Why no political parties?

Oh, and by the way. I have almost no 'say' as far as the actual game of CIV3 goes. I generally do what I am asked to do by the citizens. All of the leaders have more influence because they were elected, so they more closely represent the citizens than you do, methinks...
 
So theres not a poll yet, but 2 out of 2 'Chieftens' are for it. That sounds like 100% to me. Well, i think we should see what the rest of the citizens think. So lets just see. i may be wrong in which case ill shut up and sit down. But im pretty sure theres many other people who are all for it. And did you guys miss the part about talking about ways to improve the idea.

In an unrelated note, can someone give me directions to the Pub, i hear good things.

The Great Iguanaman
 
Originally posted by Great Iguanaman
So theres not a poll yet, but 2 out of 2 'Chieftens' are for it. That sounds like 100% to me. Well, i think we should see what the rest of the citizens think. So lets just see. i may be wrong in which case ill shut up and sit down. But im pretty sure theres many other people who are all for it. And did you guys miss the part about talking about ways to improve the idea.

In an unrelated note, can someone give me directions to the Pub, i hear good things.

The Great Iguanaman
Click to expand...

Well, I don't think there are too many Chieftens in this game at all. Most prefer to change that title to something else...

The pub is in the central square.

Once this discussion has been going for a couple days, a poll will be appropriate.
 
Originally posted by Great Iguanaman
And did you guys miss the part about talking about ways to improve the idea.
Click to expand...

Well... you asked why we didn't have political parties, so we answered. :)

BTW, Cyc is now a citizen. So, that's 2 out of 3. :D
 
Once again I stand corrected, i did 'ask'. But it was more a rhetorical title. my bad. i have a new proposal, along the same lines so im gonna use this thread. Instead of calling it a politcal party, which are ugly words, and make somtheing call The Gentlemans Club. Here, you join the club, we talk about recent issues, and then decide. Remember there is absolutely no way to know who voted what (unless they say) and to force someone to vote a certain way period. If this is okay, just say so and i will get to work on a proposal.


The Great Iguanaman
 
Oh dear, here we go again...

I cannot see political parties being anything but artificially divisive. In the current situation the citizenry need never feel under any obligation to argue a position or cast a vote that conflicts with their beliefs regarding what is in the best interests of the nation. Everyone can state their opinion or make a proposal, whatsoever it may be, to the entire citizenry and know that it stands or falls on its own merits rather than on whether their party commands the greatest support. As a number of my fellow citizens have pointed out in this thread, political parties would just serve to stifle individual voices and IMO could cause citizens who do not belong to the controlling party to leave the demogame due to their effective disenfranchisement. Would you want to bother with a game in which you can have little or no say?
You argue that newer citizens' opinions and ideas do not hold any weight in the demogame, but I certainly did not find that to be the case when I first joined and have not seen any shift towards elitism in the time since. It's not your postcount or the length of time you have been a citizen that determines whether your ideas are taken up around here, but rather the nature of your idea itself and the force of the arguments which you use to advance it. I feel that this is the way the demogame should be, and have no desire to see that way of doing things wiped out by partisanship.
 
I am against political parties and have a real world example. When in college (some time ago), my friends in the student government and I formed a de facto party to help raise awareness of things we felt were important. In the end we basically controlled the student govt', had no input from anyone else (why bother, as they could *never* win in any issue we opposed) and alienated most of the thoughtful people who would have been involved had we not locked everything up. Sad to say, we also ended up with some positions filled by people who agreed with us, but were not terribly motivated by anything other than being on the winning team. The following year we ditched the party idea, and had an incredible, vibrant, talented, opinionated group, and actually got more done with better, more thought-out discussion. Political Parties in a small community kill good ideas. Plain and simple.
 
And a follow-up note. I was elected to public office here despite being an outsider and latecomer to the game. This would never have happened with parties unless I subscribed to a slate of somebody else's deas and sucked up to the party leadership. I don't know how this idea that parties make a system 'more democratic' got started, but the purpose of parties is actually to make things less democratic as it replaces individuals with nomenclature and assumptions.
 
I was pushing for Political Parities last game but I was informed that when they were put into action on a previous game the game descended into arguing and ruined the entire game.
 
The history student in me has taken over the keyboard---

In this day in age, political parties have become obsolete, they no longer hold a real purpose in life, societies, as a historical subject, have advanced far beyond what political parties can offer, their historical function has been done, they helped to secure power in nations when they where being formed, they defined a course nations should take and they gave us the idea that democracy was atainable. That is all done, most historians now believe that they should be disolved, p.p. have no purpose in a society where no one wants some one else to tell them what to think or who to support just beacuse she or he is from the "home team". If p.p. are being so heavily critized by intelectuals in the real world, why should we bother with them in our?

Ehecatl Atzin
 
And for input from yet another "mere citizen", let me say that I have absolutely no interest in political parties. Their net effect on the game would be negative, and could reduce our system to a shambles.

I much prefer the current method, where each leader runs on his/her merits, and I can make my own choice between them. I do the same on all other polls; I make up my own mind based on discussion and vote accordingly.
 
Hmm..... anyone who remembers my first thread on political parties will be rather confused.... I find myself having to join the ranks of anti-party debaters. Chalk up one more simple citizen who has had some say in things without being elected... true, nobody listens, but thats beside the point... when I argued for parties upon joining nearly a year ago, I was bombarded with reaons why they shouldn't exist, and having now seen the chaos caused on Apolyton by parties, I agree that they're a bad idea. They might serve only to take away the opinion of new citizens: Little Johhny joins and has no idea what is going on, so he goes into a thread for...say... the Orange Party, and the head of the party says "Johhny vote for (somebody) for president", and so Johhny does w/o knowing who or what hes voting for. Also, I'm sure we all see the threat posed by someone creating a *cough* historically based party.... maybe advocating a certain Industrial Age gov't.... or maybe somebody hoping to take power with the N-word (ain't gonna say it!) Anyway, I hope I've proved my point... if not than at least I've gotten off my daily rant nice and early... thank you all.
 
I will not particpate in this demogame, if there were political parties. It ruins the game, and could cause people to hate one another. I cannot express how much I am against this.

-Lord Master Zarn of the Jedi Knights
 
Yes Padma, that's one of the main problems. Not just because of the political party, but also the added effect of the civ-type we're playing... If that happens, I may have to ask TF to shut the entire demogame down. :)
 
fascinating, simple fascinating. I felt so strongly for this idea i was blinded by how it would actually affect the game. However, i do not agree with all of you on all your points, but a few of them are going to make me do a 180. I am no longer backing this issue and i would like all memory i ever brought it up erased. How bout you Zarn, pull some of your mad jedi skills on us all and make us forget that i every had this terrinble idea. Thank you all for helping me see the error of my ways. I am sorry for the inconvience of my arragance. However, no one said anything about my other idea. Of you really care about it PM me or keep an eye out for anything i start. I promise this idea will actually be good :)

The Great Iguanaman
 
What topic are you talking about? There is no topic about something that is not being talked about. Is there? Were we talking about the temple that the people want to construct for the Jedis? That must be it.
 
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