Why have Communist Countries Killled so Many of their own Citizens?

civman110

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"The following estimates represent citizens killed or starved to death by their own Communist governments since 1918. These numbers do not include war dead."

"All numbers are mid-estimates," which have been calculated from several sources then rounded to the nearest 1000.
http://www.scottmanning.com/content/communist-body-count/

People's Republic of China
Body Count: 73,237,000

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
Body Count: 58,627,000

Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic
Body Count: 3,284,000

Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Body Count: 3,163,000

Cambodia
Body Count: 2,627,000

Democratic Republic of Afghanistan
Body Count: 1,750,000

Vietnam
Body Count: 1,670,000

People's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia
Body Count: 1,343,610

Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Body Count: 1,072,000

Chinese Soviet Republic
Body Count: 700,000

People's Republic of Mozambique
Body Count: 700,000

Socialist Republic of Romania
Body Count: 435,000

People's Republic of Bulgaria
Body Count: 222,000

People's Republic of Angola
Body Count: 125,000

Mongolian People's Republic
Body Count: 100,000

People's Socialist Republic of Albania
Body Count: 100,000

Republic of Cuba
Body Count: 73,000

German Democratic Republic
Body Count: 70,000

Socialist Republic of Czechoslovakia
Body Count: 65,000

Lao People's Democratic Republic
Body Count: 56,000

Hungarian People's Republic
Body Count: 27,000

People's Republic of Poland
Body Count: 22,000

People's Democratic Republic of Yemen
Body Count: 1,000

Communist Body Count: 149,469,610


So why have commies killed so many of their own citizens in the last 97 years?
 
Because countries born of civil war and upheaval tend to be a bit violent?
I mean, the French Revolution gave us Napoleon who -depending on how you view the Peninsular War- only ranks below Hitler on "European War Mongers" because he had a good publicists and didn't commit genocide.
Cromwell came to power during the English Civil War and brought the historic English past time of persecuting the Irish to a whole new level of nasty.

I notice you mentioned the MPLA and Angola in the list, does that include casualties as a result of the South African Border war where South Africa invaded Angola to prop up Maoist rebels and preserve what remained of white rule in Southern Africa?
Same goes for Mozambique, I'm assuming that includes the decades long civil war against RENAMO, which was originally created by Rhodesia to foment dissent against FRELIMO as minority rule was falling apart in Rhodesia and ended up going in a totally nasty direction that was notable for RENAMO's fondness for butchery of civilians:
RENAMO systematically committed war crimes and crimes against humanity as part of its destabilization strategy. These include mass killing, rape and mutilation of non-combatants during terroristic raids on villages and towns, the use of child soldiers and the employment of the Gandira system, based upon forced labour and sexual violence. Often women would be apprehended while out in the fields, then raped as a means to boost troop moral. Gandira caused widespread starvation among the rural population due to the little time left to produce food for themselves. This caused more and more persons to be physically unable to endure the long transportation marches demanded from them. Refusing to participate in Gandira or falling behind on the marches resulted in severe beating and often execution.[19] Flight attempts were also punished harshly. One particularly gruesome practice was the mutilation and killing of children left behind by escaped parents.[20][21]

RENAMO crimes gained worldwide public attention when RENAMO soldiers butchered 424 civilians, including the patients of a hospital, with guns and machetes during a raid on the rural town of Homoine.[22] This incident prompted an investigation into RENAMO methods by US-State Department consultant Robert Gersony, which finally put an end to conservative ambitions for US-government support for RENAMO.[23] The report concluded that RENAMO's actions in Homoine did not significantly differ from the tactics it normally employed in such raids. These methods are described in the report in the following way:
"The attack stage was sometimes reported to begin with what appeared to the inhabitants to be the indiscriminate firing of automatic weapons by a substantial force of attacking RENAMO combatants. […] Reportedly the Government soldiers aim their defensive fire at the attackers, while the RENAMO forces shoot indiscriminately into the village. In some cases refugees perceived that the attacking force had divided into three detachments: one conducts the military attack; another enters houses and removes valuables, mainly clothing, radios, food, pots and other possessions; a third moves through the looted houses with pieces of burning thatch setting fire to the houses in the village. There were several reports that schools and health clinics are typical targets for destruction. The destruction of the village as a viable entity appears to be the main objective of such attacks. This type of attack causes several types of civilian casualties. As is normal in guerrilla warfare, some civilians are killed in crossfire between the two opposing forces, although this tends in the view of the refugees to account for only a minority of the deaths. A larger number of civilians in these attacks and other contexts were reported to be victims of purposeful shooting deaths and executions, of axing, knifing, bayoneting, burning to death, forced drowning and asphyxiation, and other forms of murder where no meaningful resistance or defense is present. Eyewitness accounts indicate that when civilians are killed in these indiscriminate attacks, whether against defended or undefended villages, children, often together with mothers and elderly people, are also killed. Varying numbers of civilian victims in each attack were reported to be rounded up and abducted [...]."[24]
Thus it appears the only difference between the Homoine massacre and RENAMO's usual methods was the size of the operation. Normally RENAMO would choose smaller, easier targets instead of attacking a town defended by some 90 government soldiers.[25]

