Wolfshade Huge Earth Map

[Wolfshade]

Thank you for reading.

This thread is about the huge Earth map and here I want to ask about corrections, suggestions & impressions of the map I made. It's a draft version - that's why I didn't start a thread into the appropriate section.

It's not a completely new map - once I downloaded & looked at the Guardian's "Napoleonic Wars" scenario, I had a feeling I got a map to rework. So it's an Aeldrik's map (if I'm not mistaken, please, correct me), which was reworked by me.

I would like to introduce some details to prevent questions:
1) the distance between some regions (look at Bosphorus strait) is increased.
In my mod, I use a range artillery (catapults, cannons, etc) with the firing distance = 2. I didn't want units to destroyed from one bank on another, or from one island on another. That's the reason I increased it up to 3 tiles.

2) great rivers.
Once I saw a Mississippi & Amazon rivers made 1 tile wide, I realized this adds a new flavour to the game. So I made 5 greatest rivers the same way -
* Amazon (South America);
* Danube (Europe);
* Mississippi (North America);
* Nile (Africa);
* Yangtze (Asia).
Please, don't ask about the Australia. I thought about it at the moment I finished a list.
I added a "River" overlay on both banks, so any great river can be used for irrigation purposes.

3) regular rivers.
Regular rivers were remade as well. I recognized some of them from the initial map, some were corrected - I based them on the resource maps someone (sorry, I don't remember who it was ) posted here, they were scanned from the Oxford atlas.

4) lakes.
Lakes (like rivers) can be used for irrigation as well (or not?), so there's a "River" overlay on the banks of african lakes. It looks ugly in some cases, but it's functional. I decided to ask about it - should be or shouldn't be?
*Edit: river overlay removed since 0.1b update, irrigation works without it.

5) european region is increased.
One of the problems of the most global maps I downloaded from the database is a small Europe. Of course, real proportions should be saved, but gameplay feature doesn't need to be sacrificed. So I enlarged european region - especially Italy & Greece + increased distances between Mediterranean Sea islands. So the Europe became bigger, and Mid-East region became bigger as well.


Starting from beta maturity, added: 3 pre-placed roads, resources & terrain gfx.


Seems to be enough for a primary info, please, post your feedback! I really want to make the map useful & helpful.

Once again, thank you!


Edit: Version 0.2b posted 2011 DEC 04. Map preview updated, Europe in-game look preview added.


Credits:
Resources: Big Bopper, Casus Belli (some resources taken from their collection), Firaxis team, Kyriakos, Pounder, Spacer One, Vuldacon, Yoda Power.
Terrain: Ares, Kyriakos, Pounder, Rhye, RickFGS, Womok, Xong.

Spoiler :

Please, inform me if there's a resource/terrain gfx made by you and you're not included into the Credits list!

Package info:
a package posted contains a .biq file your_mod.biq & a folder your_mod. To view a map as it was designed, extract downloaded archive into the Scenarios folder.
A folder your_mod contains Art & Text folders:
Art contains
* Civilopedia folder with icons for cutom resources (large & small, of course) I added to the map;
* Terrain folder with custom terrain gfx;
* resources.pcx file.
Text:
* PediaIcons.txt file with custom resources added, the rest is a game original info.

So, that said, you have an empty scenario with map & resources only. The rest will be done by you. Happy modding!

 

[Wolfshade]

(Reserved for the file revision history)

What's new in version 0.2b (uploaded 2011 DEC 04):
- river overlay around lakes removed - irrigation doesn't require it;
- uploaded package info added to the post #1.

Spoiler :

What's new in version 0.1b (uploaded 2011 NOV 28)
Fixes:
- a number of minor changes & fixes (forgotten single tiles, etc);
- Carribean Sea islands and Bosphor strait are fixed (as requested by WWTVICTOR then AnthonyBoscia and finally myself);
- Great Britain contours fixed (requested by AnthonyBoscia).

Possible/known issues:
- Baikal lake position. It doesn't seem to me correct. Will work on it.

New features:
- added 3 pre-placed roads: Appian Way, Silk Road and Trade route from the Varangians to the Greeks;
- resources added (based on the number of map by Marla Singer, Kal-El, Ozymandias, Rhye, Teturkhan, modern resource maps posted in the spring 2011 I still don't know by whom);
- added gfx terrain (a compilation).


What's new in version 0.3a (uploaded 2011 OCT 12)
- St. Lawrence river made with a 1 tile width as requested.

