Why doesn't the AI vote for me if I have the highest modifiers?

[DrCron]

Hi everyone,

I'm playing an Immortal archipelago game (attached) and I was trying to get a peaceful Diplo victory. Right before the vote I'm friendly with the 3 largest civs (except for India, the largest one, that will be my rival). Elizabeth and Lincoln are also friendly with Asoka, but as you can see in the Glance screen, I have a higher modifier than them. However, the next turn both of them vote for Asoka instead of me.

Why does this happen?

I don't think I have ever won a peaceful diplomatic victory on this game (except the cheesy AP win with a religion that no one has), and I'm really struggling with it. Is there a post somewhere that explains the mechanics of the UN votes?

 

[lymond]

Didn't load the save, but do you have any vassals? That, plus some other hidden modifiers may be affecting the vote.

So, in other words, if a leader is Friendly with both you and your rival, and diplo screen shows you even have a slightly higher relationship, it actually may be lower due that leader's opinion of your vassal and any hidden modifiers.

Civ leaders all have different base modifiers to others. There's a spreadsheet somewhere that lists all this stuff, but the Civ Illustrated #1 guide in the Strategy articles sub-forum is a good reference.

I think there may be a guide in the War Academy on UN victories. Not sure how accurate it is now.

So just keep in mind when it comes to diplo victories to do everything you can to boost relations with voters, while, if possible, sabotaging your rivals relationship with others or at least enough to secure the vote.

A bit earlier on, you might try to start some wars to build up some relations or even bribing them on your rival (just be careful that to keep tabs on a) rival is strong enough to stay rival b) but not too strong to vassal them)

Diplomation is another option. Just vassalize several AIs and you should win.

Other options to boost relations:

1) resource trades - do this as soon as you can. the more resources the faster to +2
2) OB, of course
3) shared religion - can also be a problem as well depending on how things shake out
4) Gift/trade techs - AIs have different #s of techs to get the bonus (some as low as 7, some as hight as like 20 - see Civ Illustrated #1). However, over the course of the game if you keep trading techs often, even gifting old techs as much as you can, you can build up a few points of "shared technology". If I have a reasonable lead on some techs, I will gift gift gift as I get closer to the vote.
5) Gift cities - Plop a city within 9 tiles of AI's cap and you can "liberate it" for +1. Do it again and it goes to +3. Keep some settlers at the ready to do this before eligible spots dry up.
6) Give into demands/requests if within reason. Similarly give into request to adopt religion/fave civic if not burdensome to your overall game. You can always switch out later if that is best, but still have the bonus from agreeing.
7) As mentioned, you can build up quite a bit of good favor from shared wars. Pick a patsy that is not particularly liked (think Brennus or DeG or SB) and bribe allies into war. Rinse/repeat.
8) And, ofc, fave civics is a big one. Ofc, some AIs have problematic fave civics. Either they come very late to make an impact, or they just are civics you normally adopt. however, if the goal is to win then you just deal with it.

 

[DrCron]

Didn't load the save, but do you have any vassals? That, plus some other hidden modifiers may be affecting the vote.

(...)

Diplomation is another option. Just vassalize several AIs and you should win.

I don't have any vassals. It's really hard to get someone to peace vassal on Immortal, and I'm trying to win a peaceful game.

Regarding your other 8 tips, I did all of them except sharing religions (Free Rel gives me a boost with Elizabeth, and it's helping with both research and happiness).

Is there another hidden modifier apart from the opinion the AI has on your vassal?

 

[Tatran]

Maybe this has anything to do with it.
I still don't understand the interpretation of the civs in same the column compared to civs in other columns in (relationship) numbers.
And what is the position of the human player?

 

[Lexicus]

Diplomation is another option. Just vassalize several AIs and you should win.

Naturally this is the only way I've ever won via diplomacy.

 

[DrCron]

Maybe this has anything to do with it.
I still don't understand the interpretation of the civs in same the column compared to civs in other columns in (relationship) numbers.
And what is the position of the human player?

