Why did they declare war?

[NintendoTogepi]

I'm completely baffled.

So here's the story.

I'm playing a game as England, Elizabeth (OCC but that's not important).

So I'm at war with several civilizations. Three of them, infact. (Byzantines, Egyptians and Arabians)

Mao Zedong is at war with Egyptians as well and Friendly towards me. He's Annoyed with the Arabians and Cautious with the Byzantine's.

Alexander is at war with the same three as me and also Friendly towards me.

Now these wars go on for a while, and I'm doing great against Justianian. Alexander makes peace with the Arabians and Egyptians, and then suddenly, about 5 turns later...

Alexander and Mao Zedong BOTH declare war on me on the same turn! I can't figure out why this happened. They were both friendly with me (with Alexander's only negative thing with me being that I was of a different religion, and Mao didn't have a single negative thing with me) and I can't figure out why this would happen.

I ended up bribing them for peace about 8 turns later when they started talking to me again, but I still cannot figure out why they made a DOW on me.

Do any of you guys know?

P.S. My state religion was Confucianism, Mao Zedong had Free Religion and Alexander was Hindu.

 

[Bleys]

Check your power ranking. If you are weak, they dont care, they will come for you. Another important reason not to neglect building units.

 

[NintendoTogepi]

Check your power ranking. If you are weak, they dont care, they will come for you. Another important reason not to neglect building units.

Power ranking? What's that?

I had quite a bit of units and was switching between 1st, 2nd and 3rd in Score. (me, Mao and Augustus Caesar were all like 10 point difference in score)

 

[Bleys]

In one of the screens is graph, which has various game "standings" such as Power, GNP, food output, and score. Select the Power one, and see how you stack up. You may have a bunch of units, but if the other civs have more, they will attack.

Its a good graph to check regularly no matter what. You can see who is building up an army, or if you have dropped off, etc.

 

[NintendoTogepi]

In one of the screens is graph, which has various game "standings" such as Power, GNP, food output, and score. Select the Power one, and see how you stack up. You may have a bunch of units, but if the other civs have more, they will attack.

Its a good graph to check regularly no matter what. You can see who is building up an army, or if you have dropped off, etc.

Ah.

I would go check, but it'd probably be inaccurate because now I've vassalized Justinian.

 

[Bleys]

I would check it regularly anyway. You can usually avoid having some of the more stupid-aggressive civs come calling if you stay just above them, without having to worry about breaking up your infrastructure build-up too baddly.

 

[Mesousa]

P.S. My state religion was Confucianism, Mao Zedong had Free Religion and Alexander was Hindu.

It's still possible you've been Apostolic Palace'd. "Declare war on the infidels" will get all members to declare on someone if it passes, even if they individually wouldn't.

 

[needsomesleep]

could be that one of your enemies bribed them. Maybe gave them a shinny new technology to join in the fight?

 

[AlessioCerci]

Apostolic Palace Resoultion. Read about it in the civilopedia.

 

[Gooblah]

For a proper analysis, I'd recommend you post some screenshots. Anyways, I'll offer my analysis as close as possible to the situation:

1) The Situation: 6 Civs: You, China, Greece, Byzantium, Egypt, Arabia;

Originally, it was a 3v3: The former 3 versus the latter 3. Now, because of this, your relations with China and Greece were great, even though you and Greece were of different religions. Next, Greece makes peace with Egypt and Arabia. Some turns after this, you vassalize Byzantium, and following this, the other two declare war on you.

If CivA capitulates to CivB (like Byzantium did to you), any Civ still at war with CivA automatically goes to war with CivB after the capitulation, due to the fact that if war is declared on the vassal, war is declared on the master. This may explain why the war occured.

 

[The Rook]

Alexander and Mao Zedong BOTH declare war on me on the same turn! I can't figure out why this happened. They were both friendly with me (with Alexander's only negative thing with me being that I was of a different religion, and Mao didn't have a single negative thing with me) and I can't figure out why this would happen.

If you vassalised Justinian, then I believe the AI's attitude to you would be averaged with your vassal's (this is how the AI calculates attitudes with other AIs). Average cautious with friendly, and you get pleased. Both Mao and Alexander only have 80% peace probability at pleased, this means they can make a decision to attack you. At friendly, their peace probability is 100%, so they will never make a decision to attack you, although they could still declare, if the decision came before their attitude turned to friendly.

BTW, the AI normally "decides" to go to war many turns before they "declare". If the AI is at peace, and they have "enough on our hands" when you check the war bribe options, they are planing to go to war with someone, possibly you.

