Why the naval changes

[Simplicity4]

I think I understand why the naval changes were necessary and why they will make a much better game. In vanilla civ, the AI is not very good at defending ships or embarked units. It also cannot launch an invasion across continents very well.

The changes to the naval game turn the sea into another version of the land. The AI for sea movement becomes pretty much the same as the one for land movement. Embarked units become like settlers or workers. Ranged sea units can be protected by melee sea units. Sea invasions thus become very similar to land invasions except the AI either needs to send lots of melee ships or lots of "workers" along for the ride.

I suspect however that the biggest problem the AI has with sea movement is the high movement rate. The combinations of possible moves explode very quickly. Too bad we can just have a ship "bonus turn" each round and keep their movement rate low. Then the AI would have no problem.

 

[blac]

I do see your point about there being too many possible moves for the AI. I'm not an expert on how AI works but wouldn't it maybe be easier for them to figure out moves since they know where they need to go and there is hardly anything blocking their path?

Your right about sea becoming another version of lands sorta. I think melee naval units will only be in the classical age though, after that I don't think people normally used them.

 

[Simplicity4]

I do see your point about there being too many possible moves for the AI. I'm not an expert on how AI works but wouldn't it maybe be easier for them to figure out moves since they know where they need to go and there is hardly anything blocking their path?

Your right about sea becoming another version of lands sorta. I think melee naval units will only be in the classical age though, after that I don't think people normally used them.

Actually things blocking the path are good for AIs because that reduces the number of places they can go. Learning how to get around stuff is easy because they just try ALL of the combinations and if any work then great, they've done it.

 

[nokmirt]

I think melee naval units will continue on into the Age of Sail. BTW wasn't it stated that embarked units can defend themselves too? Of course escorts will be the best protection. Also, is there a chance that some naval units may be both ranged and melee? I would love to learn more.

 

[Simplicity4]

I think melee naval units will continue on into the Age of Sail. BTW wasn't it stated that embarked units can defend themselves too? Of course escorts will be the best protection. Also, is there a chance that some naval units may be both ranged and melee? I would love to learn more.

Good point. Defensive Embarkation. So then it's even more of a solved problem for the AI.

 

[IcyFrozen]

I'd like to see alot of improvement in regard to naval units. I really feel Civ5s sea-game is vastly inferior to previous Civs. It feels like 5 mins before they shipped the game they were like 'yeah just throw in 4 typical ships, a carrier and let land units become transports'. Blockading should come back. More ship designs for better variation and personally I dont like ground units being able to embark/disembark themselves. There was nothing as rewarding as wiping out an opponents transport fleet before they can launch their invasion.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I'd like to see alot of improvement in regard to naval units. I really feel Civ5s sea-game is vastly inferior to previous Civs. It feels like 5 mins before they shipped the game they were like 'yeah just throw in 4 typical ships, a carrier and let land units become transports'. Blockading should come back. More ship designs for better variation and personally I dont like ground units being able to embark/disembark themselves. There was nothing as rewarding as wiping out an opponents transport fleet before they can launch their invasion.

IMHO no iteration of Civ has ever had a satisfying seagame. I think I built an aircraft carrier in IV once, basically for the novelty of it.

I also don't understand why we bemoan the loss of transport units when there has never ever been a "train" unit to freight your units around on the tracks, or a transport plane to move units between airports.

 

[turingmachine]

I also don't understand why we bemoan the loss of transport units when there has never ever been a "train" unit to freight your units around on the tracks, or a transport plane to move units between airports.

Because the loss of transport units has the potential to trivialize ocean tiles.

 

[Draskar]

error

 

[theadder]

None of the games have been great for it; Civ V seems to have suffered particularly in terms of the AI usage of naval units.

It was plausible to be on the receiving end of an AI naval invasion in Civ IV, for example.

It is harder to code, but not impossible; hopefully they will work something like that into G&K.

 

[Alk3Crimson]

None of the games have been great for it; Civ V seems to have suffered particularly in terms of the AI usage of naval units.

It was plausible to be on the receiving end of an AI naval invasion in Civ IV, for example.

It is harder to code, but not impossible; hopefully they will work something like that into G&K.

"Too hard to code" is a lazy excuse anyway. If they couldn't code it properly, why even include it in the game? I really hope the naval changes make the AI a force to be reckoned with on the high seas. I personally love making navies in the Civ games but when the AI is too stupid to fight you off it just feels lame.

 

[theadder]

"Too hard to code" is a lazy excuse anyway. If they couldn't code it properly, why even include it in the game? I really hope the naval changes make the AI a force to be reckoned with on the high seas. I personally love making navies in the Civ games but when the AI is too stupid to fight you off it just feels lame.

It is a poor excuse, yes. One of my main hopes is that they wouldn't add the ability to capture coastal cities with some [melee] naval units unless they had brought the AI up to the point where it can defend against them.

Hope being the operative word.

 

[Montov]

Good analysis about how naval combat will be closer to land combat, and how it helps the AI. It will be fun, with the diversity it will bring.

 

[Zhahz]

I think naval combat has always been weak in Civ. If it remains weak, this change is moot. If this change somehow gets the AI to have a naval clue, then it'll be a great change.