Why Most Americans Consider Soccer Girly

[Son_Of_Dido]

The "diving" argument doesn't really stand up after you've seen an NFL wide receiver through a histrionic tantrum that would make any toddler proud in order to draw a Pass Interference call from a referee. I mean, I loves me some American Football and I always will, but, come on now, let's be fair.

Marla: A bit harsh, but it's similar to one of my theories on why the U.S. team has not (and probably never will) get over the hump; over here, Soccer is the rich kid's game, not the poor kid's. Now, don't be mistaken; we HAVE that athlete. The poor, hungry kids of the barrio, or the ghetto, or the wrong side of the tracks. We've got him. It's just that over here, he's going to see that Basketball, or Football (or in some cases, boxing) is the sporting life that's going to get him out of the slums and into the good life, not soccer. So why would he turn his athletic talent towards soccer? It runs the risk of treading into Patronizing "noble savage" territory, but there probably is something to it; as good and as even great as our players and our team could one day be, they'll never be as "hungry" as the best players on the best teams (Brazil et al) because of this key difference.

Also, as a general comment to everyone, don't underestimate this factor: Our Women's Team wins World Cups (and is still a legitimate contender). Our men's team doesn't.

If you tuned in to ESPN or sports talk radio last summer, in the wake of the Hope Solo fiasco, you would have heard it: a brief shining moment, just a couple of days, where Americans were actually tuning in and calling in and yelling and shouting about SOCCER, angry about why a good enough to win team didn't win, second guessing a soccer coach. Caring way too much about a soccer team losing, just like every other country in the world.

But it was our women's team, not our men's team.

 

[warpus]

I'm tempted just to reply that I don't care. But since we can assume that to be the case, let's talk about this one - why on earth does the name of the tournament's final have anything to do with the nature and the quality of the sport ? C'mon, Warpus, you're too bright for that sort of knee-jerk reaction.

I don't enjoy watching pretentious sports, and don't really like pretentious things and/or people in general.

I'm not saying that baseball is pretentious; but that name sure is. I would have the same reaction if any other country/region/sport did the same thing. England's professional soccer tournament (EPL) gets renamed to "The World championships" ? I stop caring. It's just silly.

It doesn't really matter, though. I used to be a huge baseball fan when I was younger.. but then eventually I just stopped paying attention. I don't hate baseball for the above reason; just thought I would voice my opinion since that topic rarely comes up.

As for the topic at hand, there are more soccer fans in the U.S. than you might imagine. Most of your immigrants love soccer, especially those Spanish-speaking ones, which are in the majority. They just follow European and South American leagues, that's all. I see this slowly changing with the MLS getting more teams and better players. The quality of the play isn't really that bad.. MLS teams could easily take on English Championship teams.. and probably even do alright against French or German League 1/Bundesliga teams. Heck, Toronto FC took on Aston Villa last year and we did alright.. Lost 4-2 I think.. Aston Villa brought their full squad, as far as I remember.. I sure remember seeing Ashley Young there, and some of the other stars. Our team wasn't even that good last year.. We only got Rorbert, Guevarra, etc. this year. We were one of the weaker sides in the MLS and we did well against a top-half Premiership side. That's impressive!

I was in Vegas 2 weeks ago, and I saw MLS games on TV from time to time, in casino here, in a window there.. I was genuinely surprised.. I did not expect that at all. Heck, our hotel lobby even showed a couple Premiership matches on Saturday morning.

The U.S. men's team? It's not really that bad.. In fact.. They are decent. They do alright in the World Cup. Of course it will be decades before they win one of those things; and that's something Americans are going to have to get used to. Only the best of the best win World Cups.. Only legends win World Cups..

America isn't at that level yet, and it will be decades before it's anywhere close, but that's just asking for too much right now. You have a good team and you can compete against some of the best teams in the world! You guys are going to have to get a bit more into the mentality of the sport, which is far different from what you're used to. I see it happening.. The MLS took Toronto like a storm.. It's HUGE there. Sure, that's not the U.S., but our cultures are so similar.. You guys could learn from us

And back to the girly thing.. That's just a weak excuse by those who want to dismiss the sport out of hand, because it's not popular.. on top of all the other reasons I brought up in my earlier post.

 

[Echse]

All I can say is that my favorite soccer commentators are working for an american channel. I watch Bundesliga on Gol-tv and the coverage is perfect.
I think it´s really funny that the commercials in the halftime are mostly in spanish language. Even the US-Military makes commercials in spanish.....

To be honest I´m glad that many americans consider soccer girly. If they had a strong league from the beginning they surely had changed the rules so tv stations can make commercials every 5 minutes.

 

[REDY]

Its good that USA is not so good in football, its only opponent with who we had been able comfortably won. Ghana and Italy were totally out of our league and crashed our injured team with difference of 2 classes.

 

[EnlightenmentHK]

I'd have far more respect for baseball if this competition had a more .. proper name.

