Why Haven't You Volunteered For Military Service? #2

[Slobadog]

I didn't vote for W. Bush. I'm not going to get my leg blown off for his war for oil. Maybe if he was personally leading the charge it would be different. But if he isn't gona suffer equally as me for his mistakes then i am not going to suffer for his mistakes. I wouldn't die for Adolf Hitler and i will not die for Bush. Alexander the Great maybe but not Bush. Bush does not inspire me to sacrifice for anything.


If i was already in the military it would be different since obviously if i chose as a soldier when to fight and when to quit then that would hurt our own Army which i will not do.


Otherwise its my patriotic duty to not waste my life for its major mistakes. I try not to be too picky about wars but sometimes its best to save one's life for a later day when the country needs me more. Fighting for america is more important for me than fighting for Iraqis. Besides when has Iraq ever done anything for my country. I owe them nothing.





I'm also not medically fit for combat. I could perhaps serve in a non combat role but i'm a bit conservative about my current future job prospects due to my health's limited condition and i don't want to let the army down with what might possibly end up being substandard performance. Still maybe i'll consider it one day. Once the current neo fascist president is out of Office.




Besides our civilian economy pays for our military via taxes. So civilians are important.

 

[amadeus]

My home nation isn't America... I just happen to live here.

Were you born in the U.S.?

 

[Gecko1]

Were you born in the U.S.?

Nope, I was born in a third-world country that I would defend to the death. I've got nationalism, just for my mother country instead of America.

 

[amadeus]

Nope, I was born in a third-world country that I would defend to the death. I've got nationalism, just for my mother country instead of America.

So you'd fight for a hole in the ground, but not for a country that gives you all of these comforts...

Maybe it's better that you're not on our side!

 

[Gecko1]

So you'd fight for a hole in the ground, but not for a country that gives you all of these comforts...

Maybe it's better that you're not on our side!

I would fight for a hole in the ground in fact.

I don't plan on staying here considering that I never chose to come her. So I'm hightailing it before American superiority comes crashing down. It will happen in the next ten to twenty years.

 

[Ofuh]

Gecko your posts make me want to vomit.
It's one thing to not want to go into military service, you're basically a full blown traitor just living here to reap as many of the benefits as you can.

Why don't you go back to your "home country" if you love it so much?

 

[Gecko1]

Gecko your posts make me want to vomit.
It's one thing to not want to go into military service, you're basically a full blown traitor just living here to reap as many of the benefits as you can.

Why don't you go back to your "home country" if you love it so much?

Because I can reap the benifits as it suits me. Those who get ahead do it by working the system. I take advantage of American freedom and I don't even like the place. I don't care, that's what makes some of us losers and the others winners. The guy who goes to Vietnam comes back poor. The Hippie that doesn't gets a degree and becomes a confortable middle class spirit. Now who did the most work?

 

[The Yankee]

Moderator Action: Let's get this back on topic.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Chazumi]

Because I can reap the benifits as it suits me. Those who get ahead do it by working the system. I take advantage of American freedom and I don't even like the place. I don't care, that's what makes some of us losers and the others winners. The guy who goes to Vietnam comes back poor. The Hippie that doesn't gets a degree and becomes a confortable middle class spirit. Now who did the most work?

Yeah this makes me think only one thing....

"America! **** yeah! Here to save the mother ****ing day yeah, America! **** yeah!"

No but seriously, CG you wouldn't be overqualified for military service. As a grunt maybe. DEPENDING ON YOUR DEGREE, and even then I doubt that. Being a grunt isn't as easy as everyone thinks it is. Sure it ain't quantum physics but there is a lot of probabilities to deal with. Not to mention the physical requirements to perform the actions.

Also, not sure how your criminal background looks but that could exclude you from a few jobs or service entirely.

 

[hossam]

gecko1 im actually quite similair to you in respect that im not very happy here and that im here for my education then leaving for my home country, but unlike you i also see the u.s as my second home and would die for it if it was in danger because i owe it, and i dont think i would betray it no matter who was invading it, the only time i could see myself betraying america was if they were invading my home, and that would be in the sense that i would join my countrys army.

 

[Evie]

Because, on the whole, my non-warfare-relevant skills are more numerous and greater than my warfare-relevant ones.

Of course, training could probably develop those skills. But training could also further my skills in other areas (communication, economics, etc) - all of which are also of great use to my country. Given finite resources, particularly time, I'd rather work on furthering those skills I feel have the most potentials. Which are not my combat-related skills.

On the whole, I'd rather serve my country (ie, work in the government). Just not in the military.

 

[sourboy]

I've thought much about joining, but until we start fighting just wars, forget it.

