Why the God of Bible is the One True God

[Master of Ceremonies]

Why the God of the Bible is the One true God

Surveys say that about 80% of Americans believe that there is a God. That’s nice, but so what? What really matters is this: Who is the ultimate authority in the universe? Who’s god is the real God? Is there really a God that I am accountable to? These are questions that every person needs to come to grips with to be at peace in their lives.

Based on years of in-depth study and an eternal quest for the truth, I have come to the conclusion that the God of the Bible is the One True God. That all other gods are actually just idols and that nearly all organized religion is corrupt. I realize that many of you will read what I have to say and scoff. Some will read this and think, “Hmmm, some neat points but I’m not convinced.” Still others who really are searching for the truth will read this and say, “There may be some truth to this. I’m going to study this some more.” Here’s to those who are searching for truth!

The Bible makes some outstanding claims. Whether you believe that God wrote the Bible through men, or that men wrote the Bible on their own, the claims are still there. You will have less trouble believing what I say here if you come from the viewpoint that God wrote the Bible, but since I assume that the majority of the readers here don’t believe that, I will argue without that advantage.

Before I get started, this thread could branch out into a thousand different discussions. Most of them have been discussed here before and will be discussed here again. For the purpose of this thread please respond only to the general premise of the thread or to the specific reasons why God is the One true God. Do not post here to state your opinion on whether the original premise is true or not. This is not a poll. Argue for or against any reasoning presented here, but try your best to stay on topic (even though this is the off-topic forum. ) This is not a creation versus evolution debate, nor is it a debate about the trinity, whether the Bible is true or even the teachings of your religion of choice. This is a “battle royal” of my god versus your god.

When you post, please first identify who your god is. “None” or “me” is perfectly acceptable. Don’t try to defend your specific religious beliefs. This is not an argument about religion per se. Every religion has a god. Identify your god and defend him/her/it and feel free to attack my God at the same time. I am confident that my God will still be standing at the end of this debate. That said, while my God is the greatest, I am still only His student. I will do my best to answer your arguments and questions, but that is the best I can do. Despite my limitations, I feel I can provide a decent defence.

My god is ELOHIM, the God of the Bible claimed by Christianity and Judaism.

ELOHIM is the One True God because:

- Only the God of the Bible provides what I consider satisfactory answers to the most basic questions in life: “Who am I?” “How did I get here?” “Where did all of this come from?” and “Who am I ultimately responsible to?” Even if you disagree that you, and everything else in the universe are the creation of God, you must admit that the existence of ELOHIM provides a satisfactory answer to these questions. John 1:3 says, “All things were made by Him (ELOHIM), and without Him nothing was made that was made.” That is a radical claim. many similar claims are made throughout the Bible to insist that ELOHIM claims responsibility for the existence of all that there is. I can’t prove that ELOHIM created everything. I believe it, but science, nor I can prove it. My point is not to prove that ELOHIM created everything, but it is to say that if ELOHIM did create everything that all four of those big questions are answered.
“Who am I?” - I am part of the creation of God.
“How did I get here?” - God created me.
“Where did all of this come from?” - God created it.
“Who am I ultimately responsible to?” - God (ELOHIM)

Can your god satisfactorily answer all four of these questions?

- Only the God of the Bible provides what I consider satisfactory answers to some very difficult questions: “What is right?”, “What is wrong?”, “Why am I concerned with right and wrong?” While the biblical answers to these questions are as follows: 1. Right is that which is in agreement with the character and words of God. 2. Wrong is anything in opposition to the character and words of God. 3. I am concerned with right and wrong because God is concerned with them and I am created in the image (likeness) of God. James 3:9 “With [the tongue] we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men who have been made in the likeness of God.” Again, I am not arguing what is right or wrong here; only that ELOHIM claims to have made us in His image. This makes sense if ELOHIM is the true God.

Does your God explain why there is right and wrong and why we are concerned with it?