According to the Gersony Report, RENAMO's transgressions were far more systematic, widespread and grave than FRELIMO's: the refugees interviewed for the Gersony Report attributed 94% of the murders, 94% of the abductions and 93% of the lootings to RENAMO.[26] However, this conclusion has been disputed by the French Marxist scholar Michel Cahen, who states that both sides were equally to blame:
There can be no doubt that the war was largely one fought against civilians... I am also convinced that the war was equally savage on both sides, even if the total domination of the media by FRELIMO for the 15 years of the war has led even those most desirous of remaining objective to attribute the majority of the atrocities to RENAMO. The people themselves were not duped: they attributed various acts of banditry and certain massacres to "RENAMO 1," but others to "RENAMO 2" – the euphemistic term for FRELIMO soldiers and militiamen acting on their own.[27]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambican_Civil_War#RENAMO

Napoleon didn't come anywhere close to the body count many of these Communist countries had, neither did Hitler.
I suppose we can thank [insert deity of choice] that Napoleon didn't have gas chambers and was limited to flintlocks and sabers.
I also would think that the attempt to eliminate and entire race along industrial lines deserves to be placed in its own special circle of hell, but that could just be me.
 
Your "authority" is a "graduate" of the "American Military University", an online diploma mill? :lmao:
 
Because countries born of civil war and upheaval tend to be a bit violent?
I mean, the French Revolution gave us Napoleon who -depending on how you view the Peninsular War- only ranks below Hitler on "European War Mongers" because he had a good publicists and didn't commit genocide.
Cromwell came to power during the English Civil War and brought the historic English past time of persecuting the Irish to a whole new level of nasty.

However, many countries have fought civil wars which have not killed so many people. Also not all of these body counts are attributable to civil war. Often these numbers are attributed to genocides.

Napoleon didn't come anywhere close to the body count many of these Communist countries had, neither did Hitler. Cromwell, although a tyrant was merely a drop in the bucket compared to most Commies. Nazi Body Count: 20,946,000 Non-Battle Deaths, but that wasn't their own people. 12,250,000 deaths are from the Soviet Union alone in what was a very bloody war.

The Commies deaths are their own citizens, which is even worse imo.
 
The Commies deaths are their own citizens, which is even worse imo.

The Greeks had a special rule, which was that they would only ENSLAVE non-greeks. Which is much better imo.
An estimated 2 to 5 Million died in the US slave trade alone, most from inhuman transportation, others from inhuman treatment.

This is NOT in defense of communism which is a horrific system of government, almost all the time.
 
The Greeks had a special rule, which was that they would only ENSLAVE non-greeks. Which is much better imo.

Was that when they were under Muslim, rule or before? Because Muslims have such a law that allows them to enslave non-Muslims.

An estimated 2 to 5 Million died in the US slave trade alone, most from inhuman transportation, others from inhuman treatment.

The Portuguese did most of the transporting for the slave trade and also owned most of the slaves - not the US.
In fact the slave trade pre-dates the US by 257 years. The US was founded in 1776.

Distribution of slaves (1519–1867)
Destination & Percentage
Portuguese America 38.5%
British America (minus North America) 18.4%
Spanish Empire 17.5%
French Americas 13.6%
British North America 6.45%
English Americas 3.25%
Dutch West Indies 2.0%
Danish West Indies 0.3%

The number of the Africans arrived in each area can be calculated taking into consideration that the total number of slaves was close to 10,000,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#Human_toll
 
As near as I can tell, the more people value collectivism over individualism, the higher the body count goes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivism

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
 
As near as I can tell, the more people value collectivism(vertical) over individualism, the higher the body count goes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivism

That seems to be the trend.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Since when did Commies have a monopoly on words such as "union" and "united"?
 
