[WIP] Project Civ: A Quality-Oriented Civ Pack

[janboruta]

Actually, I'm using the map, leaderhead, and dom of Greece for Macedonia. I saw no point in a reissue.

The map is even called MapMacedonia in the files. It clearly marks out Pella and such... It's like they were planning on doing Macedonia, then decided on a panhellenic civ.

It's logical, just wanted to reassure myself. But you haven't answered my question about what other art will be needed and which of those items won't be already covered by other artists, so I might take a shot at them. I will be able to make an icon for Eannatum as soon as Leugi posts his leader screen, and I believe I can use Robbie MacSweeney's concept art for the vulture as base. But what about other civs? I could make maps and icons in advance.

 

[Irkalla]

It's logical, just wanted to reassure myself. But you haven't answered my question about what other art will be needed and which of those items won't be already covered by other artists, so I might take a shot at them. I will be able to make an icon for Eannatum as soon as Leugi posts his leader screen, and I believe I can use Robbie MacSweeney's concept art for the vulture as base. But what about other civs? I could make maps and icons in advance.

Mississippians could use a map. Hittites could use a map pass. Mississippian Falcon warrior and Hittite Three Man Chariot need unit art. Sumerian Vulture needs art as per Robbie Mac's concept... (I hope the I get news on how the 3D Unit model is going soon...)

Athenan Epibata needs unit art, Macedonian Companion Infantry (Sarissophore, Phalangites) needs unit art, Spartan Phalanx needs unit art. War Chief needs unit art.

Leonidas, Pericles, Sitting Bull, Eannatum, and the Hittite leader need icons (There's a bit of controversy in my mind as to who should get it; Suppiluliuma, Muwatallis, or Mursili.) Since there isn't a leaderhead yet for Eannatum or Sitting Bull, those can wait.


Falcon Warrior - largely fictionalised and will need close coordination. Ask away. Again, we find our roots in history, but in no way should we bind ourselves by it.

Companion Infantry - Look for phalangite miniatures. I get a lot of info from the miniature community.

Three Man Chariot - Three guys in a chariot (I can just see the surprised look on your face.) The chariot should be a bit bulkier and look "slower" if you get what I mean. I think they were a bit roomier than their egyptian counterparts (and they might have been driven by two horses?) One man is the driver, one has a bow, and the other is the shield bearer.

Epibata is an ancient marine. Hoplite on a trireme. Make sure his shield's border has a wave pattern, as that says he's a marine.

Spartan Phalanx - I found a nice Hetalia-style drawing on Sparta. It has a perfect Spartan panoply if you ask me.

Bedziecie tworzyli te?

 

[janboruta]

Hittites could use a map
Three Man Chariot

I guess those are needed so the player won't have to have the Wonders DLC.

Spartan Phalanx - I found a nice Hetalia-style drawing on Sparta. It has a perfect Spartan panoply if you ask me.

As much as I despise Hetalia, I need to see that.

Bedziecie tworzyli te?

Oh wow that is one unfortunate translation.

I'll add all of them to my list, but if other artists will want to take a shot at them, they can, to speed things up. First things first, so I'll do Sumer and Spartan art to begin with. Then I'll head towards other Greeks and then to the Hittites. I don't know much about the Mississippians so I'll put them off unless art will be needed soon. I could gather some references for the Plains Indians though.

 

[turingmachine]

I guess those are needed so the player won't have to have the Wonders DLC.

Well, they are including the actual WotAW wonders in BNW. I think because they're giving away the most important part of the DLC for free, it's no longer a big deal to keep the dependency just for the art and it would be all right to include the ripped art in your mod if you wanted (also for Sumer).

 

[sukritact]

I really look forward to seeing what you come up with janboruta! The new icons you posted on DA are amazing!

 

[janboruta]

Well, they are including the actual WotAW wonders in BNW. I think because they're giving away the most important part of the DLC for free, it's no longer a big deal to keep the dependency just for the art and it would be all right to include the ripped art in your mod if you wanted (also for Sumer).

That's my thought as well. Since there already were mods that re-used WotAW art assets, duplicating existing maps and icons is a bit redundant. Especially because the Hittite map was pretty good already.

 

[janboruta]

I'm just gonna leave it here

 

[sukritact]

Truly excellent! Now teach me to draw like that!

 

[Irkalla]

I'd like to announce that we're looking for a Civilopedia writer for this project. Those who would like to try out should write a full frontpage for the Sumerians. For an example of a Pedia Frontpage, see here. Be sure to post your entry here in the thread.

