White Hand for FFPlus

[PPQ_Purple]

I think that when asension kicks in, all hell should break loos.
Ice would spread across the world (like hell does now), and frost monsters should start spawning.

 

[far_wanderer]

First off, that was a great story by KillerClowns.

Anyhow, as to the post just above about freeze+sanctify, any chance that this means the freeze might have a radius other than "one tile"? Freezing your empire square by square, including freezing impassable terrain like mountains, would seem a PITA. Doing it in little 3x3 swathes isn't a lot more fun, granted, but it's better than nothing.

Additionally I guess "freeze" might be a decent candidate for auto-casting, much like Sanctify, which while I don't see it being that beneficial in your own empire, would maybe make life easier for your stacks marching through other territory... creating a road of ice as they go. This'd benefit the Winterborn sorts in your stack, as well as neutralize any terrain advantages that your enemies might've expected to enjoy, such as demons on hell terrain.

Come to think for a moment regarding Winterborn... I wonder if that's a promo that Temples of the Hand ought start granting (whether 100% chance, or less) even for non Illian / Doviello. That is, you've invited the White Hand into your empire, everything's freezing, and so is your next generation of armies etc., at least if they're trained in a city that's fully embraced the White Hand.

I kind of assumed Ice would spread automatically when you adopt the White Hand, and Freeze would just be if you wanted to speed up the process. Otherwise, you'll get a situation where people build barrier lines of Ice to stop hell spread, and keep perfectly normal terrain hidden behind it.

 

[deadliver]

Dude, Auric murders Cassiel? That rat bastard!

I'd agree that Auric should start neutral and then turn more evil but what would be the point really? After all he will become evil EVERY game. There is no reason not to try to get Auric Ascended, that is kind of the point of playing the civ.

 

[Brokenbone]

I kind of assumed Ice would spread automatically when you adopt the White Hand, and Freeze would just be if you wanted to speed up the process. Otherwise, you'll get a situation where people build barrier lines of Ice to stop hell spread, and keep perfectly normal terrain hidden behind it.

A kingdom reluctantly adopting the WH, having to sacrifice a huge perimeter to create a wall of ice... well, might be a decent roleplay choice as well. Then some true Illian priests with whom you have open borders walk a straight line through your kingdom leaving a massive trail of ice behind them, autocasting every step or something, ha ha. Again, might make for some interesting things happening which'd make a tale all their own.

...

Afterthought though was if someone wanted to turn their terrain back to something decent, I wonder if WH religion should bar a civ from its adepts using Scorch? Pay lip service to the return of winter, ice, all that other stuff, yet you're constantly scorching ice fields to try and eke out a little more production or something, that may be blasphemy! Just a thought.

 

[Valkrionn]

I kind of assumed Ice would spread automatically when you adopt the White Hand, and Freeze would just be if you wanted to speed up the process. Otherwise, you'll get a situation where people build barrier lines of Ice to stop hell spread, and keep perfectly normal terrain hidden behind it.

^This. That's why I want Jean's new code. He set it up so Illian territory will automatically begin to freeze, but can also revert back to the original when not in Illian hands..... I'll do the same thing for the White Hand. There will be no avoiding the ice.... Which makes Winterborn from Temples a decent idea.

 

[deadliver]

^This. That's why I want Jean's new code. He set it up so Illian territory will automatically begin to freeze, but can also revert back to the original when not in Illian hands..... I'll do the same thing for the White Hand. There will be no avoiding the ice.... Which makes Winterborn from Temples a decent idea.

Whoa, that sounds cool. You are gonna make Priests of Winter buildable right? Maybe buildable after the White Hand ritual is completed?

 

[Valkrionn]

Whoa, that sounds cool. You are gonna make Priests of Winter buildable right? Maybe buildable after the White Hand ritual is completed?

Probably, but the initial three will be the best. Mini-heros.

 

[Quetz]

Will Sanctify or Scorch remove Ice? I imagine that could get incredibly annoying.

 

[Valkrionn]

Scorch already does, so yes.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel that using WH as your state religion should bar you from using Sun mana and Sun spells? And posibly fire.

 

[Brokenbone]

You're not alone in the thought, PPQ

Alternately or additionally, never known how to make mana affect diplomacy (as in "You use Death mana" with Evil liking that, Good disliking that), maybe things like a thumbs up for Ice use or disapproval of Sun use might weave its way into this line of thinking.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

While not exactly friends, I don't really know of any great enmity between Mulcarn and Lugus. The first major spell Auric himself used was actually sun magic. I'd think that banning or having a diplomatic modifier against Fire and Nature would make much more sense.