Eh...baseball is arguably a more international sport cricket. Certainly than rugby and the other major TV team sports that aren't soccer. Sure there's 120 or so national cricket leagues, but most of those are little more than a few dozen Expats who started a club with a few locals. The vast majority of the places where its hugely popular are pretty much exclusively former British colonies or protectorates. Its a commonwealth game for the most part. The sun never set on the empire and they exported their national sport.

Baseball by contrast spread without the necessity of empire. Is popular throughout North America, Latin America and Southeast Asia. Cricket beats it in the number of absolute players largely because of India (a ton of people). But if you remove India for Cricket and America for baseball, I think you'll find roughly comparable numbers for the rest of the total players.

The difference is of course that each of those heavy cricket nations has their own competitive leagues. With baseball there's only two countries where you can make a serious amount of money playing professionally. And so all the players come here. But the makeup of these teams is increasingly international. Mexico. Cuba. Canada. Japan. Taiwan. Venezuela. Korea. The Dominican Republic. You will find many players from all of these countries and more playing baseball in America.

I think roughly half of our minor league players are from Latin America. I'm pretty sure they account for a third of the majors. Given the success of a number of earlier pioneers, we're seeing a larger and larger influx of Japanese and other asian players. The first truly international 'World Tournament' was held and it was competitive (at least amongst the top nations, a few of them definitely needed some work) and America didn't even win it.

I think its an international enough sport, even with the only truly major league occupying one country (with respect and acknowledgment to Japan...and Toronto), to make 'World Series' at least not a complete misnomer.

 

[warpus]

Well.. You can't really be "World" Champions unless you challenge teams from all around the world, now can you?

Playing local teams only and being crowned World Champions makes about as much sense as me declaring myself as the Duke of Edinburgh and a crowned knight.

So the real question is.. are you going to call me warpus? Or Sir Warpus?

 

[Hitti-Litti]

Eh...baseball is arguably a more international sport cricket. Certainly than rugby and the other major TV team sports that aren't soccer.

What are other major TV team sports? If you mean for example basketball, then, well, it's much more international than for example baseball.

 

[Fetus4188]

I don't see any other sport than soccer/football where it is considered as a national achievement that the home team has reached the 2nd round of a World Cup. I recall that even many Americans were all proud to have reached the quarters in 2002!!

This fact alone probably proves that football is not like any other sports.

This just shows that the World Cup is unlike most other sporting events. You see the same sort of pride for Olympic success.

 

[TheLastOne36]

This just shows that the World Cup is unlike most other sporting events. You see the same sort of pride for Olympic success.

Who said the World Cup was different?

It's like other sporting events except every team in the world participates (excluding late entries, and the such) unlike in other games where only a handfull of teams participate.

Also i have a question for the OT, if football er soccer is so girly, then why is it the most popular sport in the world?

Also why do you call your sport Football? iirc you use your hands in american football, you should name it something else.

 

[Fetus4188]

Who said the World Cup was different?

Umm.. Marla did, in the post I quoted.

 

[Esckey]

Plenty of Dives in Hockey. Just watch Avery or Crosby.

 

[illram]

The irony in this thread is the best soccer players in America are... women.

Not saying its girly (it most certainly is not, as El mentioned soccer players are among the most well conditioned all-round athletes you will find in any sport) just thought that was kind of funny.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Most Americans don't think soccer is girly.

 

[EnlightenmentHK]

Also i have a question for the OT, if football er soccer is so girly, then why is it the most popular sport in the world?

I'm not saying soccer is girly, but popularity says nothing about the subject one way or another. Something can be popular and girly. Popular and low quality. Popular and outright bad. That happens.

Also why do you call your sport Football? iirc you use your hands in american football, you should name it something else.

Probably because its our sport and we'll call it what we like. Why do brits call a flashlight a torch? I don't see any flames on the thing.

What are other major TV team sports? If you mean for example basketball, then, well, it's much more international than for example baseball.

Well wiki had a list and I've read other stuff on this before (though I can't seem to google it up at the moment), but their list goes as so.

"Worldwide, baseball is estimated as being the seventh most popular sport, behind Association football (soccer), cricket, field hockey, tennis, volleyball and table tennis"

Now Tennis ain't a team sport. And maybe its different throughout the rest of the world, but I have a bit of trouble considering Field Hockey, Volleyball, and Table tennis as one of those 'MAJOR TV sports'. But basketball isn't up there. I think basketball has a strong following in certain places and a moderate following in alot of others. It also has the international competitions going. But I'm fairly certain it loses out in attendance, popularity, and overall players when compared to baseball.

Well.. You can't really be "World" Champions unless you challenge teams from all around the world, now can you?

Playing local teams only and being crowned World Champions makes about as much sense as me declaring myself as the Duke of Edinburgh and a crowned knight.

If you have nearly all the best players in the world in one league and win a league championship, than yes, you can make a fair argument for 'world champion'. All this is is a different way of doing business. A different business model. With baseball, the two major domestic leagues are the profit centers and the focus of all the best talent and attention. In other sports, like cricket, its the international competitions that are the big deal. (you'll note that alot of the domestic leagues don't make much money and often don't pay that well either)

But that doesn't necessarily make those sports more international than the other. More than a third of the players of this 'American sport' aren't American. And more than half of the minor leagues aren't American either. And those countries that we're importing those players from? They're playing it, watching, and loving it themselves in large numbers.

