why is Saladin leader of Arabia ? (and why i should be something else civ leader)

[dark-mysterio]

hello i don't know if this the right place to ask the question so sorry if this is not

why is Saladin leader of Arabia ? should he be technically leader of egypt ?

this would introduce a new Islamic Egypt/Misr empire civ unavailable with tons of character from early independent Turkish dynasty (Ikhshids,Tulunids),the Fatimid who founded Cairo the Ayyubid of Saladin,the late middle age/early renaissance Mamlouks all to the 1800 Muhammad Ali of Egypt and IS 1900 kings of egypt descendant (if they count as acceptable civ leader)

this could also (but there is very minor/to none chance of that happening) that if this civ appear than via the Fatimid they could split up islam and introduce shia islam in the game

thank you please for whoever respond and sorry for my english

 

[Patine]

hello i don't know if this the right place to ask the question so sorry if this is not

why is Saladin leader of Arabia ? should he be technically leader of egypt ?

this would introduce a new Islamic Egypt/Misr empire civ unavailable with tons of character from early independent Turkish dynasty (Ikhshids,Tulunids),the Fatimid who founded Cairo the Ayyubid of Saladin,the late middle age/early renaissance Mamlouks all to the 1800 Muhammad Ali of Egypt and IS 1900 kings of egypt descendant (if they count as acceptable civ leader)

this could also (but there is very minor/to none chance of that happening) that via the Fatimid they could split up islam and introduce shia islam for the fatimid

thank you please for whoever respond and sorry for my english

I've asked this before. He was not even an Arab (he was ethnically Kurdish), and he NEVER, in his whole life, held the title of Caliph. I'm clueless by this, too.

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

wasn't he leading Arabia in Civ 4?

 

[SlySlySly]

They don't just go for leaders of the nations. They also go for influential/important figures in the region. Eleanor of Aquitaine is a good example. She wasn't a ruler of the Kingdom of France but she held lands in the region and was a vassal before her unification with England.
Also about Saladin:
He was originally within the Fatimid government, which was part of the Arabian Empire for quite some time. He eventually formed the Ayyubid Dynasty. The Ayyubid sultanate held large parts of Arabia. He also worked with the Abbasid Dynasty which also held large parts of Arabia.

 

[The googles do nothing]

why is Saladin leader of Arabia ? should he be technically leader of egypt ?

The general public of the American market thinks of Egypt as the Dynastic to Ptolemaic period and thinks of Arabia as the same as Islamic.

 

[Patine]

wasn't he leading Arabia in Civ 4?

I've never played Civ4, myself.

The general public of the American market thinks of Egypt as the Dynastic to Ptolemaic period, and thinks of Arabia as the same as Islamic.

The general American public needs more education.

El-Sisi would be profoundly annoyed at the immense PR benefit the al-Saud's got from such wrong-headed and erroneous thinking.

Besides, Civ6 has a MUCH higher percentage of non-American players than earlier iterations of the game. Firaxis should take that into account, too...

 

[dark-mysterio]

ok thank you all for your response

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

He ruled from Egypt which was part of the Arabian sphere of influence which comprised of Syria, Mesopotamia and parts of the Arabian peninsula as well. in that regard I don't see him as a problem ruling Arabia.
It makes more sense than him leading Egypt that has always been represented, as stated earlier, by the ancient dynasties.

 

[Patine]

He ruled from Egypt which was part of the Arabian sphere of influence which comprised of Syria, Mesopotamia and parts of the Arabian peninsula as well. in that regard I don't see him as a problem ruling Arabia.
It makes more sense than him leading Egypt that has always been represented, as stated earlier, by the ancient dynasties.

What nation would, hypothetically-speaking, Abdel Gamal Nasser be to you, then? Or Mohammed Ali (and not the boxer)?

 

[AntSou]

What nation would, hypothetically-speaking, Abdel Gamal Nasser be to you, then? Or Mohammed Ali (and not the boxer)?

You'd need Ancient Egypt and Egypt in that case.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Astride Egypt and Arabia.
Also add Aaron (Civ 5) as Leader of Arab, seated in Mecca.