0 Appears to be the most violent and 10 the most peaceful. The "base attitude"... I assume it's towards the human player, but maybe it's towards the AI as well? Either way, it should affect me and Asoka in the same way. The "warmonger respect" part shouldn't affect my case since in this game neither me or Asoka have ever gone to war (I would have loved to bribe someone to DOW him, but by the time the others met him India was too big and strong, not to mention this game is full of peacemongers).

 

[elitetroops]

Base attitude is towards human player. Towards each other, they have different hidden modifiers. In general, the closer their peaceweight, the more they like each other. The low peaceweight AI will always hate Gandhi the most, and high peaceweight AI will like each other a lot.

 

[DrCron]

Base attitude is towards human player. Towards each other, they have different hidden modifiers. In general, the closer their peaceweight, the more they like each other. The low peaceweight AI will always hate Gandhi the most, and high peaceweight AI will like each other a lot.

So Asoka, Lincoln and Liz like each other because they have high peaceweight? Is that the hidden modifier I'm missing in my game?

 

[elitetroops]

Yes, this is correct.

The latest BUFFY shows those hidden modifiers on diplo screen. Here's what the diplo situation looks like if Asoka, Lizzy and Lincoln were to meet each other and 3 low peaceweight AI on T0:

Spoiler :

There are some additional hidden modifiers there, specifically Asoka, Lincoln and Lizzy have an additional +1 "developing nations should work together to catch up", which they also all have towards me. I think this is something that the lower half of the scoreboard shares.

The "a first impression is a lasting one" modifier is +3 or +4 between the high peaceweight AI, +4 between all the low peaceweight AI. The low peaceweight AI have up to -7 such modifiers towards the high peaceweight AI.

 

[DrCron]

Yes, this is correct.

The latest BUFFY shows those hidden modifiers on diplo screen. Here's what the diplo situation looks like if Asoka, Lizzy and Lincoln were to meet each other and 3 low peaceweight AI on T0:

Spoiler :

There are some additional hidden modifiers there, specifically Asoka, Lincoln and Lizzy have an additional +1 "developing nations should work together to catch up", which they also all have towards me. I think this is something that the lower half of the scoreboard shares.

The "a first impression is a lasting one" modifier is +3 or +4 between the high peaceweight AI, +4 between all the low peaceweight AI. The low peaceweight AI have up to -7 such modifiers towards the high peaceweight AI.

I see, thanks for the clarification, that makes perfect sense. I don't think I can see this with just BUG, if I don't play with BUFFY, can I?

Also, I should have never gone for a peaceful diplo victory on that game! I wish I had known this a few days ago

 

[lymond]

I think it is BULL that adds in the modifiers, so just add BULL to BUG (BUFFY = BUG+BULL+HOF) OR you can use the great BAT mod which has it all, plus shinies.

Not sure if there are additional tweaks to the options to see more..haven't thought of this stuff in some time.

Yeah..the leaders in the game can very well affect your approach to diplo victories. Knowing more about them can be helpful (again ...see Civ illustrated #1)

 

[DrCron]

Well, I managed to win the game anyway. I played up to 1904 and killed a total of zero units, barbarians included (see img attached). First time I get a UN victory 100% peaceful.

This is how I got Lincoln and Liz to vote for me:

Spoiler :

Gilgamesh DOW'd Asoka, which activated the defensive pacts he had with Lincoln and Liz. At that point I had lost my own def pact bonus, and Asoka had the common enemy bonus. However...

I used 2 UN resolutions to get both of them out of that war. Then I re-signed the defensive pact. At this point Asoka had 1 less point because his own def pact was now gone. I also gave Liz Satellites when she begged for it, just in case. And this was enough. Together with Pericles, they gave me enough votes to win.

The hidden modifiers are a big pain though. I'll try, once more, to install the BULL DLL, to see if it includes this info. I tried to get it done a couple of times but it didn't work.