Alex and Mao can only be bribed to go to war, if their attitude with the 3rd party is pleased or worse.

 

[cripp7]

so you have to be careful about which AI you vassal?

 

[Bleys]

AP as the cause makes more sense than Power rankings (although I have had simultanious DoWs from low power, I think my neighbor "traded" for it).

I dont have any expansions so I never considered that possibility, I dont even really understand how the AP works, to be honest.

 

[Winston Hughes]

If CivA capitulates to CivB (like Byzantium did to you), any Civ still at war with CivA automatically goes to war with CivB after the capitulation, due to the fact that if war is declared on the vassal, war is declared on the master.

That's not how it works, thankfully. IIRC it's like this:

If, say, Korea is at war with Japan, and China takes on Korea as a voluntary vassal, then China joins the war against Japan (and gets the DOW penalties to diplomacy).

If, however, both China and Japan are at war with Korea, and Korea capitulates to China, then the war is over and all three are at peace with one another (unless China and Japan were already at war before the Korean capitulation).

In the latter case, Japan may choose to attack the China-Korea axis shortly afterwards (the ten turn peace is in effect though, I think), even though China-Japan relations are good, since the Japanese will now consider its relations with both China and Korea when choosing whether or not to declare.

So while there are several possible reasons for the OP's experience (need more info to say which), the DOWs should not have come automatically with Justin's capitulation.

 

[The Rook]

AP as the cause makes more sense than Power rankings (although I have had simultanious DoWs from low power, I think my neighbor "traded" for it).

I dont have any expansions so I never considered that possibility, I dont even really understand how the AP works, to be honest.

Although I wouldn't rule AP out as a possibility, I can't say I have ever been declared on via the AP when I was on good terms with the civ that owned it. If Justinian was vassalised at the time of the declaration, I suspect that Mao and Alex's real attitude towards the human was just pleased (even though it may show friendly). This isn't sufficient for safety, one probably declared, and then bribed the other to join in. Neither Alex or Mao will accept a bribe to attack a friendly rival, but they will if their attitude is pleased.

 

[pi-r8]

Also it's worth pointing out that Alex is extremely aggressive and untrustworthy. I'm not sure about Mao, I think he's about average in this respect, so most likely Alex bribed him.

 

[NintendoTogepi]

I want to say some things

1. They were both friendly. Very friendly. Mao had no negatives, Alexander only had a -2.

2. It happened a few turns BEFORE I took Justinian as a vassal.

3. Apostalic Palace? Perhaps, Alexander built it. But then again, I just went and checked and Mao had not one city with Hinduism in it. (Alexander's religion)

4. My power ranking is 4 apparently (below Augustus, Mao and Alexander).

 

[Dark_Ownage]

Peter is the biggest scum bag in the world!
I give him chemistry education combusiton and 5 of my citys and he stilll declares war!?!

 

[The Rook]

I want to say some things

1. They were both friendly. Very friendly. Mao had no negatives, Alexander only had a -2.

2. It happened a few turns BEFORE I took Justinian as a vassal.

3. Apostalic Palace? Perhaps, Alexander built it. But then again, I just went and checked and Mao had not one city with Hinduism in it. (Alexander's religion)

4. My power ranking is 4 apparently (below Augustus, Mao and Alexander).

Very strange. The fact that both AIs declared simultaneously would suggest either a bribe or the AP. It can't be AP if Mao doesn't have the AP religion. If Justinian wasn't your vassal at the time, the friendly status of the AIs should be true, and if this is the case, neither Mao or Alex would accept a bribe to attack you. Only Cathy can accept a bribe to attack a civ she is friendly with. Your power rating should not matter in the slightest if your relations are good enough. If relations with Mao/Alex are truly friendly (no hidden modifiers), you could literally disband your entire army, and they wouldn't make a decision to attack you.

The only alternatives I can think of are:

1. Alex/Mao have some master/vassal relationship. So if the master declares, the vassal must join in.
2. Both AIs decided to attack many turns earlier, when your relations were worse than friendly (even pleased would be low enough), and then declared simultaneously. Seems unlikely, since you say Alex was at war just a few turns earlier, and I am not sure an AI can make a decision to go to war whilst involved in a military conflict.

 

[Bleys]

Do you have the whole map from fairly recent World Map trades? Its possible Mao stuck a city down near Alex since you last updated the area, and it was quickly converted to Hinduism, and you just dont know it yet because your map info is too old.