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That old argument?

form, establish, insure, promote, secure, ordain, and establish limited government.
Just enough collectivism to ensure the primacy of individualism.


Nowadays its mandate Obamacare, and order invasion of ______ without a congressional declaration of war.
We're certainly drifting away from our roots.
 
That old argument?

form, establish, insure, promote, secure, ordain, and establish limited government.
Just enough collectivism to ensure the primacy of individualism.


Nowadays its mandate Obamacare, and order invasion of ______ without a congressional declaration of war.
We're certainly drifting away from our roots.
Considering the deadliest war in American history was fought over the right to hold humans as property, I'm pretty happy we have moved away from our roots.
 
Considering the deadliest war in American history was fought over the right to hold humans as property, I'm pretty happy we have moved away from our roots.

Nah, the civil war was fought mainly over the North increasing tariffs on the South to transport their good to Europe and States rights. In fact all of the slave markets were in the North and not the South.

"The South was an agricultural region where cotton and tobacco were the main backbone to the region’s economic strength. The area relied on exports to markets in Western Europe."

"In 1832, South Carolina passed an act that declared that Federal tariff legislation of 1828 and 1832 could not be enforced onto states and that after February 1st 1833 the tariffs would not be recognised in the state. This brought South Carolina into direct conflict with the Federal government in Washington DC. Congress pushed through the Force Bill that enabled the President to use military force to bring any state into line with regards to implementing Federal law."

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/the-american-civil-war/causes-of-the-american-civil-war/
 
Nah, the civil war was fought mainly over the North increasing tariffs on the South to transport their good to Europe and States rights. In fact all of the slave markets were in the North and not the South.

States rights to....

oh right. Own slaves.
 
Nah, the civil war was fought mainly over the North increasing tariffs on the South to transport their good to Europe and States rights.

What kind of goods exactly are we talking about ?
And are those goods related in anyway to Slavery industry of the South by any chance ?


Would those States rights be the constitutional right to own slaves by any chance ?

they wanted the Constitution, which protected slavery, to be honored, and the Union, which had fellowship with slaveholders, to be preserved
Seven slave states of the Deep South, whose economies were all based on cotton cultivated using slave labor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War
 
Considering the deadliest war in American history was fought over the right to hold humans as property, I'm pretty happy we have moved away from our roots.

Consider what else was lost when those 11 states seceded from the union and were forced back through bloody war.
More than slavery died out that year.

SOUTH CAROLINA
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of South Carolina and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."

We, the people of the State of South Carolina, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by us in convention on the twenty-third day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly of this State ratifying amendments of the said Constitution, are hereby repealed; and that the union now subsisting between South Carolina and other States, under the name of the "United States of America," is hereby dissolved.

Done at Charleston the twentieth day of December, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty.


MISSISSIPPI
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Mississippi and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America." The people of the State of Mississippi, in convention assembled, do ordain and declare, and it is hereby ordained and declared, as follows, to wit:

Section 1. That all the laws and ordinances by which the said State of Mississippi became a member of the Federal Union of the United States of America be, and the same are hereby, repealed, and that all obligations on the part of the said State or the people thereof to observe the same be withdrawn, and that the said State doth hereby resume all the rights, functions, and powers which by any of said laws or ordinances were conveyed to the Government of the said United States, and is absolved from all the obligations, restraints, and duties incurred to the said Federal Union, and shall from henceforth be a free, sovereign, and independent State.

Sec. 2. That so much of the first section of the seventh article of the constitution of this State as requires members of the Legislature and all officers, executive and judicial, to take an oath or affirmation to support the Constitution of the United States be, and the same is hereby, abrogated and annulled.

Sec. 3. That all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or under any act of Congress passed, or treaty made, in pursuance thereof, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Sec. 4. That the people of the State of Mississippi hereby consent to form a federal union with such of the States as may have seceded or may secede from the Union of the United States of America, upon the basis of the present Constitution of the said United States, except such parts thereof as embrace other portions than such seceding States.

Thus ordained and declared in convention the 9th day of January, in the year of our Lord 1861.