What makes a good frontpage? Some of the best ones, including those by Firaxis themselves, lay everything out on the table while being neither a novel nor a wikipedia article.

Like a novel, they're interesting and capture and maintain the reader's attention. Unlike a novel, they do this with a great deal of brevity. Like a wikipedia article, they tell of most everything that would need to be known. Unlike a wikipedia article, they have flavour and are to the point.

A properly written frontpage consists of the following sections:

• An abbreviated 'History' section, which condenses the entire history of the civilization into one paragraph, having between two and five healthy sentences.
  
  
• A section about climate, terrain, and or geography. This should be no more than two paragraphs, with each paragraph not exceeding the size of a typical history section.
  
  
• A prehistory or origins section, discussing under which circumstances the civilization arose from. If we are unsure of the civilizations prehistory, we might discuss popular theories and arguments without lending credence to one or another.
  
  
• A section discussing the immediate beginnings of the civilization. If we were talking about America, we'd discuss the founding of the colonies and the circumstances leading up to the war for independence, without discussing the war itself.
  
  
• A section discussing the founding and early history of the civilization. Typically this section prepares the reader to read about the leader chosen for the civilization. It should also include the era leading up to the rule of our leader, without directly talking about him. It should mention him. If the civilization is ancient as well as extant, we'd break this up into a few sections. Generally the ascent to regional or world power can be discussed here too. Exercise liberty with this section or sections.
  
  
• A section discussing the leader or the leader's line or caste or race or whatever it may be. We discuss how the leader bumped into the throne, how he ruled, and his exploits. Keep it brief, and be sure to point the reader to the leader's civilopedia section.
  
  
• Depending on how the civilization fared after the leader, we can talk about the history between the leader's death and the fall or present day. This can be divided into a few sections if needed. Exercise liberty.
  
  
• If the civilization is still extant, we can either talk about the civ in the modern day, or do two sections on modern day and the future of the civilization. If the civilization is no longer extant, we discuss the fall of the civilization in one section and give our conclusions drawn from them in the next.
  
  
• Lastly, we cap every frontpage with a 'Factoids' section, containing between two and eight factoids. The factoids should not be universally known, and should generally make the reader say "hmm!" They can be about inventions, achievements, how their culture affects modern day culture, comparisons and contrasts between their culture and ours, how their government doctrines affected the modern world, and just generally interesting tidbits of info. For example:
  • Some Food was a highly prized delicacy in Some Civilization and was kept frozen in Some Mountains for feasts and festivals.
  • The only country in the world that has a Bill of Rights for Cows is Some Civilization.
  • In theory, if not in practice, nudism is legal everywhere throughout Some Civilization.
  • Some Ancient Site in Some Part of Some Civilization was inhabited around a bazillion years ago.
  • Some Civilization invented Wine.
  • Microwave ovens were banned in Some Civilization in Some Year.

 

[Irkalla]

I'm just gonna leave it here

Yep yep. Looks good enough to me.

So with that done, all I'm waiting for is a Leaderhead, Leader Icon, and 3D Unit models. Leaderhead is being worked on by Leugi, I assume Jan will be doing the icon once the LH is finished, and I'm waiting to hear back from bernie about how the 3D Models are going. Really close to a front page candidate for Sumer.

I'll work on the code for the Vulture.

Oh, and here's the new unitflag for them.

 

[Irkalla]

I've been a little busy tonight. Been implementing some latest changes. Vulture's gameplay stuff is still undone. The civilopedia's a bit out of date now, too

 

[mitsho]

So, nice work.

Though the Ziggurat seems crazy powerful. In your screenshot above that would be 10 or 11 (if city tile counts as well) free culture for one city. That is quite a lot with the low culture amounts of vanilla civ (It'd be okay with the raised amounts in the GEM mod I suppose). At the very least make it improved river tiles, best would be to cut the amount in half somehow?

The UA is okay though, starting with Pottery means more of a religion focus sadly. (I'd want Pottery to be split into Pottery and Mysticism). The discount on Great People is okay and flavourful with a large empire. The Vulture seems a bit bland and while okay as a scout and okay at combat, not really exciting... What if:

UA: Free Pottery, +25% on Great People
UU: Vulture, bonus against melee units, can build farms
UB: Ziggurat: Temple giving culture on farms at rivers

Making you go for a Tall Farm&Specialist (+Religion) civ?

Though, interesting and high quality civs so far

 

[Irkalla]

So, nice work.

