Why so much anti-Germany bull here?

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Ohwell

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I have noticed a lot of threads about how Germany should not be in the game, and how they weren't inportant, etc. Well here is MY opinion. Some common things I see said are, "Germany was only in the game because of WW2 and Hitler" and other crap. Here is the truth- Adolf Hitler wasn't a German. He was an evil Jewish hating dictator. I feel the same way against the Nazi Party. People often think all Germans are Nazis and such, and therefore say such crap about them. I think the main reason people think this Is what they learn at school, propaganda, and elders who learned the same. Those ideas spread rapidly. I remember when I went to school, in America my birthplace, I learned that all Germans were evil, and all Japanese were evil, and Socialists were evil. Things like that. Schools don't make it clear that the ruling parties are the evil ones, such as the Nazi, and the Soviets. They just say, oh, Japan attacked our beloved harbor, now we shall kill them all because their Emperor is evil. I am not going to even touch that, or how true Communism and Socialism are great ideas. Germany is and was a great centre for scientific development, culture, and influence on the world. Where would we be without rockets? And their culture is fantastic. Just look at all the German fans here, and just go to Germany. You will see how great a people we are.

Not even gonna touch on beer...
 
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I honestly dont think that America or Germany should have been in this game for one reason, THey are not important civs when you take into consideration all of the worlds history, They are relativly new ones. Yes they have had a huge impact in the 20th century but that is not the entire history of the world. If they chose a German Principality instead of the country i wouldn't object. Well after looking through this i guess i just need to look at it that way. THe fact is though, that Germany is a relativly new country, it was around as a united country towards the last few years of the 1800's. This makes the coutry just over 100 years old if you consider it to have existed during its seperation.

ALso i dont have anything against German people. I have German friends and I'm Polish, living in Canada. I still give the Germans a :goodjob:. I realize they are not Nazi's but i still think that making Germany a Civ was not the best choice due to it being a relativly new country.

Oh and by the way true Communism isn't a great idea due to one fact. It assumes people are generaly good, and throughout history we've seen this to be false. Communism works on small scale when you see the people slacking off and you can tell them to get their act together or move thier asses off of the farm but in a giant country like Russia it falls flat on its face because not enough people are motivated.

Also about Germany inventing the rockets. I think it is safe to say that someone else would have invented them sooner or later, the cold war was just around the corner.

But to conclude, A German Principality deserves to be in the game, Germany the country as a civ, i think not. But yeah its just me being picky so i guess i can live with it :). And dont forget i have nothing against your people.


( edit: or we could include Prussia, was that a country or what was it again, forgive my ignorance, or was it just an area. If it was the name given to all the Germanic peoples then the Prussian civ would be a good choice, but if it was a name just given to that area of land forget this whole thing :lol: )
 

Franz-Josef II

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Ohwell, you are damn right! although I'm a bit surprised to hear something like this from an american!?!(you said you were born there...) very wise...

but please furry spatula don't say such crap!! the German tribes and later their countries were essentially for history as it happened! the developers seem to have made a mistake, namely to call it Germany!! of course "Germany" is only about 100 years old, but not the german people and their former states...!!!! just think of the Holy German Reich, that followed the eastern part of Karl the Great's Reich, which later lead to the German Bund. lasted over 100's of years!! not to mention other "german" states like Austria....!!!
raed in history books, before claiming such things....
 

Ohwell

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Originally posted by Furry Spatula
. THe fact is though, that Germany is a relativly new country, it was around as a united country towards the last few years of the 1800's. This makes the coutry just over 100 years old if you consider it to have existed during its seperation.

You show ignorance by saying this, as many have on this forum. Germany as a whole started in the Roman era. They brought down Rome you know, that alone should get them in. The Franks were the early Germanic warriors, who dominated the European continent. The first Reich was the Roman empire, they were back then. Then, the second was when Otto Bismarck united the Germanic states and created a huge empire through Europe. Then the third Reich is the one you know about, WW2.