Currently, it is not possible to make certain civs or religions have a diplomatic malus towards the use of specific resources. The diplomatic effect is controlled by the <iBadAttitude> tag in CIV4BonusInfos.xml and the <iAttitudeBadBonus> tag in CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml. In vanilla FfH or FF Death and Entropy mana are the only resources with a non 0 <iBadAttitude> tag, -2 for Entropy and -1 for Death I believe. (In my version, Dimensional also has a -1 and Force has a +1.) These value is multiplied by the leader's <iAttitudeBadBonus> value to determine how having a resource changes his opinion of you. The leader's don't have separate opinions about separate resources.

Opera has agreed to try to create a more versatile system for her Leaders Enhanced modmod for Orbis, where individual leaders and religions can have modifiers for different bonuses, but I doubt she has gotten very far

 

[Opera]

Opera has agreed to try to create a more versatile system for her Leaders Enhanced modmod for Orbis, where individual leaders and religions can have modifiers for different bonuses, but I doubt she has gotten very far

Yeah, not very far. In fact, not even started to think about how to do it. I'm busy editing leaders for now. I'll look at it after my first release. That's something really useful and certainly pretty easy to do (just have to recycle the bonus tags from other files and check them for attitude, blahblah).

 

[deadliver]

Yeah, not very far. In fact, not even started to think about how to do it. I'm busy editing leaders for now. I'll look at it after my first release. That's something really useful and certainly pretty easy to do (just have to recycle the bonus tags from other files and check them for attitude, blahblah).

heya, please include a modifier for slavery civic adoption please! Otherwise i'd have to roll over and add it myself.

EDIT: oh right, the thread...woo hoo White Hand! Can't wait for these guys to be expanded upon.

 

[Opera]

heya, please include a modifier for slavery civic adoption please! Otherwise i'd have to roll over and add it myself.

EDIT: oh right, the thread...woo hoo White Hand! Can't wait for these guys to be expanded upon.

What modifier, Mutant Guy?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

The reason for the hatred of sun magic has nothing to do with lore people.
I am proposing it becouse Scorch can destroy ice and would hence be allowing the player to exploit WH without losing land to permafrost.

 

[Brokenbone]

I don't know how it's achieved in Orbis, but Illians there seem to have some kind of "ice spread" mechanic I hadn't seen anyplace else, where if you mouseover a tile within their cultural borders, there's a message about it being "Unnaturally Cold" with a number sometimes associated with it, as normal terrain steadily becomes ice terrain. Once you kill off the local Illian culture, a "reversal" taking many turns, think at least 10 turns per "step" of warming, takes place. Like an Ice hill + 10 turns = tundra hill, tundra hill + 10 turns = plains hill.

Anyhow, since I hadn't seen this before, thought it might be worth mentioning if it could somehow relate to some kind of White Hand "consequences" mechanics, where the terrain kind of "wants to be cold" no matter how much micromanagement a bunch of scorchers or whatever might be otherwise meant to achieve.

Note I have no idea when or why the Orbis Illian territory started getting cold, maybe there were Temples of the Hand built, I just knew it was annoying to invade them in Winterborn-friendly turf!

 

[Opera]

It's from FlavourMod. The freezing starts anytime a plot is controlled by Illians. It's controlled in the XML of Civilizations, where there is a tag named "iTempPerTurnChange" or something. The Illians have -1 I think. Maybe the Malakim have +1 in FlavourMod. Not in Orbis, though.

If the White Hand could have the same tag, it would be interesting. Would require a bit of work in the DLL in order to paste it from the Civ file, though.

 

[Valkrionn]

It's from FlavourMod. The freezing starts anytime a plot is controlled by Illians. It's controlled in the XML of Civilizations, where there is a tag named "iTempPerTurnChange" or something. The Illians have -1 I think. Maybe the Malakim have +1 in FlavourMod. Not in Orbis, though.

If the White Hand could have the same tag, it would be interesting. Would require a bit of work in the DLL in order to paste it from the Civ file, though.

That's exactly what I want to do. I'm waiting for the new FF patch to start, because I'm hoping it will be merged in.

 

[deadliver]

What modifier, Mutant Guy?

Nevermind I can use compassionlow to simulate the distaste of seeing a diplomat using slaves as a footstool.

Valkrionn. It seems the world is moving toward several major terrain types.

Illians and their bum boys will have ice.
Infernals and their dupes have hell terrain.
Malakim and D'Tesh will have desert (well D'tesh will eventually end up with burning sands out the wazoo).
Lizards have their jungle.

Gonna make for some funky looking maps yo. A little off topic but do you think that D'tesh's map being filled with burning sands will be a little too much for some peoples's gfx cards?

Are you planning on having a council for white hand? If so will the dynamics change once Auric Ascends?