Why have Communist Countries Killled so Many of their own Citizens?

[civman110]

So, because our people had the temerity to fight back, it doesn't count? Interesting.

You have to compare apples to apples. War and state executions of civilians are two radically different topics.

War dead has been excluded from the Communist numbers for that reason. If I included war dead the numbers would be astronomically higher and it wouldn't be a honest argument.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I'd think something as progressive as communism would fully embrace the evils the Soviet state committed, because then they can say "look at the barbarity of the state, our goal is the dissolution of the state, join us in its destruction."

Yeah you'd think but in the end it boils down to the vast capitalist propaganda machine spinning lies, lies and more lies. I don't think this holds true in general but from my experiences here it seems like the first thing that you have learn as a communist is how to ignore and blindly refute any evidence of any bad things that any communist governments ever did. Find a way to claim it was either the fault of non-communist countries or redirect the conversation to how evil non-communist countries are for bonus points.

Edit: Great post as well!

 

[civman110]

I don't think this holds true in general but from my experiences here it seems like the first thing that you have learn as a communist is how to ignore and blindly refute any evidence of any bad thing that any communist governments ever did. Find a way to claim it was either the fault of non-communist countries or redirect the conversation to how evil non-communist countries are for bonus points.

And that's exactly why so many Communist revolutionaries get killed off after the revolutions. Everytime it's happened they were politically ignorant and were used as useful idiots to bring about a revolution. After it's over and the proper people are in power they kill off the rest of the "undesirables" and install an authoritarian government.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

And that's exactly why so many Communist revolutionaries get killed off after the revolutions. Everytime it's happened they were politically ignorant and were used as useful idiots.

I could have done a simple search and replace in my last post to show you are just about as guilty as they are of the same things. :-/

 

[civman110]

I could have done a simple search and replace in my last post to show you are just about as guilty as they are of the same things. :-/

I'm not in favour of any revolutions, but then again you just admitted that you don't pay attention to facts and logic - that you disregard any information that doesn't fit your pre-conceived opinion.

In every Communist revolution the Communist serfs have always gotten the exact opposite of what they say they support, therefore either Communism doesn't work, or it's a giant scam. Personally I believe it's both.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm not in favour of any revolutions, but then again you just admitted that you don't pay attention to facts and logic - that you disregard any information that doesn't fit your pre-conceived opinion.

Nailed it!

 

[Borachio]

It's a good question.

But when William the Conqueror decided that England was the place to have, he "harrowed" the North (after the battle of Hastings) and slaughtered upwards of 25% of the population.

And Communism wasn't even a twinkle in Marx's eye, at the time.

But seriously, there seems to be something very strange going on with revolutionary movements. They often seem to acquire a mind of their own, and participants find themselves as much victims as anyone else. For example, the Cambodians who carried out the torturing of people to death found themselves obliged to do so just to avoid being victims themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuol_Sleng_Genocide_Museum

It's the power of paranoia, I guess.

 

[Zkribbler]

So the "Great Purge" and "Giant Leap Forward" had nothing to do with the vast majority of those deaths? You're completely dishonest.

Whoopsie. In your rush to call me dishonest, you "accidentally" omitted one of my two proffered reasons. And BTW, both the Great Purge and the Giant Leap Forward are included within my two reasons.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

As the son and brother of two combat veterans, the first thing I learned was that everything the bourgeoisie press said about the "Soviet Bloc," was a lie. Everything. As a Communist, the first thing I learned was how the system is rigged against working people in favor of a wealthy few, and those who were willing to do the bidding of the wealthy.few at the expense of the rest of the workers.

So, please stop trying to tell me what Communists learn.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Why should I? I am not a communist; I have no obligation to see both sides (or some such nonsense).


Pretty annoying, no?

 

[red_elk]

But seriously, there seems to be something very strange going on with revolutionary movements. They often seem to acquire a mind of their own, and participants find themselves as much victims as anyone else.

It's known phenomena, sometimes called "Revolutions eat their children".

As the son and brother of two combat veterans, the first thing I learned was that everything the bourgeoisie press said about the "Soviet Bloc," was a lie. Everything. As a Communist, the first thing I learned was how the system is rigged against working people in favor of a wealthy few, and those who were willing to do the bidding of the wealthy.few at the expense of the rest of the workers.

