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Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by KingYosef, Sep 23, 2010.

?

Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?

  1. Yes

    853 vote(s)
    50.7%
  2. No

    677 vote(s)
    40.2%
  3. Undecided

    152 vote(s)
    9.0%
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  1. Stiefel

    Stiefel Chieftain

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    The problem with dragging down research in the slider is that it can grind research to a halt, allowing people with a stronger economy to leave you in the dust. You obviously cannot comprehend how commerce is related with research not only in Civ 4, but in real life as well. The United States is clearly would find a cure for cancer before India dispite India's advantage in population.

    If you make him too strong, he'll defect and will become an obstacle just like all the other civs. You're assuming that all Vassal State deals are formed by capitulation, which is entirely wrong.
     
  2. Stiefel

    Stiefel Chieftain

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    What crack have you been smoking? There's no big agreement that Social Policies are better than Civics, or trading post spam are better than the sliders, or city states are better than religion/espionage/corporations, or most of this other stuff. It's only agreed that Civ 5's combat engine is better.
     
  3. Thoughtful Thug

    Thoughtful Thug Deity

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    The poll seems to indicate that it is a black and white issue. I mean come on, do you really think this game is like Civ Revolution. I sure don't. It is more of a game wedge between Civilization Revolution and Civ 4 and its expansion packs.
     
  4. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    I think it's an okay game, but it doesn't live up to the Civilization standards. I've been playing Civ since Civilization 2 and liked all of them, but this one is another animal. It should have been branded as a sequel of Civ Rev, which would make it a lovely game for everyone. Us, people who like complex strategy games, would happily wait a little longer for a proper Civilization V.
     
  5. White Out

    White Out Prince

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    anyone who answers no is simply kidding themselves and trying to cope with a broken and bad product. if i never played civ 4 i might love civ 5. probelm is civ 4 is better. a lo tbetter
     
  6. Thoughtful Thug

    Thoughtful Thug Deity

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    I was looking at my post again and seen that I made a mistake. It is more like Civilization 5 is a fugly adopted child of Civilization Rev and Civ 4 to come think of it.
     
  7. Flavorable

    Flavorable Warlord

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    Except that Civ V takes into account infrastructure when it calculates science. Remember that it isn't all about who has more people, but who has, through a ratio of science/person has the most research being committed. Which makes sense. Canada puts more money than the states into research on alot of things, but the states just has an advantage in choice through numbers.



    If you make him too strong, he'll defect and will become an obstacle just like all the other civs. You're assuming that all Vassal State deals are formed by capitulation, which is entirely wrong.[/QUOTE]

    In my +800 hours of BtS, I've never seen that once.
     
  8. Flavorable

    Flavorable Warlord

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    Alot better now.

    Seriously, at release, Civ IV was much worse off.
     
  9. Flavorable

    Flavorable Warlord

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    Well... yeah, there kinda has, I haven't seen a single debate that ended with Civics winning.

    And lets face it, religion/espionage/corporations were all completley unnecessary, just contrived simplistic crap heaved onto the core game.

    And honestly? I also haven't seen Sliders ever win out over long term economic management, either.
     
  10. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    If what 2K said was true "We wanted a simpler game to attact new gamers", that doesn't have to mean that it was "dumbed down"? Sure there are a lot of things in the game that needs to be improved but it could still (or eventually) adhere to the maxim of a "simple but deep" game.

    Think back on Civ2. Do you recall how incredibly simple that game was to play? It 's almost like a pre-school game compared to Civ5. But a lot of civers had (and still have) fun playing that.
     
  11. White Out

    White Out Prince

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    i can agree with that

    but civ 5 will need a lot, and i mean a LOT added to make it as good as civ 4.

    -religion
    -smarter AI with the 1UPT
    -better army movement
    -diplomacy that isn't random and nonsensical

    just to start
     
  12. Flavorable

    Flavorable Warlord

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    I totally agree, it has a way to go if its to surpass BtS, but I'd take it any day over IV vanilla.
     
  13. avatar.ds

    avatar.ds Chieftain

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    Definitely dumbed down and overproduced. Both leading to a very boring experience. Been playing civ for 17 years, and while civ4 was not without its quirks, it was a whole lot of fun. This is not to say civ5 lacks some interesting features (hexes are better than squares, and the 2d tile display remotely reminds me of the Great Ur-Civ) but overall it's just... PLAIN BORING! Tried playing several times this weekend, but it just left me with a feeling that I don't care about most things that kept me addicted to previous versions.
     
  14. Stiefel

    Stiefel Chieftain

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    Infastructure? You mean the libraries and universities that give the city research bonuses based on population? That's hardly realistic provided that these buildings require commerce to run effectively. The fixed upkeep costs on the buildings are unrealistic, and take away from the game entirely. In Civ 4 terms, America has all the permanent alliances and money-strong cities nevessary to hold such an advantage.


    Only because the AI abuses its vassals, and capitulated civs require a certain land and population ratio before it can break away. Civs that become your vassal by pure whim can quit whenever, and this has happened to me several times.
     
  15. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    I honestly don't get all the fuss about the loss of religion. For the most part it was a pointless if amusing geegaw, its only use being to help form diplomatic blocs, a patch over a crack in the existing diplomacy system rather than a feature in itself.
     
  16. Schuesseled

    Schuesseled Deity

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    You seem to be conviently forgetting that over half of civ 5 players (who voted in this poll) disagree with you completley, your in the minority.
     
  17. bernlin2000

    bernlin2000 Prince

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    As a whole, no, the game hasn't been dumbed down. Empire happiness is a dumbed down element, in the sense that it rolls city health, happiness, and corruption into one neat bow, which is wrongheaded. Other than that, the game is quite similar in complexity to CivIV (although it's hiding that complexity more than CivIV did) and even has a combat system that is actually much more difficult to master. Reports of Civ Rev 2 were greatly exaggerated.

    Edit: I'd be curious to find out what percent of those that said the game is dumbed down, have actually played it seriously (not 100 turns, and then closed the game in disgust). It's a new product, and it takes time for it to sink in.
     
  18. Stiefel

    Stiefel Chieftain

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    There was no debate that ended with Policies winning either. The Policies are unrealistic. Unless you really believe that countries pick and choose magic buttons that improve commerce, military strength, etc that last indefinitely instead of different forms of government, I'm sure you'll agree with me.

    Religion and espionage were important aspects of the game that could have been truly creat with a little tweaking. However, I do agree with you about corporations.

    Also,
    long term economic management =/= trading post spam.
     
  19. Flavorable

    Flavorable Warlord

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    The maintnence is not only realistic, but it forces the player to specialize, to treat buildings as more than just generic upgrades. And yes, education is the gateway to the sciences, not money.

    And more like: In Civ IV terms, America has hamlets spread across the land, everywhere possible, to produce science.




    This has never happened to me, then again, I didn't buff my vassal in military for no reason either, because it didn't make sense.
     
  20. Usama84

    Usama84 Chieftain

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    civ 5 is civ for dummies!!!
     
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