[RD] Why the "It's okay to be white" trolling campaign worked

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Yeah, and I STILL don't know what the alt-right term means because Vox Day does not speak for the Alt-Right but wrote a brief which went viral by design. Thus it is an early significant statement. There is no John Handcock on it ie no co-signers as if it is a manifesto like the Dec of Independence!

Give me a break.

What is it? Are a fan of Richard Spencer or think he's not your version of an ideal neonazi?

Let’s try to keep the discussion amicable. You said just a few hours ago that you didn’t know what the alt right is. That’s fine; and if you want to learn, that’s great. But you can’t then turn around and try to lecture people on it.

People can put out statements of principles, of course, but very often these people speak for few other than themselves, and there is no shortage of such statements that one can peruse.

One thing you said that I agree with is that the alt right is not precisely defined; moreover, it’s not a political party or organization, so anyone can use it to describe their politics or otherwise associate themselves with it. Given that, surely the best way to define whether someone is alt right or not is how they describe themselves.

That said, I think it might be worth making one or two points. I should say that the alt right is, at its core, a movement for white identity politics, for recognizing that white people exist, that white people have collective interests that they should work together to advance and homelands that they should work together to preserve and protect. I’d say that anyone who isn’t explicitly on board with that can’t be called alt right.

Also, if you don’t mind me asking, and to confirm a little theory of mine, how old are you?
 
Venerable. Old enough to have borne witness to actual racism.

Which is why I mock the extreme political correctness that seems detached from being concerned about facts and history instead of emotional polemics.

If black identity politics are fine and encouraged, then it would be hypocritical and outright annoying to whine that "white" people are organizing. I don't know why leftists don't get this.

You haven't said what you believe. I have on several of Vox Day's alt-right list.

Do you think Richard Spencer is right about some point? Why?

I think the idea of race is dumb and not scientific. See this Scientific American article showing race is a social construct, not a scientific.one.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/
"What the study of complete genomes from different parts of the world has shown is that even between Africa and Europe, for example, there is not a single absolute genetic difference, meaning no single variant where all Africans have one variant and all Europeans another one, even when recent migration is disregarded," Pääbo told Live Science. "It is all a question of differences in how frequent different variants are on different continents and in different regions."

Thus Vox Day seems to embrace science then immediately breaks his own argument.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism
This one is the most notorious.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passing_of_the_Great_Race
 
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Val, it amazes me how many people are consciously aware of being triggered and yet not conscious of their role in being triggered, nor conscious of the triggers they trigger with their being triggered.

Where are the real black mages of the Democratic Party, because the NPC(aka nonviable)-class sages are crying out in pain, thinking they are winning the public discourse.
 
Somehow "I am going to try to offend people just to show that they are trying to take offense when none is intended" seems contradictory.
 
Somehow "I am going to try to offend people just to show that they are trying to take offense when none is intended" seems contradictory.
I think it’s more a case of giving the people what they want.
 
I think it’s more a case of giving the people what they want.

What I would want is the head of someone who creates a "trolling campaign" on a pike, but I know that no one is going to give it to me.
 
That's the thing about anonymous image boards, not easy to find the person who starts something. Internet Black Bloc tactics, basically.
 
That said, I think it might be worth making one or two points. I should say that the alt right is, at its core, a movement for white identity politics, for recognizing that white people exist, that white people have collective interests that they should work together to advance and homelands that they should work together to preserve and protect. I’d say that anyone who isn’t explicitly on board with that can’t be called alt right.

Also, if you don’t mind me asking, and to confirm a little theory of mine, how old are you?

What you are suggesting is more akin to White Nationalism, Ethno-Nationalism, White Id-Pol, Isolationism, White Supremacism et cetera. The term "alt right", as coined by Spencer himself, does not describe a single, coherent belief system, but rather a cluster of different converging ideologies.

