[WIP] Project Civ: A Quality-Oriented Civ Pack

[Irkalla]

I was under the impression that the eye-in-hand motif was more specifically Mississippian than the cross in a circle, but I guess either works.



Cholula was an important mesoamerican city, but I wouldn't compare it to Rome, as the Aztecs had a number of historical influences. The Aztecs attributed their civilization to the Toltecs, although they often conflated the archeological Toltec civilization with the Teotihuacan empire. These are usually considered to be the most important precedents to Aztec civilization.

Cholula itself was occupied by a series of different ethnicities, and went through rises and falls in importance through its long history. In general, it was important for administrative and religious reasons.

It seems kind of strange to include a mesoamerican city as a substitute for a north american one... I'd suggest maybe using Chaco Canyon instead.

Everybody and their grandma used eye in hand really. It's about as bad as using a cross to represent a middle ages european civ. I got this logo from a shell pendant.

 

[turingmachine]

I was under the impression that the eye-in-hand motif was more specifically Mississippian than the cross in a circle, but I guess either works.

Cholula was an important mesoamerican city, but I wouldn't compare it to Rome, as the Aztecs had a number of historical influences. The Aztecs attributed their civilization to the Toltecs, although they often conflated the archeological Toltec civilization with the Teotihuacan empire. These are usually considered to be the most important precedents to Aztec civilization.

Cholula itself was occupied by a series of different ethnicities, and went through rises and falls in importance through its long history. In general, it was important for administrative and religious reasons.

It seems kind of strange to include a mesoamerican city as a substitute for a north american one... I'd suggest maybe using Chaco Canyon instead.

Everybody and their grandma used eye in hand really. It's about as bad as using a cross to represent a middle ages european civ. I got this logo from a shell pendant.

Well, the sun cross isn't exactly unique to Mississippi either, so the fact that the eye in hand is widespread is like calling the kettle black. I mean, the Gnostics, the Norse and Celts (actually most of the Indo-Europeans that had an extension of the sun chariot), Wicca, Theosophy, Native Americans (as you pointed out), heck, even Sub-Sahara Africa had it in regions such as Kongo (the yowa). The sun cross is one of the more widespread cultural icons.

 

[Irkalla]

Well, the sun cross isn't exactly unique to Mississippi either, so the fact that the eye in hand is widespread is like calling the kettle black. I mean, the Gnostics, the Norse and Celts (actually most of the Indo-Europeans that had an extension of the sun chariot), Wicca, Theosophy, Native Americans (as you pointed out), heck, even Sub-Sahara Africa had it in regions such as Kongo (the yowa). The sun cross is one of the more widespread cultural icons.

Difference is, most of the ones you listed have a much more suitable logo. Respectively, Not Sure, Triskelion, Endless Knot, Pentacle, not sure, feathers :v, not sure.

Also, hand in eye isn't easy to represent in a two colour system. Also, it could be confused with Jainism.

 

[AessaSH]

Indonesia's up on the Drawing board! Where my Indonesians at?

What are your ideas, community? Ideally, giving embarkation at start, giving a discount on sea unit maintenance, giving bonus defense when embarked, extra sight when embarked, and extra moves when embarked are all out.

Indonesian's here!!
I'm glad you also pick Indonesia as a civ, although I prefer to call it Java/Javanese..
Indonesia as a civ is a bit off to me..

I'm supporting the idea about coastal cities gaining bonus.. This way, the player will be "forced" to settle on the coastal and simulating a Thalassocratic Empire..

My suggestion about Indonesia:

Spoiler :

Leader :
Gajah Mada (He is the one who conquer the whole Indonesian archipelago, creating the golden age.. The Javanese Bismarck)
or Tribhuwana (Hayam Wuruk mother. It was under her leadership that Gajah Mada began to unify the archipelago.. Hayam Wuruk just enjoy the fruit of their efforts)

UB : Candi
Temple replacement (+4 bonus) = +2 Faith, +2 Culture, and +1 Happiness. 1 Maintenance Cost (-1 gold). Has Artist Slot (+1). (Your candi already have +5 bonus. A bit overpowered I think.. How about eliminating Happiness bonus?)
Shrine replacement (+3 bonus) = +1 faith, +1 culture, no maintenance. (This candi is underpowered.. How about adding 1 more culture?)

UU :
Maybe naval units? Javanese Jong, Buginese Pinisi, Malay Lanchara?? (If you use "Indonesia" as a civ, I recommended the UU is from non-Java.. Bcoz, everything else is already from Java.. )
Replacing Galleass.. Can enter ocean? can heal? act as naval catapult or anything else?