- Everybody, everywhere on Earth is born with a conscience. Where does conscience come from? Why do I have one? What is its purpose? The God of the Bible explains where conscience comes from. “And the serpent said unto the woman, You shall not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit of it, and ate it, and gave it also to her husband with her; and he ate it. And the eyes of them both were opened” - Genesis 3:4-7. We see here why we have a conscience; because the first humans disobeyed God. Thus perfectly good people now knew evil. Since we are their descendents we share both their goodness (the way we were created) and their evil nature.We also know the purpose, to show us good from evil. The fact that we have a conscience indicates that there must be a reality outside of ourselves that is able to communicate with us. The fact that the Bible explains where conscience comes from convinces me that ELOHIM is the One true God, since it makes sense that a God who is like us would want to communicate with us (It says that He communicated with Adam and Eve) even though we may not want to communicate with Him. It does not surprise me that He would choose to communicate with us in a way that would attempt to make us adhere to His authority, since He claims to be the ultimate source of authority as our creator. This all could be just a very interesting story, but the fact that it makes some sense and it also agrees with the character of a God who created us, convinces me that this is not just a man-made story.

Does your god explain where conscience comes from and what it is?

- All people everywhere share certain core values or beliefs. They believe that all people have rights. Some use their power to trample the rights of others and in doing so assert some rights over other rights. These rights involve ownership. We agree that we have the right to claim dominion (sovereignty, authority) over that which: we are given (by one with authority to give it), we start, we discover, or we create. We agree however, that we are only able to maintain our dominion over something under the following conditions: We are strong enough to prevent anyone from taking it away from us; We don’t abandon it.; Finally (and this one is tricky) We are good to our dominion so that no one can take it away from us on moral grounds. In other words, that we deserve to have the authority. This holds true whether we’re talking about posessions, or power of any kind. On all counts the God of the Bible has every right to have dominion over us. Since He created us, we are His as we had no previous master. As the author of the universe He started everything and as the creator he knew every part of His creation before anyone else could discover it. Furthermore, God claims to be all-powerful. Mark 10:27 “And Jesus, looking upon them said, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.” Therefore none are able to take His authority away. God is everywhere and is eternal so He will never abandon His dominion as stated in Psalm 90:2 “From everlasting to everlasting, you are God.” and Psalm 139:7-10 “Where can I go from Your Spirit? or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend up into heaven, You are there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there shall Your hand lead me, and Your right hand shall hold me.” Finally, God deserves to have dominion over us since He claims to provide for us (there is enough food, raw materials, warmth, etc. for everyone - including plants and animals), He claims to love us (He provided a solution to our broken relationship with Him in Jesus Christ and offers eternity in heaven with Him to anyone who accepts His gift of salvation), He is merciful to us (He doesn’t usually wipe us out when we rebel against Him - though He could), He promises to deal with us justly (even though He explains that much of this apparent imbalance will be made up for after death) and finally He doesn’t break His own laws (since He has the authority to set the laws as the creator). Every one of these points can be argued. However, ELOHIM actually claims to have authority over us and He takes the time to make sure we know why He has dominion over us. Again, I can’t prove this, but it makes sense.

Does your god make the claim to have authority over your life and then back up the reasons why?

 

[Master of Ceremonies]

- Only the God of the Bible explains why humans can reason. We have capabilities far beyond any animal, yet there are animals with far greater abilities and strengths than ours in every other aspect. Why, if we have evolved so highly as to be so advanced to other life forms don’t we have the best eyesight, the keenest sense of smell or the strength of an ant? Why don’t we have radar like a bat or sonar like an orca which are way more advanced than we have even been able to mimic? If we are just animals then why do only humans create music and art? Why do only humans seem to differ in points of view? The God of the Bible says that He created us to be able to communicate with Him. He says He has given us special abilities. He points out that we are not better (stronger, faster, etc.) than the animals, only that we are more precious than they are. Luke 12:7 “You are of more value than many sparrows.” Many religious leaders worshipped as gods have imparted great wisdom. But none of them that I know of claim to have given man the ability to reason. Nor has any of them answered these questions. To me, the one who gives us reason is greater than the one who is merely able to reason.

