Women, all crazy?

[Birdjaguar]

Women are all crazy and I'll bet; Cuivienen, Marla, Chieftess, Mathilda, and Feline D' are among the craziest women on the planet, so naturally they will inject the most valuable points of discussion.

Ahhh, the perfect light touch to win the hand of a fair lady.

 

[AceChilla]

Before I know it, we were never dating, she never was interested in me, and I'm delusional. So I'm like, what do you want here? She says she wants to get to know me, because she really likes me.....wtf?

So after she's been mad at you for not making "big moves" she is still giving you signals that she really likes you. She's giving you another bait. Now Bite!

 

[Renata]

Warning: No punches pulled in the following. You asked for advice; you got it.

I diagnose a bad case of 'nice guy' syndrome.

The reason I say this is this:

So today - she's wondering why I haven't been making the big moves yet. She's a single mom and has been very clear she wants to go slow - so only knowing her 2 weeks and seeing her a few times, no big deal. Out of nowhere - I can do no right. After much debate, with myself referring to that which I posted above, I finally had enough and said, fine, we can just be friends (we have insane amounts of things in common, it would be foolish not to try). Now she really flips out. Before I know it, we were never dating, she never was interested in me, and I'm delusional. So I'm like, what do you want here? She says she wants to get to know me, because she really likes me.....wtf?

This screams insecurity to me. You held off from too much physicality thinking she wanted to go slow? Fine. Really. You haven't been together for very long; there's no need to get into big discussions about the physical aspect within the first two weeks. But when she asks why you haven't been more aggressive in making a move, the logical response is to say, "Well dang, is that what you want? Why didn't you tell me sooner?" and then dance her off to bed. (Worst that could happen is that she was only trying to start a discussion about attitudes toward sex, and you wind up having a chit-chat on the couch instead. Best that could happen, you get laid.) The logical response is *not* to react so defensively that you start an argument and finally retreat to the "let's just be friends" position.

No wonder the poor woman's confused.

Renata

 

[Renata]

Women ARE crazy.

I feel you pain, man, I have lived things like yours in the past.

As for now, there is two hints I've learned :
- Women expect you to understand what's happening into her head, and to predict what they want. They'll NEVER be clear about it. You have to guess, or it's your fault for being a heartless egoistical bastard that doesn't care about anyone and doesn't listen to them.
Women don't SAY, they HINT.

This can be true, some of the time, with some women. But men can be just as bad.

- Never pay attention to anything a woman SAY she wishes. Usually, what she REALLY wish is the exact opposite. I've had the sad proof many, many, many times, that people trying to respect women and their wishes, ends up shafted, while the ones who simply do what they want and doesn't care about what women say, usually ends up successfull. Probably that women do like to have a man in control, and him doing things his way whatever they say to him is a good "I'm in control" display...

This is garbage, and is the kind of thinking that leads to date rape and the utter destroying of a woman's trust.

In this case, it seems that you should probably have simply taken the matter in your own hand and kissed her at one time or another, and more than anything NOT bother with the "I want to go slow" thing.

He said he did kiss her, and there's nothing wrong with going slow if it makes one or both parties more comfortable. His mistake was overreacting to an innocent question.

Renata

 

[Akka]

This can be true, some of the time, with some women. But men can be just as bad.

Not in such a way. Both sexes have their own ways of driving the other mad.
Women's speciality is to never be clear about anything, and then blame the man for not getting it clearly.

This is garbage, and is the kind of thinking that leads to date rape and the utter destroying of a woman's trust.

Yes. That's why I said a bit later to not take it caricaturaly.
So I repeat : this is to be restricted to what women says about their preferences.
Now, I would be very happy if it was wrong (because NOT taking into accound what others tell me is something I've a lot of trouble to do, especially when I've sweet feelings toward the said other), but I'm afraid that it's what I've witnessed countless times.

He said he did kiss her, and there's nothing wrong with going slow if it makes one or both parties more comfortable. His mistake was overreacting to an innocent question.

Renata

There's nothing wrong with going slow, of course.
I'm just warning him that when a woman says something about how she would like the relationship be going, it's usually garbage and he should just try to :
- Make the relationship go the way he wants.
- Try to feel how the woman is reacting, and adapt his behaviour accordingly.

BUT, and it's the most important point : do not bother about what she says. Bother about HOW she says it. Women tends to communicate not with the meaning of the spoken words, but with the tone, and the attitude, and so on.
Try to decypher the whole rather than just "read the text".
Yes it's annoying and irritating and uselessly obscure, but hey, it's how women work

 

[Renata]

Sorry, it's still garbage. If a woman says, "I don't want to go any farther," I don't care what 'her eyes are telling me' or any such rationalization, you don't go any farther. End of story. If a woman is being stubborn about communicating things clearly, you push harder on that front -- you don't just assume you know what she really means.

And ... you're still wrong in your generalizations about how men and women work. I can't stand stereotyping.

