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Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by KingYosef, Sep 23, 2010.

?

Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?

  1. Yes

    853 vote(s)
    50.7%
  2. No

    677 vote(s)
    40.2%
  3. Undecided

    152 vote(s)
    9.0%
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  1. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Warlord

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    See, it's this argument that I don't understand. How does moving the slider every turn to meet your current wants take more skill than deciding beforehand?

    It's different, for sure. And I don't know yet if I like it better or not. But "dumbed down?" I just can't make that jump. If anything, the slider mechanic is dumbed down because it lets you easily fix mistakes. If the slider was added into CivV instead of removed, people would point to it as an example of the developers making the game easier.
     
  2. Yfelsung

    Yfelsung Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Except that only 2 of now 5 Civs have been Micro focused.

    Civ 1 and 2 were not very Micro focused and much more Macro. Civ 3 was Micro insanity, 4 was a little less.

    So with Civ 5, that makes 60% of all Civ games more Macro than Micro.

    That makes the Civ franchise a Macro based franchise.

    You could easily argue that this makes Civ 3 and 4 less Civ than Civ 5.
     
  3. Celevin

    Celevin Chieftain

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    My entire point was that since the OP doesn't like the game, it must be "dumbed down" - as otherwise he'd like it. I didn't come into the thread to argue about complexity, I've done that so much I've got a headache.

    I dislike arguments based on what was taken out, because when arguing for it, it sounds awesome and fits right in and everything is wonderful.
     
  4. GreyIago

    GreyIago Chieftain

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    Yeah, because regulating your economy should require one click and a drag rather than long-term planning. roflmao

    Yeah, you have a guaranteed partner and punching bag. You can pump them up with tech, units, and gold. That certainly makes a game more interesting.

    Nuff said.
     
  5. Ashbery76

    Ashbery76 Chieftain

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    Getting rid of :):):):) game mechanics like religion,predictable diplomacy and micromanaging 1000000 late game units is not dumbing down.

    Moderator Action: Profanity is not allowed on this forum. Thanks.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  6. taylor_cu

    taylor_cu Chieftain

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    I say Civ V is for children, teenages and/or noobs.
     
  7. wilson1225

    wilson1225 Chieftain

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    Random events, vassal states, and espionage were added to CIV 4 in expansions....
     
  8. Taan

    Taan Chieftain

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    Sep 27, 2010
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    When I talk about it I refer to "it" as Revolutions 2. That should give you a hint on what I voted..
     
  9. mauibound

    mauibound Chieftain

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    I've only had the game a few days so maybe I am arong, but there just seems to be so much less to do, unless you want to attack/attack/attack all the time. I love the new interface, but that seems to be the only upgrade (and I probably am not even getting the full value on that because my machine is not powerful enough to run it in all its glory). You can't tweak your civilization anywhere near as much as you used to be able to. The new happiness & culture models penalize you too much for growing too fast-- at least "growing" was something to do and gives you more cities so you have more units/improvements/problems to decide about and play with-- now I find myself waiting around endlessly for my few cities to build stuff interesting or to gather enough resources to make a gift to some city state or civ. so that at least I can get an interesting conversation going. At least in the old game, during these lulls, you could play with your spys, try to trade techs. with other civs., work on your religion, etc. In earlier Civ versions, stuff happened -- now it seems a whole lot of nothing-- so I get bored and I attack nearby civs. The best part about civilizations was always the myriad of options you had-- now they have crammed all that into fewer actual things to do-- buy a new social policy with culture and build great people.. thats it.. other than WAR
     
  10. vandyr

    vandyr Chieftain

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    Everybody that believes it has been dumbed down should read Lemmy's diagnosis in his huge play through thread. Its a very good read, and to be honest, how anyone can claim this move away from a slider-governed empire is 'dumbed down' is beyond me.

    To me, the game feels much more in depth and complex. I definitely have to put more thoughts into my actions now, which to me says quite the opposite of "dumbed down".
     
  11. Ikael

    Ikael Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
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    -Culture mongering, one of the funniest things on previous civilizations entries gets removed in order to make room for a more militaristic, less realistic civ.