First off, the alt right finds its niche as a more radical alternative to traditional conservatism. The true roots of the alt right however are decidedly European, it was the Nouvelle Droite and Bloc identitaire in France that served as the biggest inspiration for Spencer. He himself often claims to actively be in contact with the ID movement in Europe. At the center of the ID movement is a core belief of the superiority of European culture, not of the white race. It is therefore cultural supremacism, not white supremacism. The core distinction here is the concept of "Ethnopluralism", the belief of separation not by ones skin color, but by ones 'cultural affiliation'. (Note: These people are as racist as it gets, but they decided to cloak that to avoid persecution). The roots of ethnopluralism are "völkisch", that is to say they are not a direct product of biological racism, but rather a stray bullet of it.

Furthermore, alt right far surpasses the aspects of white Id-Pol that you mention in your post, some other core tenets are a rejection of: Feminism, Liberalism, Marxism, Political Correctness, Migration (unless it's whites migrating elsewhere..), Homosexuality, Transsexuality, "Degeneracy", "Zionism" (most, not all of them, are raging anti-semites), Multiculturalism and so forth.

Nice smug ad hominem at the end of your post by the way, almost went past me. But let's try to keep this discussion amicable and impersonal, right? ;)
 
Venerable. Old enough to have borne witness to actual racism.

Which is why I mock the extreme political correctness that seems detached from being concerned about facts and history instead of emotional polemics.

If black identity politics are fine and encouraged, then it would be hypocritical and outright annoying to whine that "white" people are organizing. I don't know why leftists don't get this.

You haven't said what you believe. I have on several of Vox Day's alt-right list.

Thanks for answering. In the nicest possible way, you post like a boomer! :)

I agree. There are, in my view, two consistent positions: either one rejects identity politics itself; or one accepts that every group can engage in it. Many people, however, take a third position, namely that identity politics is all well and good until white people engage in it.

As for my own view, I consider the alt right to be a mostly American phenomenon with limited relevance to the situation here (I’m English).
 
Venerable. Old enough to have borne witness to actual racism.

I just got a puppy. It is old enough to have borne witness to actual racism, and the consequences. It is idiotic statements like yours here that make the current state of trying to deal with racism so difficult.
 
What you are suggesting is more akin to White Nationalism, Ethno-Nationalism, White Id-Pol, Isolationism, White Supremacism et cetera. The term "alt right", as coined by Spencer himself, does not describe a single, coherent belief system, but rather a cluster of different converging ideologies.

First off, the alt right finds its niche as a more radical alternative to traditional conservatism. The true roots of the alt right however are decidedly European, it was the Nouvelle Droite and Bloc identitaire in France that served as the biggest inspiration for Spencer. He himself often claims to actively be in contact with the ID movement in Europe. At the center of the ID movement is a core belief of the superiority of European culture, not of the white race. It is therefore cultural supremacism, not white supremacism. The core distinction here is the concept of "Ethnopluralism", the belief of separation not by ones skin color, but by ones 'cultural affiliation'. (Note: These people are as racist as it gets, but they decided to cloak that to avoid persecution). The roots of ethnopluralism are "völkisch", that is to say they are not a direct product of biological racism, but rather a stray bullet of it.

Furthermore, alt right far surpasses the aspects of white Id-Pol that you mention in your post, some other core tenets are a rejection of: Feminism, Liberalism, Marxism, Political Correctness, Migration (unless it's whites migrating elsewhere..), Homosexuality, Transsexuality, "Degeneracy", "Zionism" (most, not all of them, are raging anti-semites), Multiculturalism and so forth.

I mentioned the nouvelle droite and its influence on Spencer specifically in another post. I’m familiar with the Identitarian movement, and am in touch with some people in Génération Identitaire. But I don’t think one can say that the alt right is just a nouvelle droite transatlantique, since it’s very American in its makeup and, obviously, its influences.

To consider your list of things the alt right rejects:

Feminism – Yes, but so do plenty of others. And alt-feminism is kind of becoming a thing, too.

Liberalism – As above, though of course some argue that liberal politics and ideas are only possible in white societies.

Marxism – Most people reject Marxism.

Political Correctness – Yes, but so do plenty of others, perhaps a majority.

Migration – Yes, but most Europeans are and always have been against mass migration.

Homosexuality – Debatable, considering that the alt-right has some prominent out and proud homosexuals (Greg Johnson, etc.).

