bobgote
Trousers
but who created evolution? :checkmateBasketCase said:
Why did God create atheists?
- Thread starter Narz
- Start date
Quasar1011
King of Sylvania
Raijer said:
God didn't "create" the devil. God created Lucifer. God gave Lucifer free will. Lucifer used that free will, to go against God's will. That is when Lucifer became Satan.
Is the devil the source of all sin? No. And to prove this to mankind, Jesus is coming back to rule the Earth from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. During this time, the devil will be locked up in the abyss.
Did God create atheists? No. God created 2 humans, and gave those humans the power of pro-creation. Every child descended from those 2 humans has been given a free will. Many choose to disbelieve God's existence. That is their choice. But it doesn't mean that "God created atheists". The only time God creates people in this day and age, is when a sinner becomes "born again".
Raijer
The 736th Beatle
bobgote said:
So you're say the whole believer vs. non-believer battle played out here in the threads of CFC OT are merely a manifestation of the Lord's Ego as it confronts the all mighty Id? Dude! You are a theological GENIUS!!
Quasar1011
King of Sylvania
Raijer said:
I'm not explaining away the problem of evil. Jesus bled it away.
bobgote
Trousers
...so he created satan, yeah?Quasar1011 said:
that's right, because god created satan, so god is the source of all sin. just as he is the source of all good.
... so he created atheists, yeah?
bobgote
Trousers
damn straight. and thankyou *tips hat*Raijer said:So you're say the whole believer vs. non-believer battle played out here in the threads of CFC OT are merely a manifestation of the Lord's Ego as it confronts the all mighty Id? Dude! You are a theological GENIUS!!
Quasar1011
King of Sylvania
In the same way that the NFL created the Baltimore Ravens.
Raijer
The 736th Beatle
Quasar1011 said:
If God created Lucifer, knowing, as he did, FULL WELL the outcome of his creation (i.e. the Devil), I cannot, for the life of me, think of a more evil and horrible act. Sluffing off God's responsibility in the evil infested universe he created is nothing more than slight of hand. The devils rise, the world burns, people suffer, and yet only one entity remains free from guilt - the one who created it all? Sorry. I don't buy it at all.
If God exists in all of those times and knows all of our choices, then the choices must be foregone conclusions. If this is the case, then there is no free will, as the future is predetermined.Quasar1011 said:You are thinking 4-dimensionally there. God has at least 2, and perhaps an infinite number of dimensions of time, in which to operate. God already exists in the year 3005, 6005, 9005, etc. This is why He knows the choices of our free will; He is already far beyond the time the choice was made. Knowing said choice, and fixing said choice, are 2 different things. But try convincing a devout disbeliever in the supernatural of this...
bobgote
Trousers
what a hopeless analogy to give to an australian...what the hell does that even mean?Quasar1011 said:
not quite. evil was always going to exist. this way it was simply personified. and evil and good must exist in equal proportions - it's the nature of things. and if you manifest yourself through creation, and your creation feels guilt, how can you not feel it yourself?Raijer said:
Shadylookin
master debater
Quasar1011 said:You are thinking 4-dimensionally there. God has at least 2, and perhaps an infinite number of dimensions of time, in which to operate. God already exists in the year 3005, 6005, 9005, etc. This is why He knows the choices of our free will; He is already far beyond the time the choice was made. Knowing said choice, and fixing said choice, are 2 different things. But try convincing a devout disbeliever in the supernatural of this...
then the determinists are correct thus negating free-will
actually it is believers that decide to forsake atheism/agnosticism. Babies are born without an instilled religion(not believing in any god), if they were there would be no need for churches
. As for lucifer, god knows the he will betray him before he creates him and creates him anyway, then gets mad when he betrays him. You can't create a monster and complain when he knocks over a few buildings
Raijer
The 736th Beatle
bobgote said:
I take back what I said about your genius. :shakehead
bobgote said:
I'll buy into this. Of course, it kinda tarnishes God's "perfect" goody-two-shoes rep though.
Quasar1011
King of Sylvania
Is God ultimately responsible for evil? Yes. But what are you going to do? Complain to God for giving you a free will? Prefer that you had been created as a robot?Raijer said:
God did not create the universe as evil, but as good. So why aren't you complaining to Satan, about him messing everything up? Wouldn't that be more logical? If you complain about the one who gave free will and a perfect world, rather than the one who ruined said perfect world by exercising his free will, you begin to sound like a Christophobe.
Quasar1011
King of Sylvania
God isn't the one doing the complaining. You are.Shadylookin said:
Xeven the God
Democratic-Marxist
No. A god did not create atheists because gods don't exist.
I can't even believe this. I don't think good and evil exist in equal proportions. I think that they are just words that we as a society made up to personify specific actions that we deem are either acceptable or unacceptable. Nothing is inherently good or evil, if just has a label given to it by our cultures.
That's not to say that I condone that actions that our society deems 'evil'... It's just me saying that I think there isn't a true nature of good or evil because they don't exist... Just like invisible men in the sky and monsters under the bed. They aren't real. They are inventions of the human mind.
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[threadjack]bobgote said:
I can't even believe this. I don't think good and evil exist in equal proportions. I think that they are just words that we as a society made up to personify specific actions that we deem are either acceptable or unacceptable. Nothing is inherently good or evil, if just has a label given to it by our cultures.
That's not to say that I condone that actions that our society deems 'evil'... It's just me saying that I think there isn't a true nature of good or evil because they don't exist... Just like invisible men in the sky and monsters under the bed. They aren't real. They are inventions of the human mind.
[/threadjack]
Raijer
The 736th Beatle
Quasar1011 said:
To be perectly frank, I find the whole thing nothing more than a myth. I don't believe in God or the Devil. I just find the logical loop-de-loops spouted in the religious defense of God entertaining.
Hotpoint
Rome Treaty Legions
One problem with the whole "free-will" argument for Atheism, or any other behaviour deemed "sinful" or "immoral" is that we are increasingly finding genetic predispositions towards, or against, such personality traits.
The question then is why does God make it easier for some people not to "sin" than others? Why is the game rigged in favour of some and against others from birth?
The question then is why does God make it easier for some people not to "sin" than others? Why is the game rigged in favour of some and against others from birth?
Quasar1011
King of Sylvania
It means that the NFL didn't really create the Baltimore Ravens as such. They had been the Cleveland Browns, but moved to the city of Baltimore. The NFL forced them to change their nickname from Browns.bobgote said:
In much the same way, God created Lucifer. When Lucifer moved from heaven to Hell, God made him change his name to Satan. The devil went from being a "light-bearer" to "the adversary".
Raijer
The 736th Beatle
Sending "sinners" to roast in hell for eternity is a pretty loud complaint.Quasar1011 said:God isn't the one doing the complaining. You are.
