Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
I really can't vote since I made up my own religion since I didn't like the others.
Why Are You Into Religion?
- Thread starter CurtSibling
- Start date
Sixchan
Emperor
Well, ignorance is the main cause of racism. Ignorance ain't bliss.
The way I see it, if there truly is a loving and caring God, he won't mind if people devote all their time to finding out about the world and helping each other, instead of worshipping him. Hopefully on Judgemant Day he would say to people: "You didn't believe in me, but you didn't believe in me for the right reasons. You may enter Heaven." or something like that.
If God sends me to Hell because of my lack of faith and not considering my good actions, then this God isn't as good as he's cracked up to be, and I'd go to Hell happily rather than be in his presence.
If God doesn't exist, well, what have I lost? I devoted my time to helping others, and I will be remembered for that.
Things shouldn't be left to imagination (I'm speaking from my position as a scientist), once you know what happens, you don't have to tell everyone (e.g. an atom is like a Solar System with the electrons orbiting the protons and neutrons like planets, right? Wrong!), only those who need or want to know.
Blackadder
Rooted to the spot
A good responce Sixchan!
Worthy of a scientist!
The only thing is I never said God was omnipotent, (if he does exist, in what sense of existence does he exist in i.e. if you believe in God as simply being life-force, this can be proved everyday since you are normally alive when you wake up each morning. If you think of him as a complete power, belief is slightly more difficult, but not impossible.)
Lets all just do what we think is best and hope it is the right thing we do. We can all worry about religion when we are dead, as you said.
Worthy of a scientist!
The only thing is I never said God was omnipotent, (if he does exist, in what sense of existence does he exist in i.e. if you believe in God as simply being life-force, this can be proved everyday since you are normally alive when you wake up each morning. If you think of him as a complete power, belief is slightly more difficult, but not impossible.)
Lets all just do what we think is best and hope it is the right thing we do. We can all worry about religion when we are dead, as you said.
Daaraa
King
I am religious. By what standards....well sometimes I feel like I act like a fundamental nutcase. Other times like a real heathen.
In anycase, I came to my beliefs on my own after growing up and going to church with my parents. A lot of my friends went too so it was no big deal.
In terms of other religions besides mine, I would never say anyone else is "going to hell because they don't belong to my religion." In fact I would argue against anyone saying that to anyone. I feel all religions have certain "truths" (truths as I beleive them to be) in them. Some more than others.
What I like in my religion is that you can beleive in the different doctrines on different levels and people won't condemn you.
As to what I beleive "faith" is, I feel that it is the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
I also feel that everyone is entitled to thier own beliefs. And that they should have the privledge of worshipping according to thier desires as long as it does not affect others. (Islamic fundamentalists are an example of people who affect others. What they did was morally wrong no matter what your beleifs are)
I might encourage people to share my beliefs, but I will _never_ force anyone, try to convince them or "prove" anything. I believe that the only way to "convince" someone is that they ask God as stated in James 1:5. And even then I didn't do any "convincing".
I do appeciate this thread and the tolerance already displayed.
Most of the time I don't post anything religious for all the flaming that goes on. In fact this is my first religious post anywhere 
Thanks.
In anycase, I came to my beliefs on my own after growing up and going to church with my parents. A lot of my friends went too so it was no big deal.
In terms of other religions besides mine, I would never say anyone else is "going to hell because they don't belong to my religion." In fact I would argue against anyone saying that to anyone. I feel all religions have certain "truths" (truths as I beleive them to be) in them. Some more than others.
What I like in my religion is that you can beleive in the different doctrines on different levels and people won't condemn you.
As to what I beleive "faith" is, I feel that it is the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
I also feel that everyone is entitled to thier own beliefs. And that they should have the privledge of worshipping according to thier desires as long as it does not affect others. (Islamic fundamentalists are an example of people who affect others. What they did was morally wrong no matter what your beleifs are)
I might encourage people to share my beliefs, but I will _never_ force anyone, try to convince them or "prove" anything. I believe that the only way to "convince" someone is that they ask God as stated in James 1:5. And even then I didn't do any "convincing".
I do appeciate this thread and the tolerance already displayed.
Most of the time I don't post anything religious for all the flaming that goes on. In fact this is my first religious post anywhere Thanks.
SpacemanSpiff
Rational Spiritualist
In some ways, I'm a lot like many of the other posters here (esp. Flatlander): not part of a "religion" (disillusioned by them) but certain there is something "higher" ... something out there going on. I can't prove what it is, but I "know" it (not like knowing facts, but an inner knowing from coming in contact with something ... like stormerne said). And in the absence of proof, people will still end up believing SOMEthing, whether it's this God or that God or multiple Gods or no God at all. For me, it might as well be this as anything else.