UA : "Coastal cities gain 10/15/20% bonus culture" is good..
Or if it too many cultural bonus, maybe you can replace it -if possible- with another bonus like happiness..??

A little trivia..
Your Indonesian symbol actualy is the 4th Surya Majapahit.., Majapahit emblem in their decline..
The one which used by Tribhuwana or Hayam Wuruk is the 2nd Surya Majapahit, the left one in this page..

Btw, my I ask why did you choose blue and green colour?? Is it representing the sea and the forest??

 

[Irkalla]

Indonesian's here!!
I'm glad you also pick Indonesia as a civ, although I prefer to call it Java/Javanese..
Indonesia as a civ is a bit off to me..

I'm supporting the idea about coastal cities gaining bonus.. This way, the player will be "forced" to settle on the coastal and simulating a Thalassocratic Empire..

My suggestion about Indonesia:

Spoiler :

Leader :
Gajah Mada (He is the one who conquer the whole Indonesian archipelago, creating the golden age.. The Javanese Bismarck)
or Tribhuwana (Hayam Wuruk mother. It was under her leadership that Gajah Mada began to unify the archipelago.. Hayam Wuruk just enjoy the fruit of their efforts)

UB : Candi
Temple replacement (+4 bonus) = +2 Faith, +2 Culture, and +1 Happiness. 1 Maintenance Cost (-1 gold). Has Artist Slot (+1). (Your candi already have +5 bonus. A bit overpowered I think.. How about eliminating Happiness bonus?)
Shrine replacement (+3 bonus) = +1 faith, +1 culture, no maintenance. (This candi is underpowered.. How about adding 1 more culture?)

UU :
Maybe naval units? Javanese Jong, Buginese Pinisi, Malay Lanchara?? (If you use "Indonesia" as a civ, I recommended the UU is from non-Java.. Bcoz, everything else is already from Java.. )
Replacing Galleass.. Can enter ocean? can heal? act as naval catapult or anything else?

UA : "Coastal cities gain 10/15/20% bonus culture" is good..
Or if it too many cultural bonus, maybe you can replace it -if possible- with another bonus like happiness..??

A little trivia..
Your Indonesian symbol actualy is the 4th Surya Majapahit.., Majapahit emblem in their decline..
The one which used by Tribhuwana or Hayam Wuruk is the 2nd Surya Majapahit, the left one in this page..

Btw, my I ask why did you choose blue and green colour?? Is it representing the sea and the forest??

I went with Hayam Wuruk because that seems to be the one everyone is familiar with. I'll do a bit of reading up about finding a better leader. I'll generally violate familiarity if the familiar leader is bollocks (Like how I violated it for Sumer. Eannatum's only really known to people that have read about Sumerian history. Whereas Gilgamesh probably never even existed. But if he did, it was before the Sumerian people began to see themselves as one people.)

About Candi, I'm thinking 2 faith, 2 culture, and 1 maintenance. Shrine replacement. Maya's shrine replacement is this strong. For the icon, do you think I should go with the newer kind, or the older style? I think the newer style look cooler, and that the older style are kinda indistinguishable from south east asian stuff.

About the unique unit, I haven't really found anything unique about Indonesian warfare. Anything you can tell me?

About the symbol, I realise that it wasn't the -best- logo I could have went with. I just chose it because it was the most distinctive out of the bunch that I could find. Unless something significant comes along, I'll be sticking with it.

About the colours, no real reason. Anything you would suggest?


By the way, all my icons and stuff are named Majapahit. I just went Indonesia as a broad name to keep folks from getting pissed that their tiny island isn't being represented... No offence meant or anything. Same reason Polynesia is Polynesia or Denmark is Denmark.

 

[Irkalla]

The Drawing Board

[SIZE="+1"]Gran Colombia[/SIZE]
Leader: Bolivar
Unique Item: Not sure yet.
Unique Unit: Llanero - Otherwise OPEN Hills cost 1 movement. "Vuelvan, Carajo!" - Unit has withdrawal chance. Withdrawing gives next attack bonus strength. Upgrades to Cavalry. Replaces Lancer.
Unique Ability: In Amore Patriae - Capturing a city gives 10% bonus culture in the Empire for 1 turn per each citizen remaining after capture. Bonus does not stack, though Duration accumulates (as in golden ages.)

Gran Colombia's on the Drawing Board. Want your input, as usual. Also, should I censor 'Carajo'?

 

[Pouakai]

I like those colours MUCH better. I presume the UA is meaning that it gives 10% for one turn for every citizen (eg. 2 citizens - 2 turns, 5 citizens, 5 turns)?