What's new in version 0.2a (uploaded 2011 OCT 11):
- Baltic Sea ocean tiles replaced with sea tiles;
- Greece diminished 6 tiles;
- a tile for Suez added, Sinai peninsula edited;
- rivers in Australia shortened, Victoria desert became bigger;
- river overlay added to the North American lakes to make them suitable for irrigation.

Version 0.1a - initial.

Please, feel free to post now.

 

[Kyriakos]

That is one monstrous Greece

Well, as much as i would like to have that, i think you should diminish its size a bit since it makes the map look strange

 

[Wolfshade]

Kyr, OK, thanks for reply - but Greece is not so small as it always appeared to be, look at the world map.
And, please, don't forget about the gameplay - Greece wasn't a small puny country, it was a set of cities-states and every of them had some additional lands. So there should be at least 2-3 cities, IMO.

Anyway, OK, a useful comment, thank you.

 

[Pounder]

I like the choke point between the Mississippi and Lake Michigan, a city could be placed there and act as a canal.

Good work.

 

[Wolfshade]

The same with the Nile - if settlement on the marsh is forbidden, I left 1 tile to put Alexandria here.

! Suez - one more question. I don't remember the area is "settleable".

Thank you for reply!

 

[Jerry'sGoldfish]

wolfshade, u must be carefull with the inspiration maps u use, cause the type of projections differs...there are many types of maps, ans some of them distort specific areas in order to represent correct the others...

 

[Wolfshade]

The major thing I'm trying to care of is a gameplay. There's nothing terrible if the Greece is too big comparing to its "real" size, for example, but it's bad when map looks brilliant but is not playable.

 

[Yoda Power]

Could you post some screenshots? I'm on a computer without civ.

 

[Wolfshade]

Yes, Yoda, today later or tomorrow, I'm in the same state currently.

(And, BTW, thank you very much for the MEM2. I spent great hours playing it 2 years ago. You see, I still remember and there's a high level of quality helped me to see what kind of things can be done with the Civ3. )

 

[WWTVICTOR]

... ...

I downloaded the map from this page. Unfortunately, I really don't like this map (sorry as you have paid a lot of efforts in it)

The map is a bit...disgusting, something just like "designed for Europeans", if I would like to mention it harsher, it does not make sense as well.
e.g. The Mediterranean region is overexaggerated, particularly unfair to other non-European civs, they squeeze together which they don't deserve to.

Personally, I don't oppose in playing enlarged Europe world maps, but Europeans and N. Americans gain too much advantage in it. I am sure that European and N. American players will be pleased while others will not (even Oceania and Latin America has inaccurate shorelines, the inaccuracy of South East Asia and Carribbean Sea is outrageous, Tibetian mountains contain 2 over 3 of China) (are you a beginner of map making?).

I don't guarantee that this kinds of comments will be welcomed or even accepted, I only express my views as I can, I respect your works and efforts.

 

[Wolfshade]

WWTVICTOR, I'm opened to any kind of criticism, so don't worry about saying some "unplease" things to me. Destructive criticism I'll ignore - constructive one always welcome.

as you have paid a lot of efforts in it

2 months, every evening 3-4 hours - to be correct.

The Mediterranean region is overexaggerated

Yes, it's made intentionally. I don't see how it's possible to develop for Italy on ~7 tiles or Greece on ~4 tiles on other maps I saw. And Italian civ is one of the most important participants in any period scenario. Imagine you would have a "Papal State + Italy" for medieval global scenario - and there's no room for it at all. This is one the things I tried to avoid.

Latin America has inaccurate shorelines, Tibetian mountains contain 2 over 3 of China.

1) These things were "copied" (after issue with the Map Tweaker I re-made map by hand) from the "Napoleonic Wars" map. So this is the issue, it needs to be improved, I agree - but it's not my mistake.
2) I started to re-create this map for myself primarily - and I have 16 playable civs + 2 special minor civs, like the cities-states in Civ5 - I had no need to get big room for Indonesia/Oceania/Mesoamerican civs. Yes, I met my own requirements - but why should I hide it from others? So I posted it and asked for comments.

(are you a beginner of map making?)

Yes, it's a 1st map I've made in Civ3 Editor in my life.

the inaccuracy of South East Asia and Carribbean Sea is outrageous

In my mod, I use a range artillery (catapults, cannons, etc) with the firing distance = 2. I didn't want units to destroyed from one bank on another, or from one island on another. That's the reason I increased it up to 3 tiles.