Does your god claim to be the source of reason? Does your god explain why we seem to have evolved in some ways and yet devolved in other ways?

- Finally, only the God of the Bible claims and proved He has power over death. All other gods are either dead, never lived in the first place, or definitely will die. Only ELOHIM, through Jesus Christ, predicted His own death and resurrection and carried it out. I invite you to argue this point because I’m ready for you. The fact of both the literal death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is proven in many sources beside the Bible. Over 500 witnesses testified to the resurrected Christ’s return to the sky. The God of the Bible cannot be destroyed. I cannot explain how ELOHIM took the form of a human. I know how the Bible says it happened, but I can’t explain it. However, I can’t deny it because it is historical fact. It is also historical fact (outside the Bible) that Jesus Christ raised other people from the dead. I can choose to accept the facts or reject them. In this case I choose to accept them.

Your god is either dead already, soon to die or never lived. My God is alive and well keeping everything going and giving salvation to any who choose to end their rebellion against Him.

Most of my arguments have been based on outrageous statements from the Bible. You don't have to believe that any of them are true. However, consider how not only each one individually, but all of them as a whole make sense. ELOHIM is the One True God. I invite you to argue otherwise.

"Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O you transgressors. Remember the former things of old, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do whatever I please." - Isaiah 46:8-10

P.S. BTW, if the God of the Bible isn’t really the True God, then why do we get so much satisfaction from using the name of Jesus Christ in a derogatory way. Wouldn’t it make sense if He was the ultimate authority in our lives - and we all knew it down deep within us - to show the ultimate rebellion by cursing His name instead of the name of your god? Curiously, I’m pretty sure that even people in countries that are not “Christian” curse the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Master of Ceremonies]

I know that what I have written above will upset some (maybe a lot) of you. Please know that I did not do this for that purpose. Some of you may even want to verbally beat me up. If you do, please do it by e-mail. I'll read it. I may even respond to it.

Thanks.

Emcee

 

[Ashoka]

----------------------------------
My point is not to prove that ELOHIM created everything, but it is to say that if ELOHIM did create everything that all four of those big questions are answered.
“Who am I?” - I am part of the creation of God.
“How did I get here?” - God created me.
“Where did all of this come from?” - God created it.
“Who am I ultimately responsible to?” - God (ELOHIM)

Can your god satisfactorily answer all four of these questions?
--------------------------------

My post in the "Falwell, et al" section might interest (or irritate) you, but is germain to this thread.

If I may offer a different spin on this question - just as food for thought.

As you eloquently stated in your post, there are questions everyone must answer in their lives, or live that empty type of unexamined life so many seem to live. The Buddhist tradition tells a story about how the historic Buddha, Sidhartha Guatama, who was a teacher in India around 500 BC, taught a type of moral philosophy. He spoke a lot about compassion for others, working on eliminating our own greedy and self-centered views, and being responsible for our own behavior. He purposely did not touch on the 'great questions.'

One student came to him and said "Why should I bother to listen to you? You aren't a god, or claiming to be a god's messenger. Answer these questions - How did I get here, Who created this world, etc. - or I refuse to follow anything you say."

Buddha replied, "You need to do what you feel best. However, to me you sound like someone who is caught in a house on fire. A passerby offers to help you escape, but you say 'NO - I will not leave until I know who started this fire, what room it started in, how long it has been burning, etc.' You know what you need to do - escape the flames. But you are so focused on these questions, you are incapable of acting."

So.. you defined the discussion points for this thread... I may have gone outside of them some..sorry (sincerely - it is good to start a thread with some intent as to *why* the discussion should go forward!!!) To try to get back on track - - My God is undefinable - - and I do not feel "God" is obligated to provide me with answers to the great questions or even the small ones - I have faith that I have been given the tools I need (reason, logic, "spiritual feeling", etc.) to work through the 'great questions' and small ones. My growth is dependent upon me using those 'god-given' tools to work out the answers for myself, and to then act on that. It's nice to have good moral 'lists' to follow, but what good if you don't try to actually follow them?