When the game speaks about Germany, they mean all the Germanic states combined. They all had a part, so It would be foolhardy to add just Prussia, or Austria, or Bavaria, or the Netherlands. The "Germany" they added isn't the nation, it is the people who were a very influential people throuought history.
 

Hamlet

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Originally posted by Furry Spatula
I honestly dont think that America or Germany should have been in this game for one reason, THey are not important civs when you take into consideration all of the worlds history, They are relativly new ones. Yes they have had a huge impact in the 20th century but that is not the entire history of the world.[/I])

'Germany' was unified once before The 19th Century, you know. 'German' peoples have been a round for a long time, also.

Also, importance in history wasn't always a consideration for the programmers: look at The Iroquois and The Aztecs.
 
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ok i stand corrected, my ignorance was shown to me and i shall now change my evil ways :). Well anyways sorry guys. I didn't learn much about history in teh middle ages or before that. Mostly what i've learned was 20th century history, briefly some 19th century, the middle ages which i didn't pay any attention to. And BC times stuff which i cant realy rememeber. So anyways i stand corrected. In this case Germany has every right to be in the game. Only the states need to be taken out :D.
 

dannyevilcat

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I am adamant that America and Germany should be in this game. If it seems silly that Americans are around in 4000 B.C., it seems equally silly to me to have ancient Babylonians, for example, around in 2002 A.D.

Until a civ-style game comes along that can model the evolution of states, religion and nationalitites, the way it is will have to do.
 

Hamlet

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Originally posted by dannyevilcat
I am adamant that America and Germany should be in this game. If it seems silly that Americans are around in 4000 B.C., it seems equally silly to me to have ancient Babylonians, for example, around in 2002 A.D.

IT'S A GAME, FFS!!!!!!

Besides, I always thought that one of the main selling points of the game was that you could Re-write history as Firaxis phrase it, as The Babylonians, etc.
 

Sman

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I'm just so sick and tired of people whining about how they get affended because why and why not a civ is included. Just get it through your heads.. this is a game!!!! And besides this game was made so there is the past and present superpowers, that is what makes this game cool. There is always that civedit thing too.....

Well I guess you guys really are civ fanatics!! :egypt:
 

seghillian

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I would venture to suggest that civs like Germany, England, France, America etc are there is because that is where most buyers of the game live. :)

The various tribes and cultures who eventually became these peoples is a very complex story and not a subject for the game.

Perhaps Firaxis would have caused less offence by naming the civs after these ancient peoples (Celts, Gauls, Franks, Saxons etc etc.)instead of modern countries although players would identify less with such groups than they do with the modern nations mentioned above.

Or perhaps some people offend far too easily. :)

The game is fine as it is and there's an editor if you want different civs.
 

dannyevilcat

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IT'S A GAME, FFS!!!!!!

Besides, I always thought that one of the main selling points of the game was that you could Re-write history as Firaxis phrase it, as The Babylonians, etc.

Hey, I agree totally. I think all the civs in the game are just fine. I also get sick of the "what about (insert random civ)?" syndrome.

So maybe "adamant" was a bit strong a word ;)
 

connor

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Firaxis had to look at what they do at all levels to sell this game. This means including civs had little impact on the world. They took a spectrum of races that are intended, and I say intended, to represent most people in order to sell the game. They are out to make money, period. The fact that this game is fun for so many of us to play is simply a by-product.:D

Also, Germany and America should definitely be part of the game. I have lived in Switzerland and Germany and heard many people say that America has no culture, and that seems to often be the basis of most "no America in the game" threads. America is everyone, English, Irish, German, French, Chinese, Zulu, Ethiopian, Souix, etc., culturally. There is not necessarily one over-arching culture that is definitively American, but a mix of all. I like to think America takes, generally, the best of cultures and use them. Sometimes makes them better, pizza comes to mind:) .

Germany is a republic, like America, that combines states to make a country that often have their own regional cultures, but German is used as an overall defining term in the same way that America does. Both countries I think are rightfully in the game, heck German almost became the national language. Neither one can be ignored for their impacts on the world now, and in history, America is inextricably linked with most nations and Germany, one of America's most important progenitors, and its important cultural history simply cannot be ignored.
 