Renata

 

[sabo]

No offense to you sourboy but when someone tells that every relationship they have gotten into turns out the same I have to tell them that maybe it's "them" and the people they are picking out. Try someone totally different next time, I did and it worked for me.
I was in the same boat as you a few years ago, they all turned out the same until I tried something different.

 

[Akka]

Sorry, it's still garbage. If a woman says, "I don't want to go any farther," I don't care what 'her eyes are telling me' or any such rationalization, you don't go any farther. End of story.

You certainly can't try to do her if she say that. You can, though, try a kiss (just don't complain if you take a slap).
Sorry to break your illusion, it DOES work. Often.

If a woman is being stubborn about communicating things clearly, you push harder on that front -- you don't just assume you know what she really means.

You don't assume you KNOW what she really wants.
You simply try to decypher, and throw guesses, and act according to these guesses.
If we could KNOW what women think, there wouldn't be thousands-years old jokes about how women are impossible to understand and crazy.
That's precisely the problem : men never KNOW, and women don't help them to know.

[rant]If women were able to be clear and truthful about what they wish, we wouldn't be forced to try to guess. Trust me, it would please us even much more. It's incredibly tiring and irritating to spend huge amount of time to try to understand someone who do her best to not be understood and then blame you for not trying to understand her.[/rant]

And ... you're still wrong in your generalizations about how men and women work. I can't stand stereotyping.

Renata

Well, when you talk about large population, you can only talk about generalizations. It may hurt the PC side of people, but tendencies do exist.
Recognizing the existence of tendencies and statistical observations don't imply that you deny the individualism of a person. It's totally possible to keep both scales in mind.

 

[Akka]

No offense to you sourboy but when someone tells that every relationship they have gotten into turns out the same I have to tell them that maybe it's "them" and the people they are picking out. Try someone totally different next time, I did and it worked for me.
I was in the same boat as you a few years ago, they all turned out the same.

Gosh, you can't know how such a thing would please me ^^

Sadly, most of my experiences don't come from me, but from people I know

I'm hopeful that it's only because all these tens of persons where all the same, but I'm afraid that it's just a bit stretched.
As for the advices I give, they come from these friends who actually managed to get a stable and long-term relationship.

Trust me, I would really like to be proven wrong. I'm kind of romantic, and the result of what I've analyzed so far tends to depress me more than anything.

 

[sabo]

Sadly, most of my experiences don't come from me, but from people I know

Didn't you just prove my point?

 

[The Yankee]

You are deluded by the idea that a slow start increases chances for a relationship.

I'm not seriously meaning you should have nailed her on the 2nd date (though that would not jeapardise chances), however, not biting when the bait is there isn't advisable.

From what I read, you simply turnt her down!

And yet, they were together after this date. I know how some women can keep things under wraps and spring it out when they want to trample the male, but come on.

Anyway, if he wants to keep things going with her, I think he should just explain himself. Say things about how he really likes her, wants to be with her, wants to keep things going, and then be honest about why he wasn't jumping into bed on the second physical day. If she's still nuts over the whole thing, then it's his call to make. And it would show him how she does react during an argument, if that helps any.

 

[The Yankee]

Women are all crazy and I'll bet; Cuivienen, Marla, Chieftess, Mathilda, and Feline D' are among the craziest women on the planet, so naturally they will inject the most valuable points of discussion.

But that's only because they put up with all of us!

The matter which confuses me most is where she enquires as to why you have not made any big moves, a suggestion that she feels insecure, to which you take a step back ... *scratches brow*

Maybe she is desperate for something. He did say she is a single mother....that can be quite a lonely place for anyone. Especially if there was a particularly harsh way that situation came about. And I'm sure he has his own reasons for not biting to the invite...which is why he should be honest and see what happens from there.

 

[brennan]

To answer the thread title.

Yes.

For a whole load of reasons/experiences.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Am I the only one who believes in romancing & courting? Nail her on the second date? That's how people get divorced after 2 years of marriage... I prefer happily ever after - maybe I live in a dream world?!?

No 'maybe' about it Sir. You are waaaay out there in La-La-Land! For crying out loud, the woman demanded that you sleep with her, and then you just laid there and did nothing?? Hello...This thing on?(taps monitor). Of course she's upset and wants nothing to do with you now. Obviously, she was waiting and waiting and waiting for you to make a move, you did nothing, so she finally insists that you sleep with her...and still you laid there next to her all night and did nothing. Thats very humiliating for a woman, after her experience with you, her self esteem must be zero, thats assuming that she hasnt convinced herself that youre gay yet. Sorry if Im being a little rough on you here, but this is 'tough love'. Snap out of it! (snaps fingers in Sours face)

 

[sourboy]

If I were you i'd wait a couple of days and see what she has to say then. Give time for both of you to do some thinking.

This has been my plan since before I made this thread - I will definately follow up with the results here in a couple days.

