why no hebrew civ ???

[civaddict098]

How would it be politically incorect to have the hebrews or Israelis as a civ?

 

[jwijn]

If Europe also conquered Africa, would that make them African? I think not.

My family were among first Dutch Jews in Africa, and we consider ourselves more African than anything else. Even Kwame Nkrumah and Julius Nyerere, two leaders of the Pan-African movement, accepted and worked with the white Africans as their equals. Worrying about race will only splinter Africa.

 

[lukedukekiwi]

How would it be politically incorect to have the hebrews or Israelis as a civ?

There existance wouldnt be, but rather what some players may choose to do to them.

What i was getting at is it is not possible to recreate a number of historys atrocities or questionable events. I mean if genocide, slavery, illicit cargos (think opium wars), terrorism, globalization, chemical and biological warefare, controversial leaders (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Bush .....) to name a few ideas were part of the game it would make a much more colourful model of history, yet for either commercial or regulatory reasons these sorts of things are left out.

 

[jimkirk]

I guess I got off the topic some, and as far as that goes, I'm not really pushing for a Hebrew civilization in the game either.. I'm neither for nor against it, but I think there are certainly more deserving civs that have been left out

they couldn't include everyone, and thats the real answer to the question.. even some old favorites were left out to make way for the new.. and everyone can just make a custom tribe in the editor I'm sure, and be happy

they left out babylon too do you really expect the game developers to include either modern israel or ancient israel .. lol i expect a modder to prolly mod them in

to the other poster "troytheface" hes just a ninkapoop who doesnt have the slightest idea of history
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the israelites or jews or whatever you want to call the ancient jewish empire yes read that as empire or whatever name you want to call it was the one group the romans didnt exactly want to face a group (sort of like modern day islam)who was hellbent on fighting the "foreign pagan worshipper"the romans were pagan at the time and were fanaticly hellbent on fighting them at any cost josephus flavius (that was his roman name )was originally a jewish general and a pretty good one too however he made a tactical boo boo (he was kinda houghty and egoistical )and his division got slaughtered he was stationed soemwhere in the north where the galil is today galil/golan

he was the onle one or one of the few who survived the battle he stayed alive because he talked his way into staying alive and currying favor with the roman general who defeated him he later changed his hebrew name and took on his roman name and dedicated the remainder of his time to chronicle the history of his day kinda like a diary/blog of course he was accused by the jews as selling out and and accused that his writing was slanted towards the roman view (i did say he wanted to stay alive )so whether you belive his writings are accurate or not his writings does give a glimpse or a window of life in that time frame .. and there are very few writings from that time frame that survived.. anotehr thing you have to understand about that time period
the jews in israel were split into many different camps some like nationalist (think modern day zionist) were just intrested in fighting any foreigner any no matter who especially pagan worshippers and others like the rabbinical groups (think like modern day orthodox or traditional jews) didnt want to battle the romans or anyone else they would rather pay homage/tax or whatever as long as there were no bloodshed probelm was the nationalist couldnt be controlled by the rabbinical jews(they were called pharisees)and openly rebeled against the romans . bar kochba was an example his own ego eventually led to his downfall i belive josephus has a few stories about him

there is a lot to history and we can go on and on
whatever the case those who havent studied that time period please dont bash and those who have comment away

one link to some info about josephus
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Josephus.html

there are many others too google his name

another link to the great (and last) jewish rebelion against rome
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt.html
i just say if it wernt for the zealots the jews might have pulled out a upset victory over the romans but the zealots were involved in a bitter civl war with other jews read on

this link talks about the bar kochba incident
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt1.html
it was the romans who renamed the country from judea to "palastina"
and renamed jerusalem to aelia capitolina

 

[jimkirk]

they dont deny it.

I think it is pretty much assumed by most governments today that Israel posseses some nukes.

they never signed the nuclear prolification treaty like most nuclear nations

a few years back some snitch ahem spy actually revealed that they did soemwhere in dimona i forgot his name he went to england rather fled from israel to england and from there is was captured by a female mossad operative (hehe he had an appetite for nice women) and was put on trial in israel in the late 1986 or 1987 thereabout and got a sentence for 10 years for spying now hes sorta free

 

[Willem]

What you're talking about is kind of like the Civil Wars in Civ II, where if you took a country's capital, there was a chance it would break off in to two different civs. Again, all it really did was add just one more rival to the mix. It didn't, in my opinion, increase enjoyability.

