amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
I said that Al Gore would have won in 2016. He gained a lot of charisma after leaving the White House, not like the old robot veep we all knew then.
But 2024? Not seeing it.
Who should Democrats run in 2024?
- Thread starter Narz
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But 2024? Not seeing it.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Defund the police is a slogan that in practice means replacing police jobs with better trained civil service jobs more appropriate for the job, like conflict de-escalators and mental health counselors.
it’s also a wake up call to police that they need to remember the full “bad apple” quote, which is that it spoils the bunch, and we won’t tolerate vigilantes wearing a badge.
But opposition to the Green New Deal? You’re going to have to explain that one
EgonSpengler
Deity
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Yes, anybody who doesn't understand the slogan today is either willfully antagonistic or so lazy they can't be bothered to use Google or Wikipedia. Both offer simple, one-sentence explanations, right at the top of their respective pages.
No joke, just this morning I listened to a podcast about the (mis)appropriation of The Punisher's iconic skull logo by, among others, police officers who evidently don't see the irony in proudly displaying the logo of a character who is a critique of law enforcement as either incompetent or corrupt.
I see it as a positive thing. For every police officer that sports this logo, there are many (100's, 1000's?) of people who see it and understand what it really means. It is these people who mind and votes need to be changed, and it is more likely to be possible than the changing the minds of those who sport this logo.
Well, I just read it and it strikes me as more like something a student union would produce to show willing than an honest and productive solution from the most powerful people in the world to humanities most pressing problem. Whether anything more useful would have been possible is another question I guess.But opposition to the Green New Deal? You’re going to have to explain that one
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Sarin
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Oh, I do understand. But I find it stupid. Being a cop means that you might be confronted with situation where use of force is necessary, and you won't know that until you're smack in the middle of it. Such specialists have their place but it's not really overlapping with a police officer's job.
Edit: as for the Green Deal, I see it as populistic, shallow show measure. It will do nothing against the issue of "emission outsourcing"-that is, having everything done in other countries so you can claim carbon neutrality.
The point is that the tasks that should be handled by say mental health profesionals is currently being handled by police. So while there SHOULD not be overlap between these roles there currently is, and "defund the police" is one solution to that.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
That's right, and right now, we send the police to what should be other peoples' jobs.
Sarin
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Only because you see cops as last option thugs to shoot the problematic individual on sight.
Try finding out about how it works in a civilized country.
I think "defund the police" could have been called "make american police work like they do in civilized countries" but that may have got peoples back up even more than the one they went with.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
lol I don't. I just said something really neutral and you've flipped out.
You also didn't answer my only question to you in my original response to your first reply.
Sarin
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In civilized countries, police is trained to be first respondents in most situations. They can't simply back away without doing anything but call for a specialist. Those come in later when the situation is assessed, if there's time for them to respond. But quite often, the cops have to address the issue themselves. So they have to be properly trained. Yes, it's possible, that's pretty much how it works in many countries. To do so, you need a completely different approach, so taking up "Defund the police" slogan is erroneous at best. At worst...it's been taken up by some people to call for actual defunding of the police force, and actually started doing that in LA, Minneapolis and elsewhere.
I haven't flipped out. Honestly I have contempt for the US police force myself, but don't see anyone doing anything to change that for the better.
Oh, and I edited in that response later, but it really should not be necessary as I had that conversation already few posts above this.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Is there any documentation on how much it cost him? I'm not surprised he didn't do well, wasn't he a libertarian? Can't allow a libertarian to be in charge of anything. Plus he was pretty damn old from what I remember. Would be interesting to see how much the venture cost him though.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
In the final days, it was estimated that Perot spent $5 million a day on advertisements.[95] Overall, he had spent $40 million in October alone, and $60 million overall during the course of the campaign.[77]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot_1992_presidential_campaign
Thirty years ago, so you would have to adjust those for inflation. He didn't win any states, but he did get nearly 20% of the popular vote and actually finished 2nd in some states.
He would have been about 62 in 1992, so not that old. Younger than Biden, Reagan, Bush Sr. among others when they got elected.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
That's pretty expensive, it seems that you couldn't expect somebody like let's say Tom Hanks to be able to run without external support.. I suppose that's the problem, or a part of the problem - those with enough personal capital to run are greedy billionaires nobody likes, or not enough people would like.
Perot did better than I thought, you'd think a more charismatic character with better ideas would do even better (but of course the political climate is completely different these days too)
Perot did better than I thought, you'd think a more charismatic character with better ideas would do even better (but of course the political climate is completely different these days too)
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Last word on this from me: Perot made mistakes that money couldn’t fix, like his dropping out of the race only to reenter, or accusing the GOP of trying to sabotage his daughter’s wedding.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Doesn't everybody love Tom Hanks? I just threw him out as an example as a rich charismatic celebrity who most people seem to have a positive opinion of.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
RUN FORREST, RUN!
Tom Hanks is probably the only actor who'd've been allowed to play Mr. Rogers.
But for most people it means reduce spending on police departments: fewer cops, fewer programs. It is a terrible slogan. "Fund Law Enforcement!" would be better.