Like I said, a different model but still quite international. America (and to a lesser extent Japan) just happens to be where the money is. And I guarantee that if we took a HUGE national interest in any sport out there except soccer, we could buy and import all the best global talent there as well. Noone would make the argument that Ice Hockey isn't international, nor is America be all, end all of the sport. But most of the world's best players still play in the NHL.

 

[warpus]

Pfft.. Beat the Japanese and Cuban champions, and maybe then you'd legimately be crowned World Champions.

Till then, you're U.S. champions.

 

[azzaman333]

I'm not saying soccer is girly, but popularity says nothing about the subject one way or another. Something can be popular and girly. Popular and low quality. Popular and outright bad. That happens.



Probably because its our sport and we'll call it what we like. Why do brits call a flashlight a torch? I don't see any flames on the thing.



Well wiki had a list and I've read other stuff on this before (though I can't seem to google it up at the moment), but their list goes as so.

"Worldwide, baseball is estimated as being the seventh most popular sport, behind Association football (soccer), cricket, field hockey, tennis, volleyball and table tennis"

Now Tennis ain't a team sport. And maybe its different throughout the rest of the world, but I have a bit of trouble considering Field Hockey, Volleyball, and Table tennis as one of those 'MAJOR TV sports'. But basketball isn't up there. I think basketball has a strong following in certain places and a moderate following in alot of others. It also has the international competitions going. But I'm fairly certain it loses out in attendance, popularity, and overall players when compared to baseball.



If you have nearly all the best players in the world in one league and win a league championship, than yes, you can make a fair argument for 'world champion'. All this is is a different way of doing business. A different business model. With baseball, the two major domestic leagues are the profit centers and the focus of all the best talent and attention. In other sports, like cricket, its the international competitions that are the big deal. (you'll note that alot of the domestic leagues don't make much money and often don't pay that well either)

But that doesn't necessarily make those sports more international than the other. More than a third of the players of this 'American sport' aren't American. And more than half of the minor leagues aren't American either. And those countries that we're importing those players from? They're playing it, watching, and loving it themselves in large numbers.

Like I said, a different model but still quite international. America (and to a lesser extent Japan) just happens to be where the money is. And I guarantee that if we took a HUGE national interest in any sport out there except soccer, we could buy and import all the best global talent there as well. Noone would make the argument that Ice Hockey isn't international, nor is America be all, end all of the sport. But most of the world's best players still play in the NHL.

Reponse solely to the bolded parts.

I wouldn't call baseball a major TV sport.

And the Indian Premier League pays huge money for the best cricketers to compete in in. But they aren't going to claim the team that wins are world champions.

 

[Winner]

Personally, I find it boring to watch (but it's always fun to play ). It's watchable only at the highest level. The only football game I ever really enjoyed was Czech rep. vs. Netherlands on Euro 2004.

GAME OF EURO 2004

The classic group game between Holland and the Czech Republic. Holland raced into a two-goal lead through Wilfred Bouma and Ruud van Nistelrooy before Jan Koller pulled one back.

It set the stage for a stunning Czech comeback, with Milan Baros equalising before his Liverpool team-mate Vladimir Smicer slid home the winner for a 3-2 victory with two minutes left.

Once again a reward for bravery by Karel Bruckner and his team - Sven-Goran Eriksson take note.

This game was tense and entertaining. My problem with football is that the teams don't score enough. I mean, results like 1-0, 1-1, 2-1 are standard. I am not going to watch a 90 minutes long game only to see few good actions.

Ice hockey is much more entertaining, imho.

 

[downtown]

Pfft.. Beat the Japanese and Cuban champions, and maybe then you'd legimately be crowned World Champions.

Till then, you're U.S. champions.

There really wouldn't be a point, since Major League Baseball is is such a higher quality league than any other domestic one. The best players from Japan, Cuba, PR, DR, etc all come here, just like the best EUROleague basketballers try to play in the NBA.

We have a baseball world cup, called the Baseball World Classic, which brings teams from other countries to play against each other...but all the good ones are filled with MLB players, not guys from their domestic leagues.

 

[dido]

There really wouldn't be a point, since Major League Baseball is is such a higher quality league than any other domestic one. The best players from Japan, Cuba, PR, DR, etc all come here, just like the best EUROleague basketballers try to play in the NBA.

We have a baseball world cup, called the Baseball World Classic, which brings teams from other countries to play against each other...but all the good ones are filled with MLB players, not guys from their domestic leagues.

all the best soccer players are plaing in Europe, that doesnt make the European teams champions of the world. many brazilian/argentine teams have beaten these euro champions in the recent years

 

[col]

This game was tense and entertaining. My problem with football is that the teams don't score enough. I mean, results like 1-0, 1-1, 2-1 are standard. I am not going to watch a 90 minutes long game only to see few good actions.

Ice hockey is much more entertaining, imho.

There can be lots of action - just not always a lot of goals. 0-0 can be a great game.

I find basketball incredibly dull because there are too many scores.