    - No effective method for curving huge empires. Sorry, but the happiness mechanic might be simpler, but it just doesn't gets its job done, there is no possibility of creating a small yet powerful empire on this civ, the snowball effect is just too big

    - Wholly historically unaccurate situations and civilization traits like the Iroquois being an industrial superpower while Germany being a barbarian focused civ, just to name a few.

    - Decisions which they are really not decisions at all. Eg. Do I settle this great scientist or do I lightbulb this tech? That is no choice at all since it is pretty clear which one is always going to be the best one in every situation, period.
     
  12. Thoughtful Thug

    Thoughtful Thug Chieftain

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    I agree. And I am for sure certain that reading a lot of comments with different views on what they like and what they do dislike, all can agree the combat model is the best addition to the game. However, when you got too many artists and less programmers in the developer's spending money, then expect crappy ai, and less thoughts on civics and diplomacy to name a few. I guess they are (Firaxis) really answering the call from the publisher to make a game for a new demographic, and say, "screw the loyal fans."

    wow! Civilization 5 is eye-candy!:rolleyes:
     
  13. ThunderGod

    ThunderGod Chieftain

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    Having played this game quite a few times, I can say it is Dumbed down. Its very simplistic and caters to the casual player and not to the true players. I liked the micro aspects of the game, being able to choose my tax and science rates from the beginning, I am afraid this game was a waste of money. And lets not talk about the problems with steam (I have read quite a few complaints about the 16 hours it took to update) And yes, a game that needs an immediate update just after release? they tend to fail badly. Sid Mier needs to have his head examined for releasing this game early (as it was posted that it would not be released til November)

    So basically, this game is found wanting, and fails on so many levels.

    And the game falls into the catergory of timewaster's, things to do when you have a few hours to kill, not to be taken as a serious game at all

    TG
     
  14. Thalassicus

    Thalassicus Bytes and Nibblers

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    I do not agree it's been dumbed down. Combat favors positioning now, requires more thinking. In previous versions of civ you just had your one SOD and attacked. In IV I even had my options set up so the entire stack would attack at once.

    That said, the game does feel unfinished and rushed out. There's tons of balance issues glaringly obvious even after just playing a week.

    Bigger issue is combat AI is horrible. Going to war is like an "I win" button. Even against superior numbers and tech I roll over the AI without a single unit lost.
     
  15. TLF

    TLF Chieftain

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    The Soviets rapidly industrialized because they worked the people to death and pretty much enslaved them for the 'good of the State'.

    They made a National decision that was a bit like moving a slider.
     
  16. Apoll

    Apoll Chieftain

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    oops wrong thread. please delete the post. :D
     
  17. KingYosef

    KingYosef Chieftain

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    UPDATE ON POLL (9/27): Now the numbers continue to rise as 1 in every 3 players agree that Civ 5 has been dumb down, while 11 percent are uncertain.
     
  18. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Chieftain

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    Couldn't agree more.
     
  19. Flavorable

    Flavorable Chieftain

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    Oh, really, so thats what those 5 year plans were, right?

    Not even to mention that it was probably the fastest shift towards industrialization in global history, the fact is that an economy takes long term planning to be successful, and that absolute shifts in economic focus have very rarely led to prosperity.

    Civ V has its flaws, but the core mechanics have consistently been argued to be, if not equal, but vastly superior to Civ IVs in terms of depth.

    V combat > IV combat
    Social policies > Civics
    True diplomacy > manipulating numbers
    Real economic management > Instant sliders
    Happiness balance > Cottage factory
    City States > Religon/Espionage/Corporations combined
    Accessible Navy > Impossible Navy
    nonlinear Macro > formulaic Micro

    These all have been argued to the death, I've yet to see IV win on any of these.
     
  20. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    One in every three respondents agrees that it is dumbed down, and, forgive me for being cynical, but I suspect a thread with a title such as this will attract a disproportionate number of people who are after a whinge.

    Ah, yes, the good old "collectivise the means of production" slider from Civ4. How could we forget it? :rolleyes:


    I can't help but wonder what all these people think of chess. I mean, no sliders, no diplomacy, no tech-tree? Clearly, only the most pea-brained of simpletons would pursue such a shallow game. :mischief:
     
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