That sounds bad... I guess that ToA is mostly a score booster (earlier domination date), so much for that 'culture' wonder!
Who is working on HOF attempts w/o threads?
- Thread starter superslug
- Start date
denyd
Emperor
I use it in the early part of the game while I'm still busy building workers, settlers & units to fill in culture gaps and gain the upper hand on flips. About the time I get to Military Tradition, most cities have markets, cathedrals & libraries, so getting education allows me to start on univertities followed by temples and then banks (normally research banking next).
I used this strategy in COTM4, but missed SirPleb's date by about 15 turns. I think that anywhere a temple is handbuilt, the doubling does occur, regardless of ToA being active. Perhaps if the 1000 year double occurs while ToA is active, the double doesn't occur, but my core definitely was getting 4cpt for their temples.
Hmm. ok.. guess I was wrong then..
100k victory for babylonians on chieftain standard (pangea) submitted..
finish date: 1090AD.
Will make a writeup later
finish date: 1090AD.
Will make a writeup later
Nice one Gyathaar, and also for being the first other than space & I to use the new submission system 
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One thing I have for sure learned to do now is to use poprushing.. untill these 100k attempts I have perhaps poprushed stuff 50 times all together in all my games.. in this last game I was poprushing on average about 200 times I guess on average every turn the last 60 turns or so... 
I guess you had the Lux slider at 100%? You might not be able to rush quite so much on difficulties other than Chieftain as you will need to stay at >=0gpt.
I had 100% lux (in communiism, so it gave entertainment to all cities).. all 8 luxes.. JS Bachs, sixtine...
Still in the end some size 1 cities with cathedrals (double smiley faces from sixtine), temples and colloseums would still not stay happy at size 1... had to turn the single citizen into a specialist..
Drafing gave a lot more unhappiness than poprushing thou.. was mainly towns that I had drafted every turn for 30+ turns in a row that had these problems (in the end they grew so slow I just poprushed them down to size 1 so they would not use up tiles from other cities
)
Doing this allowed me to have a near linear growth in culture per turn from 650AD to 1010AD with roughly 100 cpt extra every turn. (I stopped rushing in 1010AD since there was no way I would be able to shave off another turn on finish date). In 1010AD I reached 3079cpt with 233 cities (had my first town flip to me in 1010AD)
It should be noted that untill 850AD I played without remembering that I didnt have to keep positive cashflow in chieftain... at this point I was still doing fine with 0% lux.
Still in the end some size 1 cities with cathedrals (double smiley faces from sixtine), temples and colloseums would still not stay happy at size 1... had to turn the single citizen into a specialist..
Drafing gave a lot more unhappiness than poprushing thou.. was mainly towns that I had drafted every turn for 30+ turns in a row that had these problems (in the end they grew so slow I just poprushed them down to size 1 so they would not use up tiles from other cities
)Doing this allowed me to have a near linear growth in culture per turn from 650AD to 1010AD with roughly 100 cpt extra every turn. (I stopped rushing in 1010AD since there was no way I would be able to shave off another turn on finish date). In 1010AD I reached 3079cpt with 233 cities (had my first town flip to me in 1010AD)
It should be noted that untill 850AD I played without remembering that I didnt have to keep positive cashflow in chieftain... at this point I was still doing fine with 0% lux.
Great game...
Your comments make it obvious that there still is room for improvement!!
I can't wait to see the next game.
Btw I cant find the place where this was mentionned.
What is the particularity of Chieftain again?
If you go in negative money, you get NO consequences at all?
(this might be useful for my games too...)
Your comments make it obvious that there still is room for improvement!!
I can't wait to see the next game.
Btw I cant find the place where this was mentionned.
What is the particularity of Chieftain again?
If you go in negative money, you get NO consequences at all?
(this might be useful for my games too...)
You loose no units or buildings when you go negative in chieftain..
BUT! even if you did there would not have been much consequense in my game.. I was building about 50 culture buildings per turn, so even if i lost one per turn from going negative it would still have been more effective to go negative cashflow.
In other words, the same tactic would work quite well at higher difficulties too...
There is definately lots of rooms for improvements on the win date.. i was very inexperienced with poprushing when i started.. and specially in the end I had to develop some interesting strats once most cities only had colluseums left to poprush... in 1000AD I think I managed to poprush something like 30 colluseums in one turn...
I dont think I feel like doing a similar game for some time (scrolling though all those cities every turn took its toll!).
In next game I would set up cities in special ways:
Once they have poprushed enough buildings to start to get unhappy, switch them over to worker production.. MM cities to have 10food/10shield , 5food/5shield , 4food/4shield, 3food/3shield and so on.. make them pump out workers for awhile...
Why workers? Well.. they cost 10 shields.. and if you join them to a city, you can use them to poprush improvements for 20 shields... while every other units (except settlers) only give 1/4 their shield value if you build them and disband them in another city, a worker will give up to twice their value.
If you dont need a worker immediately, there is always work for him to do in meantime too.. if all lands is improved (I never got mine fully improved), they can always plant and chop forests for extra shields.
Exception is cities that is buildt on fresh water.. they would be building explorers.. must likely the cheapest unit you can build for 20 shields, and give 5 shields when disbanded.. they should preferably be at size 6 +10 food so they can be drafted every round. Drafted infantery give 22 shields when disbanded, mechanized infantery 27 I think. Drafing adds a lot more unhappiness than poprushing, so switch over to worker production when city gets too unhappy, then draft whenever happyness allows. I was able to draft around 30 infantery every turn.