 

[LulThyme]

Again, a military mentality. It does not matter if you believe in the war or not. Most people it seems do not believe in the Iraq/Afghanistan war, but they still support our troops. You have to understand the concept of "Always Working For Someone." Most people don't believe in it, but most people voted for the guy that decided to do it, so who is at fault? Regardless, they do their job, sure with complaint that is undeniable, but with selflessness all the same. They don't do it for "Him" or "Her", they do it for "America". A concept never conceptualized in the history of all mankind, a place for all men who are free, to do pretty much whatever they want. Regardless of race, religion, and nationality, we are all Americans. It means so much more than anything else. Whether you dedicate 2-3 years of your time to this cause is up to you. Perhaps you might be a lifer and spend 30+ years in the military. But my question is, why have you not done it yet? And anyone who has already done civil service like myself I salute you. And there is only one excuse I will accept and that is from Psweet because he is deaf and semi-********. But that's it. What are you waiting for!?

"For America!"
"Just doing my work!"
This is the Eichmann defense.
World War II (for example) has shown us that it is a very dangerous attitude. It's what allows, for example, atrocities to be committed on a massive scale by people who don't even agree with the actions. It's what removes the boundaries on powers of crackpots because everyone will follow them by "selflessness".


Let's suppose that the military was sent on a mission to invade a country for the express purpose of building dead camps to kill all the jews (just to give you an easy reference point) or raping all its children.

Would you still encourage people to do what they can to help?
The fact that they are not directly involved is besides the point. As you explained yourself, death camp builders and children rapers, like any soldiers, cannot function without support and people knowingly supporting them are also partly responsible for the death camps and the raping.


History has taught us that it is very important that citizens draw a line somewhere and say, "I will NOT do my duty passed this line". In other words, it has taught us that that being a human being should come before being an American (for example), and that human decency should trump duty and patriotism.

For the sake of America (and the world at large, give America's position in the world), I hope that yet not too many share your attitude on this matter.

Finally, I am not saying that this necessarily applies to every single's person situation with regards with Iraq, but your post was very general, arguing at an abstract level, hence this response also is.

 

[Ofuh]

Because, on the whole, my non-warfare-relevant skills are more numerous and greater than my warfare-relevant ones.

Of course, training could probably develop those skills. But training could also further my skills in other areas (communication, economics, etc) - all of which are also of great use to my country. Given finite resources, particularly time, I'd rather work on furthering those skills I feel have the most potentials. Which are not my combat-related skills.

On the whole, I'd rather serve my country (ie, work in the government). Just not in the military.

Why is it that everyone thinks joining the military means you're going to be handed a rifle and sent to the nearest warzone?
Unless you have a combat related job, you are NOT going to be anywehre near a battlefield. Your poor untrained self would be a liability not an asset. Everyone will be having to watch over your mistakes, saving you isntead of themselves. "A chain is as strong as its weakest link"

I can't stand that excuse. You want to to some high tech technical job? Think of almost any civilian job you want and one or more of the military branches has something equivalent to that. The difference is you're working for the military with job security instead of some company that at any given moment could fire you.

People complain about not getting jobs after the military. Do people always get jobs related to their major in college? No. THe military, or college, does not guarantee you will get a good job in the field of your choice. It gives you a good advantage that makes you stick out of the crowd. With college you get a piece of paper stating you completed some courses, some will argue over the value of that paper or if it is necessary at all. WIth the military, you get hands on experience, you get the discipline needed in the military, military friendly companies are more likely to hire you, among many other advantages.

I can guarantee if the vast amjority of people who don't join really didn't lie to others or themselves, the reason they don't join is because they're scared. "Oh yeah dude I was SO gonna go to the military man. It's been my goal my whole life brah. But then I went jogging and messed up my knee!" BullCRAP!

 

[Chazumi]

Think of almost any civilian job you want and one or more of the military branches has something equivalent to that. The difference is you're working for the military with job security instead of some company that at any given moment could fire you.

Not to mention just becase you are in the military you dont have to serve your whole life. It's a great diving board into life in my opinion.

-Full Medical Coverage for you and family while you were in (I've already racked up 120k in med bills for just my daughter, plus I'm getting free lasik and custom made orthodics)

-Training that actually counts towards college credits (I only got 2, and that's mainly because my job isn't very technical), PLUS the GI bill, I have about 70k of college paid for once I get out, and while I am in I get 100% free college that doesn't count towards my GI bill

-When you do get out, get your degree, apply for a job, who are they going to take, the guy who graduated high school went to college? or the guy who graduated high school, joined the army, and then got a degree?

-Traveling is fun! You don't always go to Iraq/Afghanistan. They have already sent me to Iceland, Ireland, Germany, Kuwait, Iraq, Thailand and Japan (though I wasn't in Thailand long, one week). I bet I wouldn't have gone to any of these places except Ireland without the military making me go.