FLORIDA
ORDINANCE OF SECESSION

We, the people of the State of Florida, in convention assembled, do solemnly ordain, publish, and declare, That the State of Florida hereby withdraws herself from the confederacy of States existing under the name of the United States of America and from the existing Government of the said States; and that all political connection between her and the Government of said States ought to be, and the same is hereby, totally annulled, and said Union of States dissolved; and the State of Florida is hereby declared a sovereign and independent nation; and that all ordinances heretofore adopted, in so far as they create or recognize said Union, are rescinded; and all laws or parts of laws in force in this State, in so far as they recognize or assent to said Union, be, and they are hereby, repealed.

Passed 10 Jan 1861


ALABAMA
An Ordinance to dissolve the union between the State of Alabama and the other States united under the compact styled "The Constitution of the United States of America"

Whereas, the election of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin to the offices of president and vice-president of the United States of America, by a sectional party, avowedly hostile to the domestic institutions and to the peace and security of the people of the State of Alabama, preceded by many and dangerous infractions of the constitution of the United States by many of the States and people of the Northern section, is a political wrong of so insulting and menacing a character as to justify the people of the State of Alabama in the adoption of prompt and decided measures for their future peace and security, therefore:

Be it declared and ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in Convention assembled, That the State of Alabama now withdraws, and is hereby withdrawn from the Union known as "the United States of America," and henceforth ceases to be one of said United States, and is, and of right ought to be a Sovereign and Independent State.

Sec 2. Be it further declared and ordained by the people of the State of Alabama in Convention assembled, That all powers over the Territory of said State, and over the people thereof, heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America, be and they are hereby withdrawn from said Government, and are hereby resumed and vested in the people of the State of Alabama.

And as it is the desire and purpose of the people of Alabama to meet the slaveholding States of the South, who may approve such purpose, in order to frame a provisional as well as permanent Government upon the principles of the Constitution of the United States,

Be it resolved by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled, That the people of the States of Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky and Missouri, be and are hereby invited to meet the people of the State of Alabama, by their Delegates, in Convention, on the 4th day of February, A.D., 1861, at the city of Montgomery, in the State of Alabama, for the purpose of consulting with each other as to the most effectual mode of securing concerted and harmonious action in whatever measures may be deemed most desirable for our common peace and security.

And be it further resolved, That the President of this Convention, be and is hereby instructed to transmit forthwith a copy of the foregoing Preamble, Ordinance, and Resolutions to the Governors of the several States named in said resolutions.

Done by the people of the State of Alabama, in Convention assembled, at Montgomery, on this, the eleventh day of January, A.D. 1861.


GEORGIA
We the people of the State of Georgia in Convention assembled do declare and ordain and it is hereby declared and ordained that the ordinance adopted by the State of Georgia in convention on the 2nd day of Jany. in the year of our Lord seventeen hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the constitution of the United States of America was assented to, ratified and adopted, and also all acts and parts of acts of the general assembly of this State, ratifying and adopting amendments to said constitution, are hereby repealed, rescinded and abrogated.

We do further declare and ordain that the union now existing between the State of Georgia and other States under the name of the United States of America is hereby dissolved, and that the State of Georgia is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State.

Passed January 19, 1861.


LOUISIANA
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Louisiana and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."

We, the people of the State of Louisiana, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance passed by us in convention on the 22d day of November, in the year eighteen hundred and eleven, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America and the amendments of the said Constitution were adopted, and all laws and ordinances by which the State of Louisiana became a member of the Federal Union, be, and the same are hereby, repealed and abrogated; and that the union now subsisting between Louisiana and other States under the name of "The United States of America" is hereby dissolved.

We do further declare and ordain, That the State of Louisiana hereby resumes all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from all allegiance to said Government; and that she is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent State.

We do further declare and ordain, That all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or any act of Congress, or treaty, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Adopted in convention at Baton Rouge this 26th day of January, 1861.


TEXAS
AN ORDINANCE To dissolve the Union between the State of Texas and the other States united under the Compact styled "the Constitution of the United States of America."