Transsexuality – Yes, but so do plenty of others.

Degeneracy – This seem to be used mostly as an insult when disagreeing and means whatever the speaker wants it to; it’s the alt right’s ‘racism’, if you will.

Zionism – Very debatable; indeed, many people in the alt right see Israel as a model for the kind of ethnostate they want.

Multiculturalism – Yes, but so do plenty of others, perhaps a majority.

I was looking at what sets the alt right apart, so there seemed little point in mentioning things that people of diverse political persuasions, or indeed the majority of people, reject. Someone could reject all the things on your list and not be alt right, in my opinion. White identity politics, on the other hand, is central.
Nice smug ad hominem at the end of your post by the way, almost went past me. But let's try to keep this discussion amicable and impersonal, right? ;)

That’s just your own paranoia I’m afraid.
 
Well, I've told you. But you're welcome to believe what you like. :)

I was just trying to let you know, as an uninvolved observer, how you came across. If you don't care that that is the image you are presenting and think it will make you more credible, feel free to proceed.
 
I just got a puppy. It is old enough to have borne witness to actual racism, and the consequences. It is idiotic statements like yours here that make the current state of trying to deal with racism so difficult.
I'm amused by the minor inconveniences that young people think are racism. Try walking around with brown skin in the sixties by comparison. Try a burning cross in your yard and physical assault and having no authority that gives a crap locally and obfuscation at every turn as law enforcement make up the very harrassers and protect themselves.

What will young people do when actual tragedy in physical and mental and legal and social form descend upon you like a ton of bricks and with no public support save a handful of similarly suffering peers?

Wake up and drink some coffee.

This generation has had so much given to it unselfishly but squandered that good will by being ungrateful and expecting no hardship. Adversity causes personal growth, not shelter.

In those days, employers, teachers, politicians, scientists, practically everyone even actors used racist terms every single day and to your face while Euro-American peers snickered and with no one coming to your defense. It was ubiquitous.

You couldn't watch ten minutes of television without children being indoctrinated to either become bigots or if minorities understand that they were viewed as second class. It was insidious blatant hateful bigotry that was in your face.

What racism are you talking about? Some minor triggering and being tearful that your feelings were hurt because you witness some tangential annoyance. What a flea bite.

As a minority,you walk into a room, and the whole room would stop talking and look at you with hostility as an interloper. And then get no service but wait until everyone else got served to put you in your place as being unwelcome clientele who was disturbing the other guests. And by the way,take that to go and scram, boy. Try explaining that to your children who witnessed and experienced it. Yeah, right. Tell them they can do anything they want after seeing first hand that no they can't.
 
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post about the alt right

I don't disagree with much in this post, really, it is a very solid assessment. Earlier I simply wanted to clarify that the alt right was not one unified movement, nor under one coherent ideology. Our idea of what "they" are I suppose is somewhat similiar, with only one issue where we disagree, that being anti-semitism. The identitary movement and the "establishment" alt-right have done a great job of keeping their antisemitism hidden, they use code words like "financial elite" or "media moguls", or ((((them)))), but to anyone with some cerebral matter left it is obvious what is meant. However in your assertment that many people that identify as alt-right see Israel as a role-model for the perfect ethnostate you are undoubtedly correct. That does not mean that they don't propagate the idea of a Jews acting as a unified entity that controls immigration and spreads "degeneracy". One wonderful example for that is the idea of "cultural marxism", which, seeing as you are very well-informed, I am sure you are familiar with. "cm" is another subtle way of accusing jews to attempt to destroy "western civilization" when in reality Adorno (and others) were actually doing the complete opposite: Calling out capitalism for its destruction of local micro-culture by replacing it with vapid consumerism and thus killing "diversity".
 
I'm amused by the minor inconveniences that young people think are racism. Try walking around with brown skin in the sixties by comparison. Try a burning cross in your yard and physical assault and having no authority that gives a crap locally and obfuscation at every turn as law enforcement make up the very harrassers and protect themselves.