In summary - the questions may be academic *if* they do not ultimately lead us to changing our lives, and the lives of those around us, for the better.


In Peace -

Ashoka

 

[allan]

First, your statement throughout that "it makes sense [to you]", therefore it MUST be true is fallacious logic, hardly objective reasoning.

Many religions and spiritual traditions have creation myths, all which "make sense" to those who believe them. Does it make them all true? YES, it could, in different ways of very limited human understanding. If the universe started with "the big bang", and the earth started as a condensing ball of hot gas around our young sun, how could peoples of ancient understanding comprehend such events? Rather, creation myths are ALLEGORICAL, designed to explain the (back then) unexplainable, and to perhaps give some moral insight into the "whys" of our existance. Creation myths are full of symbolism--and it is possible that these could ALL be divinely inspired, only interpreted by different "ears"--to approximate their limited understanding of God.

My God? Well, He's your God, and also the God of all other religions. I believe they are the same one, only interpreted imperfectly, and differently, by each person on earth. God is SO advanced and complex beyond our feeble understanding that the EXACT nature of Him is irrelevant, it is what we do with our (VERY) limited knowledge that is important, IMHO....

Also, just because some things in scripture could approximate (but not fully realize) an understanding of God, does not mean that ALL scripture must have that same understanding. Indeed, the part of the Bible about eating shellfish and pork was a cultural inclusion, perhaps derived from the fact that methods were not known to prepare and cook them properly to avoid the parasites these animals often contain--and the Jewish people probably learned this from bad experience long ago, and that knowledge was passed genetically as an "instinct". Other cultures, perhaps either knowing different ways of preparation, or having genetic traits to minimize the effects of such parasites, DID eat pork and shellfish and were fine, hence had no such inhibitions. Wearing garments of mixed cloth? That HAS to be a mere cultural convention as well.... Prohibitions against homosexuality or masturbation could be said to be the same.

Men (who wrote the Bible based upon a "sixth" sense of God's presence) could likely very easily confuse their own cultural conventions with "divine law", assuming that they all came from the same universal source. OR they could intentionally confuse the two, to make themselves and their culture seem superior to others', and perhaps even to rally themselves against the Canaanites, whose land they were about to retake (the Torah was written in the years leading to this). This is VERY definitely a human trait everywhere, isn't it?

I could go on and on about this, but my conception of God goes beyond cultural differences, and such a God would not "speak to" only one group of people on earth, but on all--only different peoples have interpreted His "words" (thoughts put in their head) differently. As is your interpretation of God, mine too is based on faith--neither can be proven directly or even indirectly. Only I believe mine has more "logic" (as far as such things can be remotely "logical"), because a Being like God would not limit Himself to one human group over another. Our ultimate "test" from God, I believe, is whether we can in fact put aside our different interpretations of Him and live and learn from each other peacefully--and so far we seem to have been failing that test....

Can anyone be so arrogant to claim that his (or his culture's) interpretation of God is any better than anyone else's? A Being Who is really beyond our complete understanding? That only serves to bring God to a "human" level--and degrades Him in the process. I'll ignore your feeble attempt to sow unnecessary division in an already tragically divided world. My relation to God is PERSONAL, not subject to any attack by others. It is between me and God. I do not condemn or doubt the validity of YOUR relationship with God, so you shouldn't mine. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" seems to be a universal moral understanding, across ALL faiths, and it applies here as well.

That is what I believe. Deal with it. Argument will change nothing, and is futile. None of us can fully understand such a Being--can you deal with THAT?

 

[scorch]

k, i can't really be bothered reading everything you guys said, but anyway, can i just ask one question?

how the **** did you god get its name ELOHIM?, like can you give a verse that says that?

 

[Magnus]

Hey Thunderfall, where is the sleeping smiley? It is needed here! :frog:

 

[starlifter]

Well, I am very busy with other things at the moment, and cannot make a long post. But really, a short one will do just fine. Christians believe the Holy Bible is the inspired word of God. Unlike most other documents in history and many Religions, the Bible actually does have an unbroken chain of accountability back to the sources, which are cross referenced in many other places. This is in stark contrast to the Mormon "3rd" bible written a couple hundred years ago, for instance.