WHEREAS, The Federal Government has failed to accomplish the purposes of the compact of union between these States, in giving protection either to the persons of our people upon an exposed frontier, or to the property of our citizens, and

WHEREAS, the action of the Northern States of the Union is violative of the compact between the States and the guarantees of the Constitution; and,

WHEREAS, The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression; THEREFORE,

SECTION 1.-- We, the people of the State of Texas, by delegates in convention assembled, do declare and ordain that the ordinance adopted by our convention of delegates on the 4th day of July, A.D. 1845, and afterwards ratified by us, under which the Republic of Texas was admitted into the Union with other States, and became a party to the compact styled "The Constitution of the United States of America," be, and is hereby, repealed and annulled; that all the powers which, by the said compact, were delegated by Texas to the Federal Government are revoked and resumed; that Texas is of right absolved from all restraints and obligations incurred by said compact, and is a separate sovereign State, and that her citizens and people are absolved from all allegiance to the United States or the government thereof.

SEC. 2. This ordinance shall be submitted to the people of Texas for their ratification or rejection, by the qualified voters, on the 23rd day of February, 1861, and unless rejected by a majority of the votes cast, shall take effect and be in force on and after the 2d day of March, A.D. 1861.PROVIDED, that in the Representative District of El Paso said election may be held on the 18th day of February, 1861.

Done by the people of the State of Texas, in convention assembled, at Austin, this 1st day of February, A.D. 1861.

Ratified 23 Feb 1861 by a vote of 46,153 for and 14,747 against.


VIRGINIA
AN ORDINANCE to repeal the ratification of the Constitution of the United State of America by the State of Virginia, and to resume all the rights and powers granted under said Constitution.

The people of Virginia in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression, and the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States:

Now, therefore, we, the people of Virginia, do declare and ordain, That the ordinance adopted by the people of this State in convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and all acts of the General Assembly of this State ratifying and adopting amendments to said Constitution, are hereby repealed and abrogated; that the union between the State of Virginia and the other States under the Constitution aforesaid is hereby dissolved, and that the State of Virginia is in the full possession and exercise of all the rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State.

And they do further declare, That said Constitution of the United States of America is no longer binding on any of the citizens of this State.

This ordinance shall take effect and be an act of this day, when ratified by a majority of the voter of the people of this State cast at a poll to be taken thereon on the fourth Thursday in May next, in pursuance of a schedule hereafter to be enacted.

Adopted by the convention of Virginia April 17,1861 ratified by a vote of 132,201 to 37,451 on 23 May 1861.


ARKANSAS
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union now existing between the State of Arkansas and the other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."

Whereas, in addition to the well-founded causes of complaint set forth by this convention, in resolutions adopted on the 11th of March, A.D. 1861, against the sectional party now in power in Washington City, headed by Abraham Lincoln, he has, in the face of resolutions passed by this convention pledging the State of Arkansas to resist to the last extremity any attempt on the part of such power to coerce any State that had seceded from the old Union, proclaimed to the world that war should be waged against such States until they should be compelled to submit to their rule, and large forces to accomplish this have by this same power been called out, and are now being marshaled to carry out this inhuman design; and to longer submit to such rule, or remain in the old Union of the United States, would be disgraceful and ruinous to the State of Arkansas:

Therefore we, the people of the State of Arkansas, in convention assembled, do hereby declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the "ordinance and acceptance of compact" passed and approved by the General Assembly of the State of Arkansas on the 18th day of October, A.D. 1836, whereby it was by said General Assembly ordained that by virtue of the authority vested in said General Assembly by the provisions of the ordinance adopted by the convention of delegates assembled at Little Rock for the purpose of forming a constitution and system of government for said State, the propositions set forth in "An act supplementary to an act entitled `An act for the admission of the State of Arkansas into the Union, and to provide for the due execution of the laws of the United States within the same, and for other purposes,'" were freely accepted, ratified, and irrevocably confirmed, articles of compact and union between the State of Arkansas and the United States, and all other laws and every other law and ordinance, whereby the State of Arkansas became a member of the Federal Union, be, and the same are hereby, in all respects and for every purpose herewith consistent, repealed, abrogated, and fully set aside; and the union now subsisting between the State of Arkansas and the other States, under the name of the United States of America, is hereby forever dissolved.

And we do further hereby declare and ordain, That the State of Arkansas hereby resumes to herself all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from all allegiance to said Government of the United States, and that she is in full possession and exercise of all the rights and sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent State.

We do further ordain and declare, That all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States of America, or of any act or acts of Congress, or treaty, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in full force and effect, in nowise altered or impaired, and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Adopted and passed in open convention on the 6th day of May, A.D. 1861.



NORTH CAROLINA
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of North Carolina and the other States united with her, under the compact of government entitled "The Constitution of the United States."

