Why did God create atheists?

[Birdjaguar]

Yes that's one I've heard before too but the notion that we can choose to overide our "sinful" instincts wouldn't address the point that to do so is easier for some people than others.

Why does this "God" play favourites?

Christian thought has evolved to put choice in the hands of followers and empower them to be good. That is part of its appeal. The genetic component of our nature is a new concept and christians do not have an answer for that yet. It wasn't always so. In 200 AD Church father Origen wrote that all souls fell away from god and those that fell the furthest had a harder time being good, but over time all souls would be joined to god in the end. Even the devil. Salvation was for all. He referred to this passage as a source:

25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[c] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

 

[shortguy]

Hell is for people beyond reform. Hell is for people who reject God.

My question is, why does God say, "As punishment for rejecting me, you're going to Hell" rather than, say, "As punishment for rejecting me, you're going to be conked upside the head with a wet noodle"? Why must God necessarily punish those who reject him with Hell?

If God "made us good again", that would mean eliminating our free will - do you want that?

WHY NOT!!??

If "free will" provides eternal damnation to most of the people who have ever lived, then how on earth can you still consider it good?

And anyway, why must a being with free will necessarily sin? Humans are that way, but why must you assume that God cannot create beings with free will but who don't sin? And if he can, why didn't he?

 

[blackheart]

And anyway, why must a being with free will necessarily sin? Humans are that way, but why must you assume that God cannot create beings with free will but who don't sin? And if he can, why didn't he?

Because if that were to happen the Churches would loose their grips.

 

[Quasar1011]

Wait... Isn't God all powerful? Why not just make us good again?

He has. At least, it is a gift that is offered to all. You just have to receive it.

Romans 3:22
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

If he has the power to change something so important for the better, why not do it? What is stopping him?

You are. It is your free will choice. Do you want to be righteous, or not?

 

[ironduck]

If he has the power to change something so important for the better, why not do it? What is stopping him?

You are. It is your free will choice. Do you want to be righteous, or not?

Do you realize how incredibly condemning and arrogant you sound?

How is Xeven responsible for the suffering of all other people in the world?

 

[Yom]

Am I on the opposing side's ignore list or something? Nothing that I've said has been responded or even referred to.

 

[Quasar1011]

Do you realize how incredibly condemning and arrogant you sound?

I am not condemning you, friend. I don't even have the power to do so.

But, do you want the truth, or not? He asked a question, and I responded, and then asked a question in turn. If merely asking a question should make one take offense, then I should do so here. But I don't.

How is Xeven responsible for the suffering of all other people in the world?

Who said he was? And why are you speaking for him? Are you feeling guilty, or something?

 

[ironduck]

I am not condemning you, friend. I don't even have the power to do so.

But, do you want the truth, or not? He asked a question, and I responded, and then asked a question in turn. If merely asking a question should make one take offense, then I should do so here. But I don't.

Who said he was? And why are you speaking for him? Are you feeling guilty, or something?

I'm not speaking for him, I'm simply wondering if you realize how nasty your statement sounds. According to you, the 'truth' is that Xeven is preventing your god from changing the world to the better. Unless I completely misread your statement.

But how can you know if Xeven is doing anything to prevent anyone from improving the world? Most likely he is not. I find it curious that you bring up guilt, because you seem to be laying guilt on Xeven for standing in the way of your god's intention to improve the world.

 

[ironduck]

Am I on the opposing side's ignore list or something? Nothing that I've said has been responded or even referred to.

Don't worry, most questions in this thread haven't been answered by anyone as far as I can tell

 

[carlosMM]

there is no god, thus no creation. we evolved, and we will outcompete you believers

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Is Gandhi in hell?

A far better question is "Is anybody in Hell?"

Since there is no Hell and it's not a tenet of Christianity, let's ignore it as a strawman argument.

 

[Quasar1011]

According to you, the 'truth' is that Xeven is preventing your god from changing the world to the better. Unless I completely misread your statement.

You misread it, or read between the lines, or something!

Xeven is not preventing God from doing anything, except where it concerns Xeven. God will not countermand Xeven's free will. Could Xeven be doing things that make this world better? I don't see why not.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Yes that's one I've heard before too but the notion that we can choose to overide our "sinful" instincts wouldn't address the point that to do so is easier for some people than others.

Why does this "God" play favourites?

Who says that he does? Has it occurred to you that the fallible humans who claim to know what the rules are, and who is saved and who is not, could be WRONG?

If, and I'm not for one picosecond saying that I agree that it is, IF, the tendency towards homosexuality, or even faith, has genetic factors, then God will know that about a person too, and can weigh that evidence in terms of how it affects each individual's struggle not to sin.

 

[FredLC]

A far better question is "Is anybody in Hell?"

Since there is no Hell and it's not a tenet of Christianity, let's ignore it as a strawman argument.

Well, let me rephrase it in a manner which addressing the unfairness in the criteria supposed to select the blessed people cannot be dodged or disregarded as "not a tenet of christianity":

"Is Gandhi not in heaven???"

Regards .

 

[FearlessLeader2]

How do you know he's not? Only 144,000 are going there, and they're described as men that have not defiled themselves with women, or a lot of other stuff. I think Ghandi had kids, IIRC. I could be wrong. If he's neve been with a woman, he could be, was a pretty decent guy even if he did defile himself with women, almost certain to get resurrected and live on earth forever whether he gets to heaven or not.

 

[ironduck]

If, and I'm not for one picosecond saying that I agree that it is, IF, the tendency towards homosexuality, or even faith, has genetic factors, then God will know that about a person too, and can weigh that evidence in terms of how it affects each individual's struggle not to sin.

What does homosexuality have to do with any of this?

 

[ironduck]

You misread it, or read between the lines, or something!

Xeven is not preventing God from doing anything, except where it concerns Xeven. God will not countermand Xeven's free will. Could Xeven be doing things that make this world better? I don't see why not.

Well, I'm glad you don't think Xeven somehow stands in the way of your god's intention for people to be happy. And I'm sure Xeven is doing plenty of stuff to make the world better.

 

[FredLC]

Fearless, I am actually not the one wanting to pursuit that line of argument, I just think that the manner in which you answered the original question did nothing but dodge the subject.

Now that you have properly answered what was really asked, I choose to retire and leave it to the one wanting to use it to make a point (if so such person wishes).

As for me, I don't know. Well, I think he won't go to heaven or ressurrect, because I don't think there is a heaven or that the fair among the dead will live again someday... but following this discussion would be quite O.T.

Regards .

 

[FearlessLeader2]

What does homosexuality have to do with any of this?

It's fornication, so it's a sin. Sin is part of the topic currently.

 

[ironduck]

How do you know he's not? Only 144,000 are going there, and they're described as men that have not defiled themselves with women, or a lot of other stuff. I think Ghandi had kids, IIRC. I could be wrong. If he's neve been with a woman, he could be, was a pretty decent guy even if he did defile himself with women, almost certain to get resurrected and live on earth forever whether he gets to heaven or not.

Ehh.. what? Defile himself with women? Is sex now a bad thing in your optics too?