I don't guarantee that this kinds of comments will be welcomed or even accepted

I do guarantee comments are welcomed, don't guarantee they'll be accepted. I don't like the idea to change things just to look beautiful/correct losing the gameplay objectives.

 

[Bengal Tiger]

Personally I think it's pretty good, from a gameplay prospective, although I don't usually play on extremely large maps. Some of the seas have ocean placed in them, might want to touch that up. The rivers in Australia make the outback far more productive than it actually is, I think they should be removed. Also, the St. Lawrence river could also be a tile-wide coast to allow exploring European vessels to reach the Great lakes, as well as making canals more useful.

 

[Ozymandias]

When you get to the point of adding resources, I humbly suggest you glance at MY MOD OF TET'S MAP as I put quite a bit of effort into accurate resource placement.

Best,

Oz

 

[Wolfshade]

Oz, thank you very much for the reference! It'll be helpful, undoubted - even if I already did this for the "broken" map. One more reference is always better than the single one.

Future plans:
I'll make resources placement a bit later, when map will receive a positive critical reviews & mark. It's not that I'm trying to please myself with positive replies - it's I'm trying to make a map useful not only for me personally but for other people as well.

Current summary:
Please, see post #1 for updated map + screenshot & post #2 for a list of fixes. As far as you may see, I accepted all concrete issues and I hope fixes made correctly.

For other types of criticism:
I checked other maps I downloaded from the DB a while ago.
Apennine peninsula is 24 tiles size (city of the size 2 is a 21 tiles square, for reference), so there may be built max 3-4 cities. If more - an area will be overcrowded, with the low productivity of each city.
Peloponnese peninsula square = 4-6 tiles, there's no place even for Athens & Sparta - only for one of them. So it's not a map for euro & american civers, it's a map for an adequate playability.
Meso & South Americas are small comparing to the North America, I do agree. But there's enough space for Aztec, Maya & Inca - and North America should be big enough as well to "contain" a powerful USA. If it's necessary to place all MesoAmer cultures - yes, this map is small enough. But it's global, it's designed not for MesoAmerican civs only, you know.
About Carribean & Oceanian islands. Can you imagine a medieval mortar which bombards from island to island? I can not, since it's impossible - and I want to use bombard in my mod as a range artillery, and the range should be > than crossbowman range (>1). That's the reason for islands to be far from each other than on the real map.

A question about Sent Lawrence river:
I didn't know there's a fact of the ocean fleet went through it to the great lakes. Was it? My bad?


Once again, thank you for replies & constructive criticism! Version 0.2a is up & can be discussed further.

 

[Bengal Tiger]

Many European Explorers, such as Samuel de Champlain, sailed down the St. Lawrence and colonized areas that are now Canada and the United States, and founding cities like Quebec. This could be represented by allowing ships to travel down to build cities. During the War of 1812, several naval battles took place on the Lakes for supremacy over the supply route through which Britain could send in reinforcements.

 

[Wolfshade]

Tiger, it will be done tomorrow. Thank you for the info. All these small things make gameplay newer & more interesting. So sincerely thank you!

 

[JSnider]

Looks very good so far and I like how did europe myself as it somewhat compensates for effect of area over time versus it's size. Looking fwd to next go at this.

 

[Wolfshade]

JSnider, thank you for review, an updated version with the St Lawrence river 1 tile wide will be posted today later. If this version will receive good review - I'll start with resources placement.

Oz, thank you very much for the TET + Oz map. I compared my old & broken map with yours suggested, and, you know, to my pleasure, I found our "resource maps" ARE very close. So your reference became much more valuable than I expected it to be (with no diminishing its importance).

 

[Wolfshade]

Version 0.3a is up.

As requested by the Bengal Tiger, St. Lawrence river is 1 tile of width now. You can enter only Ontario with ships from the Atlantic Ocean, + I left a choke points for cities to go into the rest. Having cities in required positions, you can go from St. Lawrence river into the Mississippi river and, further, into the Carribean sea.
Tiger, please, confirm I understood your idea correctly, and thank you for improvement ideas!

Please, comment this version - I want a map to be really useful. After positive responses I'll start with adding resources. I want to announce 1 thing about it - I use almost all resources from C3C with some additions, so I'll provide not only the map itself but the additional gfx as well, if it's allowed (a question to moderators) for the maps.