Whold this be a warcrime??

[bhsup]

Well, given that they pro-actively threw some back into the water, which IMHO is exponentionally worse than selectively picking up guards first due to room issues, I'd say the case for it being considered a war crime is stronger.

By the way, you may well be unaware, but the term "jap" is considered to be derogatory and/or racist. Need to use the full word. Not sure what that is the case with some nationalities and not with others (never heard of "Brit" being considered racist), but in the case of Japan, it's definitely a no-no.

 

[MobBoss]

Ah, well, you see, the Japanese and Germans were not too observant of the Geneva Conventions.....

 

[MobBoss]

Well, given that they pro-actively threw some back into the water, which IMHO is exponentionally worse than selectively picking up guards first due to room issues, I'd say the case for it being considered a war crime is stronger.

By the way, you may well be unaware, but the term "jap" is considered to be derogatory and/or racist. Need to use the full word. Not sure what that is the case with some nationalities and not with others (never heard of "Brit" being considered racist), but in the case of Japan, it's definitely a no-no.

Unless, of course, you are a Pearl Harbor survivor.

 

[bhsup]

Unless, of course, you are a Pearl Harbor survivor.

You know, I recall an interview on TV once with Senator Daniel Inouye. He is a Senator from Hawaii of Japanese descent. Anyway, he was talking about Pearl Harbor and said he recalled looking up, seeing the planes flying over, and thinking to himself "those damned Japs". That's always stuck with me because I tend to think that people accuse others of racism at times when it's more likely a case of "nationism".

Just FYI, he also fought in the 442nd Regiment.

Anyhoo, please pardon the interruption. Back to the war crimes at sea discussion.

 

[GinandTonic]

never heard of "Brit" being considered racist

Feel free old man.

Limy and pom too. Never even understood why roastbeef was an insult, but any french present - feel free. I think it is a power relationship thing. Kraut was off, now the germans are doing well again it is okish. New Zeelanders do well and no-one really hates them so Kiwi isnt offensive. Along the same lines Ozzies and Yanks. Frogs is a bit more problematic, you had better know the frenchman you are addressing is happy to call you a roastbeef.

The reclimation of words is interensting. Totenham Hotspurs (uk football) have a large jewish following and were disparodgingly known as the Yids. Now there official fanzine is The Yiddo and (aproving) chants of Yiddo, Yiddo etc are heard at matches.

 

[Vietcong]

Jap is short for japaniese
JAPaniese
its simply the first 3 letters in thear name..
u can call me a AME and i wholdnt care.

 

[bhsup]

You're American? I always rather took your location at face value and assumed you were Vietnamese; which confused me at times given some of your posts, but I never really doubted it.

 

[Vietcong]

im a vietnamiese agent sending american corperate secreats to vietnam.

 

[7ronin]

You know, I recall an interview on TV once with Senator Daniel Inouye. He is a Senator from Hawaii of Japanese descent. Just FYI, he also fought in the 442nd Regiment.

Please forgive the additional aside. Inouye lost an arm fighting the Germans. Also, the government recently upgraded his Distinguished Service Cross to the Medal of Honor.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

whold this be a war crime?? i hope not, becus i rather save me own gards and fellow country men then enamy pows.

Note: I didn't read all the posts here

This mighy be wierd, but couldn't the ppl on the boat throw a large rope for the pows and they would be draged across the ocean until they got to a island or smthing ? This way not all of them would have died ... some would survive the trip.

And no - i don't think it could be considered a warcrime. Not even the part where the pows were pushed back in the water since it is WAR and why save the enemy instead of your own people ...

There are so many other MUCH worse warcrimes that make this look like breaking a nail .

 

[Sidhe]

Yeah Like the bombing of Dresden, Hamburg, Bremen and Berlin. Nasty work that. Revenge is a dish best not served at all.

 

[Alpine Trooper]

The ship would never be full.

 

[JtheJackal]

The ship would never be full.

I agree, have people sleeping in the hallways or even on deck if you have to.

 

[Zardnaar]

Odd scenario but I wopuld hazard a guess that it isn't a war crime. There might be other reasons why the ship is "full" even if theres room on board. Food, operational requirements, size of the ships brig etc. In peacetime pack em in. In wartime filling your ship to the brim with presumably hostile POWs wouldn't be the best idea.

The Bismarck scenario is probably the closest thing to it that the allies had to deal with and I haven't heard of any Germans claiming that as a war crime leaving men in the sea. It falls into the tragic scenario for me rather than a premeditated warcrime.

 

[Jawz II]

if this happened in reality, it would be very hard to tell the guards from the prisoners, unless they were diffrent races.

also if you left the prisoners to die, its very possible that they would kill the guards before you had a chance to pick them all up.

 

[Lotus49]

All they have to say is: "Well, we feared there were enemy submarines in the area, and thus had no choice but to make haste vacating the scene. Such an unfortunate, and regretable circumstance. Our sympathy to the families of those lost to the sea."

Like with the Bismarck.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

I'd say the OP's incident was a warcrime.

A somewhat similar incident occurred to a relative of mine, when an American submarine torpedoed a Japanese merchant ship which was additionally transferring some British PoWs (my relative was one of the prisoners). When the Japanese crew realised the ship was sinking, they fastened down and locked the hatches on the hold which contained the PoWs.

The PoWs did manage to get break out before the ship sank, and some survived long enough to be picked up by another Japanese ship. But the behaviour of the original crew was appalling.

 

[CaptainF]

I'd say the OP's incident was a warcrime.

A somewhat similar incident occurred to a relative of mine, when an American submarine torpedoed a Japanese merchant ship which was additionally transferring some British PoWs (my relative was one of the prisoners). When the Japanese crew realised the ship was sinking, they fastened down and locked the hatches on the hold which contained the PoWs.

The PoWs did manage to get break out before the ship sank, and some survived long enough to be picked up by another Japanese ship. But the behaviour of the original crew was appalling.

This sounds like the Tsushima Maru incident.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

This sounds like the Tsushima Maru incident.

Just googled for this, and though the information seems a bit limited, it does sound awful.

Hard to know what else the crew of the USS Bowfin could practically have done though - there was extensive precedent for attacking non-military shipping by 1944, and it's inconceivable that they could have known that the Tsushima Maru was carrying principally children. I guess I'd say that this was a tragedy, but not a war crime. What do you reckon, Dawg ?

 

[Commy]

Breach of international maritime law.
Breach of the Second Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea.
Breach of the Third Geneva Convention for the Treatment of Prisoners of War
If there were civilians in the water then it would breach the Fourth Geneva Convention on the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.

It would also breach the G+T convention on being a passible member of the human race.

However, its important to know, was these conventions ratificated by the country of the ship.