't hard calculations. Found your second city with 3-5 forest in the fat +, pre-chop and complete the chops immediatly after Oracle, whip if you can to finish your forge in the 5th (or 6th) turn after Oracle and assign a engineer... Is most important pre-chop and grow (for whip) in the forge's city than finish Oracle early...

 

[Toshiro126]

Originally posted by Murky:

Has anyone tried not buiding any great wonders?

I have. I think it made me a better player, because it got me out of a rut I got in of doing the same routine every time I played. For me, I was so intent on getting Wonders, I wasn't using the time and production for more useful things like...um...building a military.....

I've only played Monarch a few times, and am currently playing on Prince. So as you go up in level I'm curious if you need to build more Wonders to stay competive, or if you end up building less because you need to be producing other things...

 

[Murky]

I have. I think it made me a better player, because it got me out of a rut I got in of doing the same routine every time I played. For me, I was so intent on getting Wonders, I wasn't using the time and production for more useful things like...um...building a military.....

I've only played Monarch a few times, and am currently playing on Prince. So as you go up in level I'm curious if you need to build more Wonders to stay competive, or if you end up building less because you need to be producing other things...

Wonders seem to work best on the lower levels because they reduce the time it takes to get techs, expand and conquer. There just doesn't seem to be enough time to build them on higher levels. On Monarch or higher, it's much more of a gamble and a risky investment you could lose by not having enough defense.

 

[pigswill]

I'd make a distinction between must build (Oracle, Taj Mahal) and must own coz most wonders' benefits remain after you capture them.

 

[OceansEleven]

The ones I usually build, or atleast TRY to build.

Stongehenge - Build it everytime. I love the +1 culture it goes. Saves time for building the obelisk.
Oracle - Try to build it, if I have enough time. I love the free technology.
Great Lighthouse and Col. - Usually build either one of them, or both. +1 gold is good.
Taj Mahal - The Golden Age rocks...
The Statue of Liberty - Helps in the run
The Pentagon - Helps each city get 2 promotions with no theocracy/vasslage. Helps if the UN makes Free Religion and Free Speech or whatever perm.
The Three Gorges Dam - I like the effect. Elec. in every city, saves health and turns. *Turns for other cities*

 

[Zombie69]

No wonder is a must build, and there's no single wonder i build in even half my games. Sometimes, i don't build a single world wonder for the entire game. On immortal and deity, you're almost always better producing military units.

 

[a4phantom]

Surprised Parthenon didn't make most people's lists. Comes early, doesn't obsolete and gives half the philo- advantage.

It does obsolete, although chemistry is a long ways off. I build Parthenon if I get marble and Oracle's done, but Oracle's the essential one because it's no good taking it away from the builder, unlike Pyramids and Parthenon. I also try to always build the Great Library, but that can also be taken.

 

[Xanxir]

I am so bad about reading the first few posts and the last few posts of a thread. So, I don't know if this thought was there, but I might as well throw it out there just in case....

If I find myself in a situation where I can feasibly get both Stonehenge and the Oracle, I find it a great benefit to have them. There are lots of factors that come in making that kind of determination right off the bat, though, including placement of my first city.

The reason why I like this combination so much is for how it increases my rate of producing a GP, particularly a great prophet. When I'm able to build those 2 wonders, I've usually end up getting a greap prophet before other civs even generate their first GP period. Early in the game, the prophet is my perferred grear person to have as their joining the city allows me to rapidly increase my gold. That extra gold allows me to expand quickly without having to drop my research rate below 100%.

Now, that that and add in a few other nice details about this early combination. I'm running at 100% research and getting the Oracle gives the free tech. This has usually been enough to give me the tech lead throughout my game. Furthermore, with the rapid expansion I am able to partake in, I can spread cities apart a goodly amount of distance and know that Stonehenge is going to grow my borders. This has been quite helpful in blocking off the territory that I want for further expansion.

By the time that I've settled enough cities so that I'm seeing a negative cash flow, I've already got Code of Laws and courthouses on the way to get me positive again....and ready for a second round of expansion if I have the land available. If not, then I'm in the black enough that I can begin to build my army for an early war for either more expansion or the gathering of gold through war. What's more is that by the time that one city of mine (my capital in 99% of the cases), it's big enough that it's producing pretty much anything I need in a relatively short amount of time. So, it naturally, becomes a wonder magnet as I discover a tech that allows for a wonder and I've got nothing left to build, but the wonder.

To make this work effectively for me, the key has been my initial build order. I've got to be flexible with it, but it usually goes like this:

1. Warrior (if I don't play a civ that starts with Mysticism).
2. Stonehenge (allows for growth any me extra starting unit time to scout for land, goody huts to hopefully get things started quicker with another settler)
3. Settler (to start my expansion)
4. Oracle (While this is building, the new cities are working on settlers to expand and warriors for defense as well as workers).
5. Worker and whatever else I might need.

Another thing that's good about this build order is that it really doesn't take me off my game plan too terribly much. Worst case, is that I don't get one or both wonders. Well, as trying as that might be, I do get the extra cash from working on them, which I can use to still allow me to expand quickly while never hurting my research rate.

Now that I'm playing warlords, I've been experimenting to see about incorporating the Great Wall into this initial plan. So far, the Great Wall goes into one of my secondary cities and the usage of the Great Engineer that it produces to start cultivating one of those cities into a super science city.

 

[sirford]

I usually play washington, so stonehenge is a great wonder for me, probably one of the best. The monuments each give +1 culture, +1 happyness.

 

[OceansEleven]

1. Warrior (if I don't play a civ that starts with Mysticism).
2. Stonehenge (allows for growth any me extra starting unit time to scout for land, goody huts to hopefully get things started quicker with another settler)
3. Settler (to start my expansion)
4. Oracle (While this is building, the new cities are working on settlers to expand and warriors for defense as well as workers).
5. Worker and whatever else I might need.

Me:

1. Warrior
2. Stongehenge (Until I grow)
3. When I grow, I switch to settler
4. When settler is done, I finish Stonehenge
5. Usually worker or Oracle
6. Either one ^ I didn't do.

I think the AI's production is like this:

1. Warrior
2. Warrior
3. Worker
4. Settler/Warrior/Scout
5. Settler, if didn't build ^. If built, possibly a wonder... not sure though.