Though the Ziggurat seems crazy powerful. In your screenshot above that would be 10 or 11 (if city tile counts as well) free culture for one city. That is quite a lot with the low culture amounts of vanilla civ (It'd be okay with the raised amounts in the GEM mod I suppose). At the very least make it improved river tiles, best would be to cut the amount in half somehow?

The UA is okay though, starting with Pottery means more of a religion focus sadly. (I'd want Pottery to be split into Pottery and Mysticism). The discount on Great People is okay and flavourful with a large empire. The Vulture seems a bit bland and while okay as a scout and okay at combat, not really exciting... What if:

UA: Free Pottery, +25% on Great People
UU: Vulture, bonus against melee units, can build farms
UB: Ziggurat: Temple giving culture on farms at rivers

Making you go for a Tall Farm&Specialist (+Religion) civ?

Though, interesting and high quality civs so far

It's worth noting that a city can't produce more culture than it has citizens this way. Every tile will have to be worked to reap the full benefits.

The UA has been changed from +25% on great people to free gardens in cities next to river or lake. The +25% great people was really overpowered. Now there's strategy to it.

Vulture has bonus against Melee units and will be able to move along rivers using 1 move regardless of the terrain.

Not sure if I can do the proposed ziggurat change.

 

[Irkalla]

So, I've been brainstorming about the Sioux. Then I realised I had forgotten a very important aspect of a civilization in the game.

Cities.


So as of right now, I'm having an emergency brainstorm of cities. I think I'm going to go by population, and include cities within the unrecognized Republic of Lakotah. The places must feature a "native" majority. They must not necessarily be of the seven tribes, though. That said, Here's what I've got right now.

Perhaps we can take the Iroquois approach and use tribe names too?

1. Porcupine, 1062
2. Antelope 862
3. Bullhead 328
4. Eagle Butte 1352
5. Green Grass 35
6. Little Eagle 319
7. Lower Brule 613
8. Oglala 1290
9. Spring Creek 268
10. Two Strike 209
11. Wanblee 725
12. White Horse 276
13. Wounded Knee 382
14. Winnebago 781

Also, I kinda need your input. After a bit of wrestling within my own mind, I've decided to kinda roll the Sioux and Cheyenne together in one way. The Sioux would get the Dog Warrior for their other Unique Unit. This mainly represents the cooperation between the two peoples and the inclusion of Northern Cheyenne lands in the Greater Sioux Nation. This sort of rules out the Cheyenne as their own civilization, though. There was a lot of cooperation, such as during Little Bighorn and such, and the Cheyenne also turned the Sioux into the horse culture they were known for being.

The main points of debate are as follows, in my mind:

1: Can the Cheyenne stand alone?
2: Is this too much like the Native American approach from Civ 4?
3: Does this downplay the Cheyenne?
4: If the Cheyenne did stand alone, what would their stuff be like? We know they'd get the Dog Warrior, but what else?

 

[janboruta]

Cities.

Neighbouring tribes maybe?

 

[mitsho]

Just copy the old list from civ2, it may not be "realistic", but it has a nostalgia factor. I'd also rather you do the Lakota and not the Sioux themselves, it's a bit of a larger umbrella.

As for the Sumerians, free gardens with or without the tech? And still, 11 free culture that gets multiplied is crazy strong (and afte BNW lots of free tourism...). With the farm focus, the Sumerians should get there quite quickly after all. And yeah, the Vulture is kinda bland like that no?

 

[turingmachine]

I think doing the Cheyenne by themselves is a better idea, and actually I'd prefer them over the Sioux. Mixing them also definitely approaches Civ IV Native American Empire in my mind.

Leader: Roman Nose
UA: Council of Forty-Four
UU: Dog Soldier
(Second UU) One of the other warrior societies besides the Dog Soldiers: Swift Fox, Red Shield, Wolf Warrior, Elk Horn Scraper, Contrary Warrior
(or UB) Warrior Lodge (representing the warrior societies) or something invoking the Sun Dance

 

[janboruta]

Which one for the Spartan Hoplite?

Spoiler :

1.


2.


3.


4.


5.

 

[SuperWaffle247]

Regarding the Sioux, I think it'd be acceptable to put in the Dog Soldier in. The historical connection between the Sioux and the Cheyenne should be empasized in Civilopedia text, or even the unit name, though.

 

[Putmalk]

Which one for the Spartan Hoplite?

Spoiler :

1.

This guy. That's a great icon.

But if you could put armor on him, and the helmet down, that would look fantastic.

Just my opinion, though.