We, the people of the State of North Carolina in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by the State of North Carolina in the convention of 1789, whereby the Constitution of the United States was ratified and adopted, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly ratifying and adopting amendments to the said Constitution, are hereby repealed, rescinded, and abrogated.

We do further declare and ordain, That the union now subsisting between the State of North Carolina and the other States, under the title of the United States of America, is hereby dissolved, and that the State of North Carolina is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State.

Done in convention at the city of Raleigh, this the 20th day of May, in the year of our Lord 1861, and in the eighty-fifth year of the independence of said State.


TENNESSEE
DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE AND ORDINANCE dissolving the federal relations between the State of Tennessee and the United States of America.

First. We, the people of the State of Tennessee, waiving any expression of opinion as to the abstract doctrine of secession, but asserting the right, as a free and independent people, to alter, reform, or abolish our form of government in such manner as we think proper, do ordain and declare that all the laws and ordinances by which the State of Tennessee became a member of the Federal Union of the United States of America are hereby abrogated and annulled, and that all the rights, functions, and powers which by any of said laws and ordinances were conveyed to the Government of the United States, and to absolve ourselves from all the obligations, restraints, and duties incurred thereto; and do hereby henceforth become a free, sovereign, and independent State.

Second. We furthermore declare and ordain that article 10, sections 1 and 2, of the constitution of the State of Tennessee, which requires members of the General Assembly and all officers, civil and military, to take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States be, and the same are hereby, abrogated and annulled, and all parts of the constitution of the State of Tennessee making citizenship of the United States a qualification for office and recognizing the Constitution of the United States as the supreme law of this State are in like manner abrogated and annulled.

Third. We furthermore ordain and declare that all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or under any act of Congress passed in pursuance thereof, or under any laws of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Sent to referendum 6 May 1861 by the legislature, and approved by the voters by a vote of 104,471 to 47,183 on 8 June 1861.
 
Nah, the civil war was fought mainly over the North increasing tariffs on the South to transport their good to Europe and States rights. In fact all of the slave markets were in the North and not the South.
So the problem with this statement is that it's not true, which undermines your credibility when trying to make an argument that's less cut and dry like what economic organizational principles are best.

Like, if you had your facts straight I could be like "hmm this guy knows some things, maybe he's right about [xyz controversial unsolved issue]" but instead I'm like, "well among what I've studied I know this is false so he's probably wrong about that other stuff too."
 
Consider what else was lost when those 11 states seceded from the union and were forced back through bloody war.
More than slavery died out that year.

Yes it was always about "Freedom" and "Liberty" and "Rights" *
(* Dose NOT included slaves, native Americans or Mexicans)

In a February 1861 speech to the Virginian secession convention, Georgian Henry L. Benning stated the reasoning behind Georgia's declaring secession from the Union:

What was the reason that induced ... secession? This reason may be summed up in one single proposition. It was a conviction, a deep conviction ... that a separation from the North-was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of ... slavery. ... unless there had been a separation from the North, slavery would be abolished in Georgia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War
 
Because countries born of civil war and upheaval tend to be a bit violent?
I mean, the French Revolution gave us Napoleon who -depending on how you view the Peninsular War- only ranks below Hitler on "European War Mongers" because he had a good publicists and didn't commit genocide.
Cromwell came to power during the English Civil War and brought the historic English past time of persecuting the Irish to a whole new level of nasty.

I notice you mentioned the MPLA and Angola in the list, does that include casualties as a result of the South African Border war where South Africa invaded Angola to prop up Maoist rebels and preserve what remained of white rule in Southern Africa?
Same goes for Mozambique, I'm assuming that includes the decades long civil war against RENAMO, which was originally created by Rhodesia to foment dissent against FRELIMO as minority rule was falling apart in Rhodesia and ended up going in a totally nasty direction that was notable for RENAMO's fondness for butchery of civilians:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambican_Civil_War#RENAMO


I suppose we can thank [insert deity of choice] that Napoleon didn't have gas chambers and was limited to flintlocks and sabers.
I also would think that the attempt to eliminate and entire race along industrial lines deserves to be placed in its own special circle of hell, but that could just be me.
This is the site listed as the reference
STATISTICS OF DEMOCIDE:

Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1900


By R.J. Rummel
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE5.HTM
It will probable have the stats your looking for.
 
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