PS, As an technical, "right brain" type, I can say that no amount of isolated, individual human analysis can deductively prove the Existence of God in closed form. And consider this... assuming for a moment that God "IS", if Jesus physically returned to Earth tomorrow and performed all the miracles in the Bible for all the world to see, spoke with His own lips the answers to a thousand questions... I daresay hundreds of millions, if not billions, would still not believe in Him. The Truth is within.

But be that as it may, in the end what matters is one's belief and Faith. And so my post can be short because John 3:16 pretty much sums it up, at least for me... "For God so loved the World, he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

 

[scorch]

Originally posted by Magnus
Hey Thunderfall, where is the sleeping smiley? It is needed here! :frog:

hit the nail on the head there mate!!!!

 

[starlifter]

Don't forget, Scorch, you made the list. You have a few hours to finish establishing your posting pattern, so your imposter can emulate you and make everyone believe you were not taken away for by the Secret Forces. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5854&pagenumber=2

 

[allan]

"My God is undefinable - - and I do not feel "God" is obligated to provide me with answers to the great questions or even the small ones - I have faith that I have been given the tools I need (reason, logic, "spiritual feeling", etc.) to work through the 'great questions' and small ones. My growth is dependent upon me using those 'god-given' tools to work out the answers for myself, and to then act on that. It's nice to have good moral 'lists' to follow, but what good if you don't try to actually follow them?"

This is actually VERY close to the way I see it. God does not have to answer our questions, He just gives us the tools to figure those out ourselves. Why should we have everything conveniently handed to us? It is the journey that is important, not the destination.... And no one person's enlightenment is more valid than another's. Absent any proof, that is the only conclusion one can logically reach. And the only logical course of action is to allow ALL to share and live out their spirituality PEACEFULLY. Which I believe is the "test" God is presenting us right now. Will we one day pass that test? I hope so!

 

[scorch]

praise the lord and **** like that.

did that just earn me some brownie points?

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Master of Ceremonies

My god is ELOHIM, the God of the Bible claimed by Christianity and Judaism.

Personnaly I don't believe in god, but I have two corrections:
- You can just say "god" instead of "ELOHIM". ELOHIM is Hebrew for god. I can say "The Muslim ELOHIM is Alla", just like you can say "The muslim god is Alla". Elohim can be any god.
- According to judism, no believer should call god "Elohim". They should call him "Elokim" or "Hakadosh Baruch hu" (The holy blessed one).

Anyway, I'm not sure if you mentioned it already. I read English kinda slowly, so I don't think I can finish reading what you wrote there in less then an hour.
:crazyeyes

 

[duke o' york]

MoC, I suggets that you change the title to this thread quite quickly or else AoA will stomp on it. If you read the rules to postings in these forums then it clearly states that you aren't allowed to cause offence to anyone else on any grounds, especially religious. It is an inflammatory title and followers of other religions besides your own are very likely to be offended.

As I understood it, the purpose of your thread is to establish that there is only one god, which is logically true to a certain extent. That is: There can be only one god, if we accept the stipulation usually required of gods that they be almighty and infinite. This does not allow the existence of a second such entity, since the first one would not therefore be almighty. However, the next logical leap taken is the classic and easily dismissed. It is impossible to prove that there is one or any gods. In fact, it is damned hard to prove anything in this world outside of the theoretical - eg since a triangle is defined as having three sides and three internal angles then we can prove that these three internal angles will add up to the number of angles in half a complete circle. Beyond this, very little is certain. As Starlifter said, it comes down to faith alone. If you want to believe that there is a god, then you are very welcome to do whatever you like to worship him. Most modern religions ensure that the worship of their particular version of this supreme being does not infringe on anyone else's rights. Basically, being good is good for everyone, and if you are doing it through the (admittedly selfish) belief that it will bring you closer to god then all well and good. The trouble with religion is that it is easy for the Machiavellian to twist the essentially good message behind it to their own ends and cause more evil than they are preventing. But this is indicative of human interaction and it does not automatically mean that the original religion to which all of these new prejudices have been appended is necessarily a bad thing.