One drafted unit disbanded and one worker joined and poprushed allows a library to be rushed in a newly buildt town the round it is founded. The next turn join 2 workers, whilp worker, switch to temple and whip again... and you have new town produzing 5cpt 2 turns after it was founded, and it only cost you 30 shields from an already developed town (same as a temple for religious civ)
BUT! even if you did there would not have been much consequense in my game.. I was building about 50 culture buildings per turn, so even if i lost one per turn from going negative it would still have been more effective to go negative cashflow.
In other words, the same tactic would work quite well at higher difficulties too...
There is definately lots of rooms for improvements on the win date.. i was very inexperienced with poprushing when i started.. and specially in the end I had to develop some interesting strats once most cities only had colluseums left to poprush... in 1000AD I think I managed to poprush something like 30 colluseums in one turn...
I dont think I feel like doing a similar game for some time (scrolling though all those cities every turn took its toll!).
In next game I would set up cities in special ways:
Once they have poprushed enough buildings to start to get unhappy, switch them over to worker production.. MM cities to have 10food/10shield , 5food/5shield , 4food/4shield, 3food/3shield and so on.. make them pump out workers for awhile...
Why workers? Well.. they cost 10 shields.. and if you join them to a city, you can use them to poprush improvements for 20 shields... while every other units (except settlers) only give 1/4 their shield value if you build them and disband them in another city, a worker will give up to twice their value.
If you dont need a worker immediately, there is always work for him to do in meantime too.. if all lands is improved (I never got mine fully improved), they can always plant and chop forests for extra shields.
Exception is cities that is buildt on fresh water.. they would be building explorers.. must likely the cheapest unit you can build for 20 shields, and give 5 shields when disbanded.. they should preferably be at size 6 +10 food so they can be drafted every round. Drafted infantery give 22 shields when disbanded, mechanized infantery 27 I think. Drafing adds a lot more unhappiness than poprushing, so switch over to worker production when city gets too unhappy, then draft whenever happyness allows. I was able to draft around 30 infantery every turn.
One drafted unit disbanded and one worker joined and poprushed allows a library to be rushed in a newly buildt town the round it is founded. The next turn join 2 workers, whilp worker, switch to temple and whip again... and you have new town produzing 5cpt 2 turns after it was founded, and it only cost you 30 shields from an already developed town (same as a temple for religious civ)
Using that tactic on purpose is considered exploitive I believe though...
Going in negative on purpose and losing only one building per turn...
Thats why Im specially interested in Chieftain where I think it is allowed..
(Someone correct me about one or the other here?)
Going in negative on purpose and losing only one building per turn...
Thats why Im specially interested in Chieftain where I think it is allowed..
(Someone correct me about one or the other here?)
I dont see it listed in the HoF rules list over banned exploits.. thou it is not in the list of allowed ones either...
I know it is not allowed in GotMs, but several things banned there is allowed in HoF.
I assume it is allowed in chieftain atleast since Dianthus used it aswell
I know it is not allowed in GotMs, but several things banned there is allowed in HoF.
I assume it is allowed in chieftain atleast since Dianthus used it aswell
This is how my culture graph looked like (using the undocumented ctrl-c functionality in CRpViewer to extract it):
That doesn't mean ALL that much. Staff aren't immune to getting their games excluded. Just ask superslugGyathaar said:I assume it is allowed in chieftain atleast since Dianthus used it aswell
.However, in my opinion, deliberately going negative in gpt is very different on Chieftain than other difficulties. For other difficulties the intention is to penalise -ve gpt, but unfortunately the s/w doesn't penalise based on how -ve you go. For Chieftain there is no penalty, so this problem is not encountered.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
I am currently working on an odd situation here. I am playing huge C3C demi-god maps, and playing pretty much every start.
My current game is going to be a full house huge map 20k victory.
Does anyone ever try for these, or are they just insane?
The crappy start location and runaway neighbors limited my options early. I only got 1 AA wonder, 2 MA wonders, 2 Industrial wonders. (1 SGL rushed the great library.)
I will win in ~80 more turns, but they are hard-slogging turns, and I must prevent a 100k win. I really like the challenge of huge demigod maps. This will give me a win of every type on huge/large demigod, with the exception of VP's. I just thought of submitting to the HoF.
My current game is going to be a full house huge map 20k victory.
Does anyone ever try for these, or are they just insane?
The crappy start location and runaway neighbors limited my options early. I only got 1 AA wonder, 2 MA wonders, 2 Industrial wonders. (1 SGL rushed the great library.)
I will win in ~80 more turns, but they are hard-slogging turns, and I must prevent a 100k win. I really like the challenge of huge demigod maps. This will give me a win of every type on huge/large demigod, with the exception of VP's. I just thought of submitting to the HoF.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
I agree that on emporer and below huge maps are really easy to win 20k on. You just use mapstat/civassist/ocd checking of f4, and you can easily keep up and prebuild nicely to win. On DG and deity, it is very easy for an AI to become runaway. The cheaper tech costs/unit costs/inordinate # of nice cities the AI gets makes it quite a challenge to win culturally.
Has anyone ever thought of trying a 100k Sid game? To me, this would seem the most difficult type of epic game imaginable.
Has anyone ever thought of trying a 100k Sid game? To me, this would seem the most difficult type of epic game imaginable.
Dianthus said:That doesn't mean ALL that much. Staff aren't immune to getting their games excluded. Just ask superslug
However, in my opinion, deliberately going negative in gpt is very different on Chieftain than other difficulties. For other difficulties the intention is to penalise -ve gpt, but unfortunately the s/w doesn't penalise based on how -ve you go. For Chieftain there is no penalty, so this problem is not encountered.
I agree that this is sensible, and I believe this should be officialized in the rules.