CrazyScientist

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America and Germany are in the game (as they should be) because they were two of the biggest players in recent history.
Civ 3 is not just about ancient times, it covers all of history, so to exclude the major world powers of modern times is just silly.
I'm well aware that history includes far more than just the last two hundred years, but if you consider it from a standpoint of scientific and technological advancement, you could almost argue that the last two centuries are really all that matter, because science and technology progress in an exponential rather than linear fashion.
So does population for that matter. There are more people alive today than there are people who have lived and died throughout history (sobering thought, but true). Therefore, the world powers of modern times have far more power and influence than all world powers that preceded them. Why do you think that a turn in civ 3 represents 50 years in ancient times, but only one in the modern?
What I'm saying is, being a new nation should not be grounds for exclusion from the game. If anything, recent world powers are more signifcant in the scope of history, in terms of lives affected, and advancements achieved, than ancient ones, even the ones that lasted for many hundreds of years.
 

God

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Aztecs- Around for a few hundred yeras after the Maya.
Babylon- Around 3000 years ago.
Iroqious- ???
America- 200 years
France- Well, guess you could say 1000 years as somebody significant.
Germany- My fav civ to play BTW. Bismarck portrait and panzers rock!
Russia- Well came around as a power after Peter(Romanovs)
England- 1500 years. Under the Roman before, and mostly barbarians before that. Made world's largest empire, English is one of the most widely spoken languages. Definetely in the game.
Rome- Should definetely be in the game. Greatest Western civ ever.
Greece- 1000 years they lasted. Did some science, and laid foundations so Romans could thrive. Definetely should be in the game.
India- Should be in the game. Only civ other than China that has remained a real significant power over the history of civilized humans.
Persia- Definetely. Been a major power for quite a while. First fought the Greeks and then the Safavids.
Zulu- Weeelll, Mali or Ghana should be there instead. THey were filthy rich kingdoms.
Egypt- Mostly in the ancient times but Cairo always remained an important city in the Middle East.
Japan- They didn't do much really. Locked up on their island, until 19th century.
China- Were a power for a long time. Definetely should be in the game.

Basically the 'defenitally should be in the game' civs are must. The rest came be changed and stuff, but I like it the way it is.

German civ rocks.
 

God

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Just wanted to say this:
Everybody complains how somebody offends Germans by saying that their leader should be Hitler, or same with Stalin, or saying one bad thing to a Jew will put you hell.
I find that some people here are sooo racist against Palestinians and Arabs, its amazing. Especially the Israelis. They are very racist.
And nobody gives a damn.
"Why don't we make Arab unit, terrorist. After all thats what they are"
What BS.
THere must be some of the most racist people here of the whole world.
Its really sad. You would think people would learn to appreciate another culture after playing such a great game, yet they seem to offend them more.
Same goes to people who say German leader should be Hitler.

Its sad.
 

Troyens

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God, you are right. Most Israelis are very racist towards Palestinians.

As for "Why so much anti-Germany bull here?"

Maybe because some of us remember the Germans murdered almost 12 million people in concentration camps in WW II (half were Jews) and millions more mostly on the Soviet front.
 

Dirk Aurel

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So true Ohwell am with you guys :goodjob:

Some are full of hostility,and spread their stupidity over these threads,the one above my posting is one for instance...

Troyens;
Well if you really "remember" Germans killing 12 million, you must be the oldest Civ gamer I know.Doubt you´re that old,rather that your memory comes fr post war propaganda films.Why not read a book instead? :rolleyes:

On the issue it being 12 million,you must know something I don´t,in fact most ppl tend towards a smaller number,for Jews who get a special mentioning in your post,I don´t quite see the difference but obviously you do,well their deathcount is around 5,7 million,what´s a 300thousand more or less eh!Anyhow, am not going to debate this with you, but have my doubts you really give a s**t about the peeps,since you picked out a single group.Hypocrite :p
 
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