No offense to you sourboy but when someone tells that every relationship they have gotten into turns out the same I have to tell them that maybe it's "them" and the people they are picking out. Try someone totally different next time.

She was different! And I was different for her! We are not the normal 'dating type' for either of us, and we hit it off better than normal - so this I agree with to a point. However, the same result ensued.

One thing I should mention is that every married female friend of mine has always told me I'm a great catch, to never change, and that I have what it takes. Every woman I've had this sort of crazy relationship with was one who never had a long term relationship - even this woman I have described here who flat out said "I've never been in love." So maybe it's the women I choose - but maybe it's that I'm choosing one's who are naive. The sad thing is that I'm 28. Most women my age are married - so it could be very plausible to say that the one's that 'are left' are the one's that didn't make the cut. In other words - if you're young - get a woman now! The pickings are slim later on...

Maybe she is desperate for something. He did say she is a single mother....that can be quite a lonely place for anyone. Especially if there was a particularly harsh way that situation came about.

She is the third single mother I have dated - and all (assuming so here, though can't immediately confirm) had alterior motives, and were off the handle when it came to new guys. I understand to a point, but ...

~~~~~

Many have said be more aggressive - fair enough. But when asked not to be, and told that she hates 'games' - isn't that a bit ironic? I should be a player, not a gentlemen, you say? I'll go easy a few days, and if there's any sign at all that she's interested - I will make a move, more aggressively than I have thusfar - as the majority are either right, or if not - I have nothing to lose anyway. I'll post the results in a couple days.

 

[Syterion]

She said she wanted to feel it slow, but she still wants to feel like you are dating. And a women won't feel like she's attracted to you if she KNOWS you won't try anything. From anything I've learned, predictability is bad. If the woman knows there's a possibility of sex that night, then she'll still be dating you. If you don't try anything, nothing will ever happen, and then - you guessed it - you're now awkward friends.

 

[sourboy]

Obviously, she was waiting and waiting and waiting for you to make a move, you did nothing, so she finally insists that you sleep with her...and still you laid there next to her all night and did nothing.

That's not how it happened, but it was an amusing statement. She stressed that things go slow, and each opportunity, I took it one step further (not five steps). A couple dates isn't enough time to round the bases - but, btw, she never asked me to sleep with her. I was being respectful - and played no games, as she asked. Her child is important to her, and I respected both. She appears to have done what she asked me not to do. I mean a couple weeks by phone, a couple nights out - that's pretty quick judgement, no?

 

[brennan]

Never try to predict a woman's behaviour. Never expect them to act in a rational way. Never attempt to determine their thought processes. I refer you to my previous post.

 

[The Yankee]

She is the third single mother I have dated - and all (assuming so here, though can't immediately confirm) had alterior motives, and were off the handle when it came to new guys. I understand to a point, but ...

~~~~~

Many have said be more aggressive - fair enough. But when asked not to be, and told that she hates 'games' - isn't that a bit ironic? I should be a player, not a gentlemen, you say? I'll go easy a few days, and if there's any sign at all that she's interested - I will make a move, more aggressively than I have thusfar - as the majority are either right, or if not - I have nothing to lose anyway. I'll post the results in a couple days.

I can see that. I've also seen some single mothers (at least moreso with mothers than the few single fathers) look upon the opposing sex as an enemy. But I don't think that's the case here....something seems different about it.

Perhaps I'm the only one that doesn't think this is some game like Civilization where the right moves and words and a certain formula win the day. This is more serious than that. Perhaps I think playing a game and saying something, even if it goes against your own feelings, is not the strongest way to build a lasting relationship, should you want one with her anymore. Maybe I am naive to think honesty is the best option. But you should give her a chance to show herself when she sees you as you, and not someone that's merely trying to stay in the running for something. Once you see where that leads, then you can figure out whether there is a future you want.

Or maybe everyone can laugh and disregard what I say.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

That's not how it happened, but it was an amusing statement.

Yeah but what about:

Afterwards, I drove her home, and she expected...not asked...expected me to stay over, and I said 'well I don't live that far away, and I'd rather not sleep on the couch' - thinking, maybe it's too early to do that - I really like her, and I don't want to screw things up - it is only the second date. She said I would sleep in her bed with her, and whatever...

and also:

Okay, so Saturday, we get together again - spent the night together - this time we didn't sleep (she worked the morning shift - waitress), though nothing happened.

She stressed that things go slow, and each opportunity, I took it one step further (not five steps). A couple dates isn't enough time to round the bases - but, btw, she never asked me to sleep with her. I was being respectful - and played no games, as she asked. Her child is important to her, and I respected both. She appears to have done what she asked me not to do. I mean a couple weeks by phone, a couple nights out - that's pretty quick judgement, no?

Maybe Im missing something here. Did she invite you into her bed, on the condition that you dont try anything out of 'respect' for her and her child? If thats the case, forget it youre wasting your time.