 

[scorch]

hey gman! how the **** do you know all that ****? i used to be christian, which is how i know some of my religious arguement, i just can't be ****ed writing a bunch of **** out. (and reading all that crap), but i might get my olderbrother involved with this, hes hard out christain.

 

[G-Man]

You like to say **** don't ya? Well, I know all that because in Israel we learn about the bible in school (Only in jewish schools, ofcource) even if we don't believe in the religion. After all, the bible is my people's history.

 

[stormerne]

Thanks for the entertainment MC! So marvellously full of generalisations and flawed logic that it would take me days to write about. But I've got better things to do.

I don't have a god. I have lots of gods and goddesses. My experience of your god is that he is a being like one of my deities, no more no less. Except that his personality is such that he encourages monotheism, and I have no love for such silly behaviour.

I speak only from experience, having met your god and having met several of mine. I don't need a holy book to justify things to myself. After all, it's hardly necessary when you can go and ask a god for yourself is it? And why should I place any relevance on a book 'written' by such a god? Using a book written by an entity to justify that entity is hardly objective. It comes down to, "Well he would say that, wouldn't he!" It's perhaps because of this that heathens like me have never had a 'holy book' as such.

I am responsible primarily to myself. That is unless I have negotiated with any of my gods and we have a two-way deal running. Which I have in more than one case. And in those cases I am responsible to them within the scope of that deal. And - here's the thing that surprises some people - they are also responsible to me within the scope of that deal. My gods and goddesses may be more powerful and more aware than me, but they still treat me like an adult, not like a child. I am expected to behave like an adult and anything we have between us is on an adult-to-adult basis. So we treat each other like adults, and this overflows into a morality which determines how I act towards other humans. We have plenty of ancient writings which describe this morality, but these are expressions of that morality and are not definitive or proscriptive of it as a holy book would be.

Hmm... that's more than I intended to write. Must go and get on with reality

 

[floppa21]

Who made me? God. (okay...)
Why am I here? God told me to be. (Okay...)
The bible is like the Lord of the Rings. A fantastical story, but not as enjoyable. The Bible says something so we believe it? When did we become a nation of gerbils? Show me some facts baby!!! I don't take the HOBBIT as a religion, why would I take the Bible that way? I know I know, God told me to... So you say the Christian God is the ONE TRUE GOD? Well would that be the Protestant or the Mennonite God? Or maybe the Baptist or the Lutheran? Yah, !!!
I think Jesse Ventura said it best, "Religion is a crutch for weak-minded people." If you can swallow something without and proof or fact, I say that is a sign of weak-mindedness. And there is no proof, except "The Holy Spirit touched me!!!" or "I felt his presence..." WISHFUL THINKIN PAL. Irrefutable evidence? NONE.
My God? ME. If the Christian idea of God exsists, he is failing like Telefragged did yesterday, or he is the equivalent of a 5 year old. I can only count on myself. Prayers from other people do me NO GOOD. It makes THEM feel better about themselves that they spent THEIR time doing something so SELFLESS and caring for ME. (Need a disgusted wretched gag smilie here...) Prayers, wishful thinkin, one and the same. Prayer in one hand, **** in the other, see which fills up first. I would rather somebody THINK of me or say they care then say their PRAYERS are with me. I am going to lay out a few Aphorisms and quotes. They are in my line of thought, feeling, and belief.

"God cannot exsist without wise men." -Luther
"God can exsist even less without wise men." -Nietzsche
"Do not flatter your benefactor." -Buddha (too bad this isn't used by Christians eh?)

Nietzsche argued that Christianity resolved to find the world bad and ugly, thus MAKING the world bad and ugly.
I guess to sum it up, there is no evidence or reason to throw yourself so whole-heartedly or even half-assed (as most "Christians" do) into this religion. Guess I'm just a non-conformist. My opinion? (Gee, anyone here think I got one?
) Organized religion causes more trouble than good. Look at the attack on us by Laden. Argue that prayer helps, but WHO does it help? The Prayee or the Prayer? Figure things out for yourself, don't be a dog being led around on a leash. Your GOD gave you a brain so use it.