 

[Irkalla]

New Icon for the Hittites! Having trouble deciding on a colour scheme though. Left is my original colours, middle and right are two new ones I'm playing with.

Here's the source for the logo.

I like those colours MUCH better. I presume the UA is meaning that it gives 10% for one turn for every citizen (eg. 2 citizens - 2 turns, 5 citizens, 5 turns)?

Reworded for clarity.

The Drawing Board

[SIZE="+1"]the Hittites[/SIZE]
Leader: Suppiluliuma
Unique Unit: Three Man Chariot - While slower than its Egyptian counterpart, the Three Man Chariot has a higher ranged and melee defense. Replaces Chariot.
Unique Building: Sphinx Gate - Special Walls that do stuff.
Unique Ability Pieces - Something to do with Iron? Bonus vs. Civs with more wonders than you (lol egypt you're screwed.) Something to do with horses?

Hittites on the drawing board again!

 

[SuperWaffle247]

Re: Gran Colombia - I always envisioned a GG replacement. Not exactly historical, but interesting to me gameplay wise. Alternately I might look for something modern, as 2nd half of the game is lacking in U-things, in my opinion. The Llanero is good, only problem is that lancers are in a really odd place in the game. I like the UA as well.

 

[turingmachine]

New Icon for the Hittites! Having trouble deciding on a colour scheme though. Left is my original colours, middle and right are two new ones I'm playing with.

The one all the way on the right is almost the exact color scheme and logo used by the Hittites in the Firaxis Wonders DLC scenario.

Unlike most scenario civs, it's a unique color scheme not actually used in the main game (which just furthers my theory that the Wonders DLC started as a double civ pack that they just got lazy with and never finished).

 

[AbsintheRed]

Why don't you use the original Firaxis icon for them?

 

[Pouakai]

Because that would require a DLC and limit compatibility

 

[turingmachine]

Because that would require a DLC and limit compatibility

Well, the 2D assets are easily enough to rip and host in your mod files without requiring a DLC dependency. It's really only if you're using any official 3D graphic that you can't really separate them forcing you to use a DLC dependency.

 

[Pouakai]

That's illegal though, you're distributing paid content for free

 

[Irkalla]

Yeah yeah don't make me call the police guys. Hell.

Props to sukritact for contributing this!

 

[turingmachine]

That's illegal though, you're distributing paid content for free

Yeah, but it's sort of to such a small degree that I don't think it really matters (basically just the alpha symbol, really). It's not re-creating the entire scenario or re-creating the primary focus of the DLC (the wonders). Plus, there are a bunch of mods that use minor assets from paid DLC. The Goth mod by Tomatekh and the Visigoth and Frank mods by JFD use leader diplo images (albeit edited on an original background) from the Viking scenario without requiring the dependency (and no one's complained). It's a murky area, but I feel if it's not re-creating the primary features of the DLC no one really cares. (i.e., no one's buying the Wonders DLC just for the Hittite symbol, so it's not affecting sales).

 

[Irkalla]

Yeah, but it's sort of to such a small degree that I don't think it really matters (basically just the alpha symbol, really). It's not re-creating the entire scenario or re-creating the primary focus of the DLC (the wonders). Plus, there are a bunch of mods that use minor assets from paid DLC. The Goth mod by Tomatekh and the Visigoth and Frank mods by JFD use leader diplo images (albeit edited on an original background) from the Viking scenario without requiring the dependency (and no one's complained). It's a murky area, but I feel if it's not re-creating the primary features of the DLC no one really cares. (i.e., no one's buying the Wonders DLC just for the Hittite symbol, so it's not affecting sales).

It's a matter of ethics for me. No letter of the law will change that.

By the way, I chose the Hittites colours based on their Civ 3 colours. Sumer's is based on Civ 4's *******.

I refuse to use the name they did, and I best not catch anyone saying it around here



Also tried out new colour for Majapahit. It just BARELY squeezed between the huns and japan in the 60 luminance rule. Also, on the right, a more tomato red to differentiate from Huns.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Sumer's is based on Civ 4's *******.

I refuse to use the name they did, and I best not catch anyone saying it around here

Hmm, but I'm really not sure
Babylon? Rome? Sumer? Vikings? Heck, even China is close
All used kinda similar colors. Yellow sign on some kind of purpleish background

 

[Genghis.Khan]

Vikings, for sure. Match the letter number and it's stupid because it does not represent any ciilization

 

[turingmachine]

I think he's more referring to the fact that Civ IV called the civ Sumeria instead of the more correct Sumer.