 

[aronnax]

Why Ireland?

 

[Chazumi]

Why Ireland?

My dad was born there and I have always wanted to kiss the Blarney stone, but I wasn't able to when I was there

Thailand was the shiznit btw. I'm glad I went. I will probably go back there someday.

 

[West 36]

I'm young, fit, and have what it takes. I have friends in the service. I know the benefits of wearing a uniform in public. I know the great deal of respect some people have for those in it. I could get a few benefits afterward. I could be a help for my country.

So why haven't I signed up? I once was all about it- "oh, when I grow up, I'm gonna sign me up and kill me some terrorists!" But I grew out of that and even though I've been tempted since, have dealt with recruiters of all sorts, and have been to a few bases, for reasons other than to witness the military in action and consider it. My reasons are that I don't agree with this war, and feel that I most likely won't agree with any ones coming up, but if one does happen, I'll consider it. I don't feel like killing people I don't hate, or dying young because I happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, killed by someone who probably does hate me even though he doesn't know me. I'm no pacifist, I believe the are just fights, but I don't see this war filling out any just reasons. Sure you could say I'm being picky- 'you can't shop around for a good fight!', you may say I'm scared- 'aww, poor baby don't wanna fight?', and you might also say that this country has done so much for me, I should pay it back. But no, I refuse. This country is indeed better than many if not most nations, but I don't see me fighting this war as defending it further, advancing it's 'ideals', or really helping anyone. And to if I owe this country something, is that in the fine-print or something that I must repay it with blood? Is the draft going?
I will fight when I know what I'm dying for is worth it. Family, friends, all loved ones, a cause, an ideal- those things I will fight for, I will die for. But that's not what this war is about. My country may be a good one, but I will not die for the sake of America, I will die for it if I feel it represents something great and is threatened. Does it? That changes with times, and if hypothetically China invaded us, I'd see that as a just fight, but other circumstances don't warrant me killing for the US.
Killing of any type isn't something to be glorified. I don't feel like killing some guy unless I see him as a real threat. And unless I'm in Iraq, I doubt that guy will come over and try to harm me.

Let's leave on this note:
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori
-Wilfred Owen. A man who saw real, brutal war, and died in it.

Funny, I used to love that quote (by Horace). Things change.

 

[Ofuh]

I'm young, fit, and have what it takes. I have friends in the service. I know the benefits of wearing a uniform in public. I know the great deal of respect some people have for those in it. I could get a few benefits afterward. I could be a help for my country.

So why haven't I signed up? I once was all about it- "oh, when I grow up, I'm gonna sign me up and kill me some terrorists!" But I grew out of that and even though I've been tempted since, have dealt with recruiters of all sorts, and have been to a few bases, for reasons other than to witness the military in action and consider it. My reasons are that I don't agree with this war, and feel that I most likely won't agree with any ones coming up, but if one does happen, I'll consider it. I don't feel like killing people I don't hate, or dying young because I happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, killed by someone who probably does hate me even though he doesn't know me. I'm no pacifist, I believe the are just fights, but I don't see this war filling out any just reasons. Sure you could say I'm being picky- 'you can't shop around for a good fight!', you may say I'm scared- 'aww, poor baby don't wanna fight?', and you might also say that this country has done so much for me, I should pay it back. But no, I refuse. This country is indeed better than many if not most nations, but I don't see me fighting this war as defending it further, advancing it's 'ideals', or really helping anyone. And to if I owe this country something, is that in the fine-print or something that I must repay it with blood? Is the draft going?
I will fight when I know what I'm dying for is worth it. Family, friends, all loved ones, a cause, an ideal- those things I will fight for, I will die for. But that's not what this war is about. My country may be a good one, but I will not die for the sake of America, I will die for it if I feel it represents something great and is threatened. Does it? That changes with times, and if hypothetically China invaded us, I'd see that as a just fight, but other circumstances don't warrant me killing for the US.
Killing of any type isn't something to be glorified. I don't feel like killing some guy unless I see him as a real threat. And unless I'm in Iraq, I doubt that guy will come over and try to harm me.

Let's leave on this note:
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori
-Wilfred Owen. A man who saw real, brutal war, and died in it.

Funny, I used to love that quote (by Horace). Things change.

Funny how for someone who seems to know so damn much and be so qualified for military service, you're still stuck with the idea that if you join the military you're going to be in a warzone.

You know for each person that fights, there is a good number of people doing support jobs that don't fight. You can be anything from a musician, photographer, nuclear technician, mechanic, cop, chef.

 

[downtown]

-When you do get out, get your degree, apply for a job, who are they going to take, the guy who graduated high school went to college? or the guy who graduated high school, joined the army, and then got a degree?

The guy that just went to college enters the workforce first.