Did this stick to the topic enough? I attacked your God and backed mine a little. Not that mine needs backing. Or that yours needs attacking.

 

[Master of Ceremonies]

From Ashoka:

Buddha replied, "You need to do what you feel best. However, to me you sound like someone who is caught in a house on fire. A passerby offers to help you escape, but you say 'NO - I will not leave until I know who started this fire, what room it started in, how long it has been burning, etc.' You know what you need to do - escape the flames. But you are so focused on these questions, you are incapable of acting."

I would suggest that based on your story, what really has happened is that we have set the house on fire ourselves. We know the perpetrator, what we want to know is who made and gave us the house? Some are content to live in a burning building. Yes we need to be rescued - but not by a fellow arsonist! I want to be rescued by one who can put out the flames and restore the house from the damage.

Really, I think what you are saying is that we shouldn't take these difficult and important questions too seriously. You have given up on finding the right answer so you've settled for accepting any and all answers. Would you do this in any other area of your life? If you did, you would be labeled as a sucker who is easily duped. When it comes to the really important issues in life, nobody should just accept any answer.

From Allen:

Many religions and spiritual traditions have creation myths, all which "make sense" to those who believe them. Does it make them all true? YES, it could, in different ways of very limited human understanding. If the universe started with "the big bang", and the earth started as a condensing ball of hot gas around our young sun, how could peoples of ancient understanding comprehend such events? Rather, creation myths are ALLEGORICAL, designed to explain the (back then) unexplainable, and to perhaps give some moral insight into the "whys" of our existance.

I agree that myths are stories. However, no myth can make sense of virtually everything we experience in this life on earth. Think your myth through. Where does it break down. Most myths break down right away. This is not a myth - it's an explanation. You can take this theory as far as you want and continues to make sense of things in every area of life. You cannot dismiss the God of the Bible as a myth.

My God? Well, He's your God, and also the God of all other religions. I believe they are the same one, only interpreted imperfectly, and differently, by each person on earth.

I'm afraid the God of the Bible doesn't allow you to take this position. Isaiah 45: 5-10 says "I am the LORD; there is no other God. I have prepared you, even though you do not know me, so all the world from east to west will know there is no other God. I am the LORD, and there is no other. I am the one who creates the light and makes the darkness. I am the one who sends good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things. Open up, O heavens, and pour out your righteousness. Let the earth open wide so salvation and righteousness can sprout up together. I, the LORD, created them. Destruction is certain for those who argue with their Creator. Does a clay pot ever argue with its maker? Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying, 'Stop, you are doing it wrong!' Does the pot exclaim, 'How clumsy can you be!' How terrible it would be if a newborn baby said to its father and mother, 'Why was I born? Why did you make me this way?"

Can anyone be so arrogant to claim that his (or his culture's) interpretation of God is any better than anyone else's?

My goal is not to try to interpret anything, rather to present the outrageous statements in the Bible that God makes of Himself. He has the right to interpret Himself.

 

[allan]

"My goal is not to try to interpret anything, rather to present the outrageous statements in the Bible that God makes of Himself."

Uh, God did not write the Bible--men wrote the Bible. That is historic fact.

I will say that men tried to interpret what they think God is about--thoughts entering their head, etc.--but God is beyond words.

Like I said, you can argue and argue until you are blue in the face, but you are not "proving" anything. Nor will you be able to argue MY country away from me, my freedom away from me, or whatever the ulterior motive (no doubt spawned in the Falwell thread, where I'm whooping your ass because you can't effectively respond to my points there) of this incendiary, divisive, and frankly (at this time especially) inappropriate thread.

"Battle Royal" against my personal relationship with God? F*ck you, where do you get the GALL! Worry about YOURSELF, beeyatch....

I know however that you will not quit trying. You fundies NEVER do....