I was raised United Methodist and was never comfortable with religion. For example, I always resisted the idea that Jesus was "Lord" (that was always just God to me) and that bodily resurrection was a requirement in faith. I've since gone through cycles of church and no church, going to whatever demononation my girlfriend believed, eventually teaching Sunday school and then refusing to attend at all.
Where I am now (because I'm constantly evolving as I learn more and come in contact with more) is best summarized by the book series "Conversations with God". I should point out that I did not learn my beliefs from these books, but rather these words (supposedly from God to an average person) confirmed what I always believed ... many things my religion had taught me to "stuff" were reawakened and up for discussion again ... things I felt were normal but I had been taught to feel guilty about were allowed to be challenged ... so far this is the only view of God I've come across that makes complete sense to me (I was nodding and saying "yeah, I knew I knew that" and "I've thought/said that before" all the way through it). Even if one doesn't believe it came directly from "God", it's still a very cool view of God (or whatever we choose to call It) and the Universe, IMNSHO.
Summary of my personal beliefs: I believe we are all one and all a part of God and that, as God, we created this physical place so we could experience, with senses we don't have in the ethereal, the unconditional love that we are naturally. As such, we are essentially playing a virtual reality game (that we can come back to in different forms again and again) for the sake of experience, as opposed to trying to figure out what things God likes and doesn't like so we can avoid eternal suffering.
I feel that, although we are judgmental and many times obsessed with right and wrong, God is not, so there is no judgment and divine preference and Hell ... just returning to God when we either permanently screw up this body, or wear it out over time. If we were created in the Creator's image, it is that we have the same ability to create whatever we want in our lives.
Many people don't like this idea ... that there is no right and wrong laid down by God ... that without fear of Hell, people would do whatever horrible things they want. I simply disagree. As we can see, those of us here without religion are quite naturally trying our best to live good lives, however we have each defined that. We didn't need religion to do it, but if that's the way you choose to access the same thing, that's fine, too.
I feel those who harm their fellow men & women have just lost touch with the inner knowing that we are all connected ... they feel separate and lonely, unloved and callous towards others ... and religion won't help "keep those people in line" anyway.
Like others here, I have a hard time believing in a God who is supposed to be "good" who would allow or cause any everlasting harm or torment on any soul for any reason. I also have a hard time believing that God could ever be offended, that anything divine would desire (much less request) any worship, and that God would create something possible that he would send us to Hell for (entrapment).
But, even so, this view allows every other belief about God to co-exist without problem. We're all making it up ... so I believe what I believe and you are free to believe what you believe ... and we'll all be alright in the end. I say we ought to have some fun doing it together!
[EDIT: Fix the spelling mistakes I noticed (among the many I'm sure I didn't).]
Peace and good wishes to all.
Spiff
I was raised United Methodist and was never comfortable with religion. For example, I always resisted the idea that Jesus was "Lord" (that was always just God to me) and that bodily resurrection was a requirement in faith. I've since gone through cycles of church and no church, going to whatever demononation my girlfriend believed, eventually teaching Sunday school and then refusing to attend at all.
Where I am now (because I'm constantly evolving as I learn more and come in contact with more) is best summarized by the book series "Conversations with God". I should point out that I did not learn my beliefs from these books, but rather these words (supposedly from God to an average person) confirmed what I always believed ... many things my religion had taught me to "stuff" were reawakened and up for discussion again ... things I felt were normal but I had been taught to feel guilty about were allowed to be challenged ... so far this is the only view of God I've come across that makes complete sense to me (I was nodding and saying "yeah, I knew I knew that" and "I've thought/said that before" all the way through it). Even if one doesn't believe it came directly from "God", it's still a very cool view of God (or whatever we choose to call It) and the Universe, IMNSHO.
Summary of my personal beliefs: I believe we are all one and all a part of God and that, as God, we created this physical place so we could experience, with senses we don't have in the ethereal, the unconditional love that we are naturally. As such, we are essentially playing a virtual reality game (that we can come back to in different forms again and again) for the sake of experience, as opposed to trying to figure out what things God likes and doesn't like so we can avoid eternal suffering.
I feel that, although we are judgmental and many times obsessed with right and wrong, God is not, so there is no judgment and divine preference and Hell ... just returning to God when we either permanently screw up this body, or wear it out over time. If we were created in the Creator's image, it is that we have the same ability to create whatever we want in our lives.
Many people don't like this idea ... that there is no right and wrong laid down by God ... that without fear of Hell, people would do whatever horrible things they want. I simply disagree. As we can see, those of us here without religion are quite naturally trying our best to live good lives, however we have each defined that. We didn't need religion to do it, but if that's the way you choose to access the same thing, that's fine, too.
I feel those who harm their fellow men & women have just lost touch with the inner knowing that we are all connected ... they feel separate and lonely, unloved and callous towards others ... and religion won't help "keep those people in line" anyway.