What you usually ended up with was two weak rivals instead of one strong one. That made the game to easy to win.

 

[Cyberstar]

The Hebrew people are probably the most diasperate people in history. They once ruled a large kingdom during the reigns of David and Solomon. However, from 587BC-1948AD they've had no country to really call their own, but were subjected to other rulers. They have since lived on in virtually every country/region of the world. They have maintained a relatively pure faith, which is represented in the game, but it's quite curious that the people group that "founded" this religion isn't even in the game. This would seem a massively embarrassing oversight on the part of the developers.

 

[jimkirk]

The Hebrew people are probably the most diasperate people in history. They once ruled a large kingdom during the reigns of David and Solomon. However, from 587BC-1948AD they've had no country to really call their own, but were subjected to other rulers. They have since lived on in virtually every country/region of the world. They have maintained a relatively pure faith, which is represented in the game, but it's quite curious that the people group that "founded" this religion isn't even in the game. This would seem a massively embarrassing oversight on the part of the developers.

true but many jews did contribute to society by a lot

joseph salk = invented the polio vaccine
bob dylan = folk singer/poet
steve spielberg = director

so on and so forth from science to medicine to entertainment
the list is too long to name everyone but you get the idea

 

[jimkirk]

cyberstar i wouldnt worry that much they also left out babylon but strangly included mali
the only logical explanation is political correctedness

thankfully the game is not meant to be reality and that the game is so freakin addictive that if they decided to name all the civs after romulans and klingons it wouldnt matter .. so if they feel the need to be politicaly correct so be it i belive political correctedness is a big effing waste of time

but my opinion doesnt matter as long as the game is addictive and fun nothing else matters

 

[Inhalaattori]

The British were actually quite accomodating to the native peoples, as were the French.

Yeah, Frech were. But British were not that much, at least not in Africa.

 

[troytheface]

oh insulting there ol jimkirk? Now you may be like ten years old or in high school or something so i will temper meself- i am gald you have ur little sources and are fond of your perceptions but both i personally do not deem as "truth" nor accurate. Moderator Action: Report it - don't respond to it.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
However, since name calling is your game - i refer to ur type of cognitive process as "read and regurgitate and back up yawningly boring self directed premises while writing as if they are in "the know" completely unaware and of and trapped in the most basic of unconcious drives".
A simple thread actually. Jewish players want Isreal in. Apologise fer me simplicity.

 

[elderotter]

Yeah, Frech were. But British were not that much, at least not in Africa.

Well the British thought they were being accomodating to the poor, barbaric, inferior and very unclean natives. They can't help that they werent born in Jolly old England, you know...sniff.

 

[Tactician Zhao]

true but many jews did contribute to society by a lot

joseph salk = invented the polio vaccine
bob dylan = folk singer/poet
steve spielberg = director

so on and so forth from science to medicine to entertainment
the list is too long to name everyone but you get the idea

don't forget

David Lee Roth lights the menorrah,
So do James Caan, Kirk Douglas, and the late Dinah Shore-ah

 

[Karnak]

The Iraquois Confederation had significant impact on the thoughts of Founding Fathers. I think the Iraquois Confederation would be a worthy addition at some point.

 

[civaddict098]

troytheface, im sure there are more than just jews who want Israel in the game.

 

[troytheface]

never said otherwise.

 

[EdCase]

don't forget

David Lee Roth lights the menorrah,
So do James Caan, Kirk Douglas, and the late Dinah Shore-ah

Of course this makes them Jewish..but doesn't mean they aren't American..so we could represent that with religions in the game..[/sarcasm] Oh!! wait..they are doing that [/sarcasm]

 

[Tactician Zhao]

Of course this makes them Jewish..but doesn't mean they aren't American..so we could represent that with religions in the game..[/sarcasm] Oh!! wait..they are doing that [/sarcasm]

oh, and Jonas Salk, Bob Dylan and Steven Spielberg aren't American?

I thought he was listing those jews who have made cultural or scientific contributions, so I thought I'd make a light-hearted joke referencing the Hanukkah Song

 

[Mujadaddy]

Why no Hebrew Civ??????????????????????????????????????????????????

There's not been one for a sufficient period of time, at least that's how Firaxis feels apparently.

 

[jimkirk]

don't forget

David Lee Roth lights the menorrah,
So do James Caan, Kirk Douglas, and the late Dinah Shore-ah

and i forgot about my favorite william shatner aka captain kirk

and leonard nimoy good ole spock