 

[dark-mysterio]

Astride Egypt and Arabia.
Also add Aaron (Civ 5) as Leader of Arab, seated in Mecca.

Mecca ok but why not in Baghdad (or somewhere in Iraq) ?

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

So did Aaron's Caliphate seat is in Baghdad rather than Mecca?

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

He ruled from Egypt which was part of the Arabian sphere of influence which comprised of Syria, Mesopotamia and parts of the Arabian peninsula as well. in that regard I don't see him as a problem ruling Arabia.
It makes more sense than him leading Egypt that has always been represented, as stated earlier, by the ancient dynasties.

Why Firaxis choose Cairo as Saladin's seat rather than Mecca, Medina or Baghdad?

 

[Patine]

Why Firaxis choose Cairo as Saladin's seat rather than Mecca, Medina or Baghdad?

Saladin was never a Caliph (or an Arab or an Sayyid - and you must be a Sayyid to legitimately stake a claim to being Caliph - even Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was a prized asset by the groups that formed ISIS for that heritage), and he never ruled from Baghdad, Medina, or Mecca - in fact, I'm uncertain whether any or all of those cities were within the territory he ruled. I hope that helps answer that question.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I did play Ages of Empires II before. almost two decades ago. there were Saladin campaigns, his first mission was to retake Cairo, (The bombard ships were sorely anachronistic, the ships of these types appeared several centuries after his time). The second or third if i remember correctly, fought in Arabia.

 

[Patine]

I did play Ages of Empires II before. almost two decades ago. there were Saladin campaigns, his first mission was to retake Cairo, (The bombard ships were sorely anachronistic, the ships of these types appeared several centuries after his time). The second or third if i remember correctly, fought in Arabia.

Quite possibly. But I've played all of the Age of Empires game myself. And the scale is different. A single scenario (either within a campaign, on it's own, or a PvP scenario) has about the scope, at most, of a single space on a Civ game map - more or less. Also, just because he fought "in Arabia," (which is geographically not that small) doesn't mean he ever ruled Mecca or Medina, or certainly ever ruled from either of them. To my knowledge, no one ever ruled from Mecca or Medina since the conquests of Abu Bakr, the successor of Mohammed and the first Caliph, really got started and they conquered some cities in the Tigris-Euphrates Valley, with the exception of the short-lived independent Hedjaz created after the fall of the Ottoman Empire until it was annexed by Saudi Arabia in the mid- to -late '20's (ruled by the Shariff of Mecca and Medina and the father of the first Emir of Transjordan, the great-grandfather of the modern King of Jordan, as well as his brother, the first King of Iraq, whose grandson would be overthrown in the '60's), but that was much, much later. I'm pretty sure Saladin didn't ever rule in Baghdad, either, and, as I've said, I'm not even sure he ruled it, or at least not firmly.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Why Firaxis choose Cairo as Saladin's seat rather than Mecca, Medina or Baghdad?

Because that's where he ruled, like they have done for all the leaders, except Shaka for some reason and Hojo but Kyoto was the official capital of the emperor, not the shogunate.

 

[dark-mysterio]

Saladin was never a Caliph (or an Arab or an Sayyid - and you must be a Sayyid to legitimately stake a claim to being Caliph - even Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was a prized asset by the groups that formed ISIS for that heritage), and he never ruled from Baghdad, Medina, or Mecca - in fact, I'm uncertain whether any or all of those cities were within the territory he ruled. I hope that helps answer that question.

certain Muslim like the kharidjite/ibadite or almohad doctrine doesn't require to be anArab or Sayyid to be caliph

 

[Patine]

certain Muslim like the kharidjite/ibadite or almohad doctrine doesn't have require to be an an Arab or Sayyid to be caliph

To my knowledge, the Ibadi Sect of Oman and Zanzibar are very leery and dubious of ANYONE claiming a title of succession directly from Mohammed such as Caliph. I believe they even dismiss, or are at least very critical of, the Occultation of the Mahdi, if I'm not mistaken.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Saladin was neither an Ibadi or Almohad, and was being judged by, nor trying to impress or prove any legitimacy, to either.