Why ending a life is morally neutral

Perfection said:
Absolutely.

If I didn't know where stores are I'd have a hard time getting stuff.

It's important to me that my beliefs regarding store locations are true.
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elevating descriptions of locations by calling them beliefs seems to make for a pretty narrow view, but if it works for you...

just out of curiosity, is it really working well?
 
timtofly said:
Here I thought the lack of response was because you did not agree with me.
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No, it was because I thought what you were saying was nothing but bait that would lead to a useless conversation that I wasn't interested in having at the time.
 
Timsup2nothin said:
elevating descriptions of locations by calling them beliefs seems to make for a pretty narrow view, but if it works for you...

just out of curiosity, is it really working well?
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just because it isn't some sexy controversial aspect of my worldview doesn't mean it's not a belief. I believe there's a target off the Plymouth exit of 394. I don't think it's wrong to say that.

If I believed there was a target off the Louisiana exit of 394, I would go there and find myself at a location without a target, an unfortunate state of affairs. In that case I have a false belief.

In my view if your philosophical system can't even get me to Target why should I think it's good for addressing bigger questions?
 
I seem to hit my fair share of targets even though I don't elevate target hunting into the realm of beliefs.
 
Why isn't it a belief? Is it not something I believe?

In my view if you believe it, it's a belief. Doesn't matter how big or small it is.
 
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Perfection said:
Why isn't it a belief? Is it not something I believe?

In my view if you believe it, it's a belief. Doesn't matter how big or small it is.
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Is there a distinction in reality between mere belief and common knowledge? Does that come from being objective or a personal guess that the Target will always be there?

I am bad at names, but good at locations. I would believe both your locations are acceptable, unless they were at opposites ends of the town, and then I would question your ability to know an exact location.
 
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Perfection said:
Why isn't it a belief? Is it not something I believe?

In my view if you believe it, it's a belief. Doesn't matter how big or small it is.
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Fair enough. Personally I think that would strip a lot of depth from my view, but if it works for you I can't dispute it.
 
Timsup2nothin said:
Fair enough. Personally I think that would strip a lot of depth from my view, but if it works for you I can't dispute it.
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I can imagine some reasons why one might say that, especially regarding matters of faith. For instance one might view the belief that God has a plan as a source of comfort that can help during times of great distress. Or one might view it important to not question the love of one's spouse. I sort of believe in a faithless faith, where one can find a way of thinking of things that both provides the attitudinal and emotional utility of faith while retaining a more basic view about truth and beliefs.
 
Perfection said:
I can imagine some reasons why one might say that, especially regarding matters of faith. For instance one might view the belief that God has a plan as a source of comfort that can help during times of great distress. Or one might view it important to not question the love of one's spouse. I sort of believe in a faithless faith, where one can find a way of thinking of things that both provides the attitudinal and emotional utility of faith while retaining a more basic view about truth and beliefs.
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It's a lot simpler than that. Objective reality has room for you...as a meatbag. Objectively speaking that is all there is to you, a bunch of small objects forming structures of larger objects that in turn form larger structures. There is no red. There is no love. There is no ideas. If you operate in "objective reality is all there is, so the location of the corner store is all there is to believe" then you can operate just fine, as a meatbag that can get food from the corner store.

I argue that there is more to you than that.
 
Perfection said:
I can imagine some reasons why one might say that, especially regarding matters of faith. For instance one might view the belief that God has a plan as a source of comfort that can help during times of great distress. Or one might view it important to not question the love of one's spouse. I sort of believe in a faithless faith, where one can find a way of thinking of things that both provides the attitudinal and emotional utility of faith while retaining a more basic view about truth and beliefs.
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That is the trouble though with imagining. Some person has a real objective experience. To you it is subjective. Others imagine that it will happen to them. When it does not happen, then they loose trust, faith, or even belief. That is why belief cannot just be some accepted blanket of dogma that is supposed to apply to all equally. Yet we are social beings and have to relate to each other to a certain agreement. But coming together in agreement do not facts make. Yet most have the need to figure out and understand what is true. I do not see it as a faithless faith. It is a subjective faith, because it lacks personal experience to the one who just hears about it. It is quite possible that we can accept what we are told, even if we do not experience it. Accepting an objective reality does not make it one. Rejecting an objective reality does not make it any less real or objective.

The worse emotional pain is expecting too much of another individual and then blaming that individual for not living up to the expectation. That has been the whole thrust of religion. My question is why would humans invent the need to be perfect? Would there not have to be an objective example that humans would strive for? Humans have seemed to always feel like worthless scum, and nothing in that worthlessness should engender any greater expectations. One can argue that imagination has to be an important function. We have no clear idea where thoughts even come from, so if an ideal is out there, that ideal is possibly the source of that imagination, and not just some evolved self deception.
 
Timsup2nothin said:
It's a lot simpler than that. Objective reality has room for you...as a meatbag. Objectively speaking that is all there is to you, a bunch of small objects forming structures of larger objects that in turn form larger structures. There is no red. There is no love. There is no ideas. If you operate in "objective reality is all there is, so the location of the corner store is all there is to believe" then you can operate just fine, as a meatbag that can get food from the corner store.

I argue that there is more to you than that.
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are you saying that objectively you do not exist? Because you seem to imply that.

I think people objectively exist.

One thing to consider is that physical reality might not be the only objective thing. For instance mathematical truths seem objectively true even if they're nonphysical.
 
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Not at all. I have no doubt that meatbags are part of objective reality, and I'm quite attached to mine. I'm saying that meatbag at the keyboard isn't all there is to you.

Mathematics isn't objectively real. It is certainly a good example that there is something beyond objective reality that is just as important as objective reality though. Well done.
 
It is not an abstraction of an abstract. It is how we place our thought into an objective form. Data is an object. In fact it tends to be a highly lucrative object these days.
 
timtofly said:
It is not an abstraction of an abstract. It is how we place our thought into an objective form. Data is an object. In fact it tends to be a highly lucrative object these days.
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The ink is a collection of objects. Data only exists in the mind of the reader. We have the ability to manipulate very small objects in very organized ways, but they are still just objects, not data.
 
Not unless one uses a computer.
 
This is the sort of thread title that will one day be cited by a public prosecutor.
 
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