A post-Soviet joke:
"Back in 80-s, we listened to the Soviet propaganda, which told us horrible tales about Capitalism. Only now, we understand that those stories were actually true".

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Why should I? I am not a communist;

Why should you what? Stop telling communists what they learn? Because you are not a communist.

Let's get a private sector rocket into space without blowing up $2 billion of cargo and then we'll talk.

Communist North Korea can get a rocket into space. Communist North Korea spends more on education per capita than the PI and treats its farmers and scientists with dignity.

 

[warpus]

That's literally what the word "Communism" means

The Greek commu, meaning community. And the Latin nism, meaning KILL KILL KILL.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

hahaha

I mean if we're just spamming random stuff, gotta go with USA#1!

Link to video.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

hahaha

I mean if we're just spamming random stuff, gotta go with USA#1!

Link to video.

Well, if commies can do it, why not private enterprise?

Seriously, since the lies about "death by communism" have been blown to shreds, what is the point of this thread?

 

[Hygro]

Seriously, since the lies about "death by communism" have been blown to shreds

you have an interesting habit of declaring thread victory after making blanket assertions.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Not declaring thread victory. Just pointing out that this thread is pointless, imo.

Also, from 1920 to 1941, the population of the USSR grew from 137 million to 196 million. The life expectancy rose from 44 years to 68 years -- and while 26 million Soviet lives were lost between June 1941 to May 1945, the population shot up from 170 million Jan 1946 to 209 million in 1959 -- six years after Stalin died. By the end, the USSR had 290 million.

So, I call BS on the 58 million killed by communism in the USSR figure.

Nuff said.

 

[civvver]

Why should you what? Stop telling communists what they learn? Because you are not a communist.

Let's get a private sector rocket into space without blowing up $2 billion of cargo and then we'll talk.

Communist North Korea can get a rocket into space. Communist North Korea spends more on education per capita than the PI and treats its farmers and scientists with dignity.

They also won't let their citizens use the internet, restrict free speech, imprison political dissenters, they're one of the biggest police states in the world. Every "communist" country is essentially a police state. Modern day Russia isn't communist any more, and China is headed that way as well.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

They also won't let their citizens use the internet, restrict free speech, imprison political dissenters, they're one of the biggest police states in the world. Every "communist" country is essentially a police state. Modern day Russia isn't communist any more, and China is headed that way as well.

They also don't have school shootings, mass police murders, or terrorism. And the DPRK has a 100% literacy rate.

"No internet" does not equal police state. Who the eff cares? No country can or has claimed "communism," anyway. They don't even claim socialism has been achieved. China is not "headed that way," they are committed to socialism.


Stop trying to tell communists what they believe. Are you trying to force your beliefs on me? That is very undemocratic.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Yeah you'd think but in the end it boils down to the vast capitalist propaganda machine spinning lies, lies and more lies. I don't think this holds true in general but from my experiences here it seems like the first thing that you have learn as a communist is how to ignore and blindly refute any evidence of any bad things that any communist governments ever did. Find a way to claim it was either the fault of non-communist countries or redirect the conversation to how evil non-communist countries are for bonus points.

Edit: Great post as well!

I think it was Leoreth in the "Left = Authoritarian" thread that pointed out why that is. Committed ideologues, like reactionary nationalists, or communists, project themselves and their own well being onto their movements or nation. Therefore, a slight against their movement, anything that may point out that they are wrong or something bad occurred because of it, is taken a slight to oneself. If one is always right, they cannot be wrong. To be wrong would mean they chose the wrong thing to believe in (or maybe that belief isn't as pure as they were lead to believe). Can't have that!

Thanks for the compliment too!

Why should you what? Stop telling communists what they learn? Because you are not a communist.

Only communists can learn about communism? I thought it was a movement that sought to embrace a common humanity, not reject it in favor of separate classes of citizens based on ideological standing.

Not declaring thread victory. Just pointing out that this thread is pointless, imo.

Also, from 1920 to 1941, the population of the USSR grew from 137 million to 196 million. The life expectancy rose from 44 years to 68 years -- and while 26 million Soviet lives were lost between June 1941 to May 1945, the population shot up from 170 million Jan 1946 to 209 million in 1959 -- six years after Stalin died. By the end, the USSR had 290 million.

So, I call BS on the 58 million killed by communism in the USSR figure.

Nuff said.

What about the 800,000 dead Germans?