This is also idiotic. For one thing, of course, "minor inconveniences" add up. For another, I don't call the systemic inequalities faced by people of color in the US "minor inconveniences." A black man with a college degree competes for a job on equal terms with a white high school dropout, which is why the black unemployment rate is consistently nearly triple the white unemployment rate. Similarly, black people are far more likely to suffer from all manner of health problems, etc, etc. These inconveniences are certainly not "minor" and it's preposterous and racist to suggest otherwise.

Many people, however, take a third position, namely that identity politics is all well and good until white people engage in it.

Well, probably because whenever white people engage in identity politics they seem to murder millions of people and pillage and enslave entire continents. Of course, this whole discourse is mired in race-essentialist nonsense, but this third position is far more sensible than the idiotic position that all identity politics are somehow the same.
 
I'm amused by the minor inconveniences that young people think are racism.

Just because racism was "worse" and far more obvious back then does not mean it is not an issue now. You seem like a very smart person, so why even make posts like this? Imagine walking up to a gay man living in Jamaica and telling him "500 years ago they would have burned you alive, what're you complaining about?"

This generation has had so much given to it unselfishly but squandered that good will by being ungrateful and expecting no hardship. Adversity causes personal growth, not shelter.

We have indeed been given much, otoh we have been handed a planet that is quickly driving towards ultimate self-destruction, we have been strapped to a rocket whose trajectory is completely unknown, the only thing we do know for a fact is that it will keep accelerating forever until it finally hits-- something. I don't want my kids to live in a world where there is more plastic in the oceans than fish, I don't want them to live in a world where half of Africa is infertile for the next ten thousand years because of aluminum factories, I don't want them to live in a world where all the rivers in India are littered with drugs and every other baby has a deformity, I don't want them to live in a world where the majority of grains, pigs, chickens and cows are extinct, forever, because some other species was easier to grow fat. These are the problems that all those that came before us caused, and we have to deal with it. We have to put on our wetsuit and dive deep into a pool of seething **** with the glimmer of hope being to somehow magically find the drain and plug it.
 
I'm amused by the minor inconveniences that young people think are racism. Try walking around with brown skin in the sixties by comparison. Try a burning cross in your yard and physical assault and having no authority that gives a crap locally and obfuscation at every turn as law enforcement make up the very harrassers and protect themselves.

What will young people do when actual tragedy in physical and mental and legal and social form descend upon you like a ton of bricks and with no public support save a handful of similarly suffering peers?

Wake up and drink some coffee.

This generation has had so much given to it unselfishly but squandered that good will by being ungrateful and expecting no hardship. Adversity causes personal growth, not shelter.

In those days, employers, teachers, politicians, scientists, practically everyone even actors used racist terms every single day and to your face while Euro-American peers snickered and with no one coming to your defense. It was ubiquitous.

First off, I'm likely older than you.

Second off, try living in what was a red line district, which still has the worst schools, still has no public "services" to speak of other than a steady stream of police actions aimed at the residents, and still has incomes far below average for the surrounding area...and having to put up with old men idiotically yammering about the "bad old days."

Shove your coffee in a different orifice than it was designed for.
 
I think a paternalistic "white" person trying to educate a person of color who lived through sixty years of outrageous bigotry is nuts.

I think a very young person of color throwing fuel on the fire by not standing for the national anthem makes minorities the enemy all over again and badly done as if patriotism and color do not mix when people of color have historically volunteered for duty and served and paid the ultimate price.

Taking a colossal dump on the history of fighting bigotry and ignoring that things are 95% better, then shows you are uneducated about history.

Young people are coded in the DNA to be iconoclasts. Nevertheless, it is asinine to destroy the very history of successfully winning against the battle against racism by pretending whatever minor inconveniences you sufferered equal in any way to the horrific injustices and outright barbarism of the past.

For decades, people of color have desperately tried to prove that white and black and yellow and red are not races and it was garbage science. That instead all.people are ethnic
Then we now have scientific dna evidence that race is a social construct.

But no no no. You want to revile white people so much as oppressors that you will take a manure dump on science and valid social theory. So you are regressing to the fifties and toward no purpose but to substitute yourselves as the KKK. As if they were right but aiming the target at the wrong race. How incredibly mind numbing and dumb.

There is NO white race
 
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