Like others here, I have a hard time believing in a God who is supposed to be "good" who would allow or cause any everlasting harm or torment on any soul for any reason. I also have a hard time believing that God could ever be offended, that anything divine would desire (much less request) any worship, and that God would create something possible that he would send us to Hell for (entrapment).
But, even so, this view allows every other belief about God to co-exist without problem. We're all making it up ... so I believe what I believe and you are free to believe what you believe ... and we'll all be alright in the end. I say we ought to have some fun doing it together!
[EDIT: Fix the spelling mistakes I noticed (among the many I'm sure I didn't).]
Peace and good wishes to all.
Spiff
andycapp
Grumpy Old Griper
I was baptised and raised as a Methodist (now called the Uniting church in Australia) although most of my schooling was at an Anglican school.
My family and I lived next to the Methodist church and were involved in many of the church activities. Apart from attending sunday school (and later teaching sunday school) and church I played tennis and cricket for the church teams and was involved in most of the social functions put on by the church such as dances etc.
The local church was central to my sense of community, as I venture to say it probably was for many people of my generation, and earlier generations in most parts of Australia. I wasn't forced to participate in the activities of the church, it was something my parents encouraged and I wanted to do because my friends were involved and because most of the activities held some attraction - not least the possibility of meeting girls
.
The Christian teachings of my youth were ones of love and compassion not those of judgement and damnation. There was the encouragement to understand the teachings of Jesus and the Bible rather than just accept the literal word.
Both of my parents are articulate and highly educated people who have always encouraged me (and my siblings) in the pursuit of knowledge and understanding of the world we live in, which includes the Christian faith.
And herein lies my biggest dilema with organised religion, the gap between the desire to understand the world (and my place in it) through rational and logical thought/investigation and the leap of faith that is required to commit yourself to a religion.
I also strongly dislike the religious bureaucracies and hierarchies whilst acknowledging the need for both in any 'organised' religion.
Ironically (in the sense of religious bureaucracy and hierarchy), I have married a girl who is a practising Catholic which, incidentally is the best thing that I have ever done not because of the religion she practises but because of the person she is.
My wife happily practices her religion and I attempt to live my life by following (often unsuccessfully) the teachings of Jesus without any formal involvement in a Christian church. I believe that the teachings of Jesus provide a sound basis to live my life and relate to other people whilst not really giving a damn (pardon the pun) about my own salvation.
Do I believe in God? I would like to believe in some sort of rational, benevolent and omniscient being giving order and purpose to human life but the great suffering I see in the world around me makes it very difficult to believe this is true - and the line about god and his works being beyond human comprehension simply doesn't cut it with me.
I will admit that part of the attraction in a belief system that includes an after life is the hope that you will again be with those that you loved but are parted from by death.
If all this sounds pathetically confused and ignorant so be it - I will, like most people I suspect, continue to search for the answers.
My family and I lived next to the Methodist church and were involved in many of the church activities. Apart from attending sunday school (and later teaching sunday school) and church I played tennis and cricket for the church teams and was involved in most of the social functions put on by the church such as dances etc.
The local church was central to my sense of community, as I venture to say it probably was for many people of my generation, and earlier generations in most parts of Australia. I wasn't forced to participate in the activities of the church, it was something my parents encouraged and I wanted to do because my friends were involved and because most of the activities held some attraction - not least the possibility of meeting girls
.The Christian teachings of my youth were ones of love and compassion not those of judgement and damnation. There was the encouragement to understand the teachings of Jesus and the Bible rather than just accept the literal word.
Both of my parents are articulate and highly educated people who have always encouraged me (and my siblings) in the pursuit of knowledge and understanding of the world we live in, which includes the Christian faith.
And herein lies my biggest dilema with organised religion, the gap between the desire to understand the world (and my place in it) through rational and logical thought/investigation and the leap of faith that is required to commit yourself to a religion.
I also strongly dislike the religious bureaucracies and hierarchies whilst acknowledging the need for both in any 'organised' religion.
Ironically (in the sense of religious bureaucracy and hierarchy), I have married a girl who is a practising Catholic which, incidentally is the best thing that I have ever done not because of the religion she practises but because of the person she is.
My wife happily practices her religion and I attempt to live my life by following (often unsuccessfully) the teachings of Jesus without any formal involvement in a Christian church. I believe that the teachings of Jesus provide a sound basis to live my life and relate to other people whilst not really giving a damn (pardon the pun) about my own salvation.
Do I believe in God? I would like to believe in some sort of rational, benevolent and omniscient being giving order and purpose to human life but the great suffering I see in the world around me makes it very difficult to believe this is true - and the line about god and his works being beyond human comprehension simply doesn't cut it with me.
I will admit that part of the attraction in a belief system that includes an after life is the hope that you will again be with those that you loved but are parted from by death.
If all this sounds pathetically confused and ignorant so be it - I will, like most people I suspect, continue to search for the answers.
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