Won my second Deity game, here's tips.

[Realyn]

Listen, whats wrong for people is this:

You reload on a small map until you get a good start, can build stonehenge and steamroll two ai´s with horseman.
Thats good for you. If you have fun doing it, allright, nobody will say a word. But please, dont open a thread thats like "hey guys, im in the big league now and well, I´m simply awesome.

Sorry but looking over your text again and seeing stuff like "If someome beats you to it, restart" pisses me off even more . Just accept that most people play civ 5 in a normal way. They choose their difficulty, load a map, get a cup off coffee and play like its a one person chess game.

 

[xcaine]

Damn, so much hate here. I just posted this because I looked for something similar and it wasn't there.

My style game will be a lot of fun for someone who likes a fast paced game with quick, exciting battles, always on the edge of survival and with thrill of getting to superior tech first while surviving AI's overwhelming assaults. Probably not chess players.

Nobody said anything about steamrolling with horsemen. That doesn't work on small-quick-deity unless you get docile opponents. I usually seem to get Russia, Rome, Germany and Japan for my neighbors, none of them very friendly.


I also started this discussion to get other people's opinions on strategy and tactics on quick games so maybe one day, we can come up with a fool-proof strategy that will work on any starting location and without Stonehenge.

Instead all I'm getting is "you suck, go play huge and marathon".
Why not contribute something meaningful instead?

 

[alysenne]

Wow, what is with all the hate?

All he said was that he beat diety and offered some tips. What's wrong with that? With a game this new, any information is good information. Also, some people might just want to beat Diety for the achievement.

Obviously, everyone has a different definition of 'cheating'. IMO, exploiting the stupid military AI as recommended by some people is nearly as bad as using a cheat program.

I personally play at lower difficulties because it feels more natural. I don't have to do specific 'tricks' to win. I intentionally try to avoid exploiting the AI, although that's not always possible.

Everyone plays the way they want to play and have fun. Sheesh.

 

[King Jason]

Obviously, everyone has a different definition of 'cheating'. IMO, exploiting the stupid military AI as recommended by some people is nearly as bad as using a cheat program.

I agree, so if you could share how you're not exploiting the stupid military A.I. ~ I'd greatly appreciate it.

There isn't any way not to. I have 5 units, my opponent has dozens upon dozens. I get attacked. Either a.) I defend, which exploits their stupidity since I decimate their force of 30 with my force of 5... or I say "Cheerio, good sir... here's the 3 cities you should be able to take easily."

Tips on helping the A.I. out without blatantly handing over my empire would be greatly appreciated.

The reverse is true for being on the offensive. It's a tactical game. not exploiting the A.I. is like the equivalent of letting the enemy take your queen and 1 of each of the other special units in chess... Because if you play normally (you know... by thinking) You'll destroy the A.I.

So other than just allowing myself to lose units for no reason, I don't see how one can't exploit the stupidity of the military a.i.

Frankly, I already give them a big enough hand by not rushing them and allowing them to reach a decent size before I even think about engaging them militarily.

 

[Infiltrator]

It's just that some people have adopted imaginary rules that dictate how the game "should be played". God forbid someone broke the golden rule where they sell a luxury to the AI.

Letting him pile up and die in front of you like a moron? A-ok!

 

[Godclone]

I don't have to do specific 'tricks' to win.

Strategic use of terrain in warfare is not a "trick" . Also, people are free to play as they want, each with what he/she enjoys ; there is nothing wrong with that .

The problem was that he posted restart/reloading as valid strategy . If you need those to play the game, the resulting gameplay is not a strategy, IT is the result of x restarts/reloads until the AI developed around your gameplay .

Here is a simple analogy , i can give you the best strategy at chess to beat any chess world champion . The strategy is that the opponent can only make the moves i allow him, because if he doesn't i abandon and restart the game until he does . After x attempts the results are in , i won . YAY i'm awesome and i am as or better than the worlds best players . OH wait ...

Why am i even debating this, it is clear "you" will never understand .

 

[Buccaneer]

I'm sorry, I don't see what the tips were in the OP that I could use that would not be cheating. Perhaps a change in the title? Nothing wrong with a post on winning on Deity but I hope people will read it closely for what it is.

 

[Cincinnatus C.]

Strategic use of terrain in warfare is not a "trick" . Also, people are free to play as they want, each with what he/she enjoys ; there is nothing wrong with that .

The problem was that he posted restart/reloading as valid strategy . If you need those to play the game, the resulting gameplay is not a strategy, IT is the result of x restarts/reloads until the AI developed around your gameplay .

Here is a simple analogy , i can give you the best strategy at chess to beat any chess world champion . The strategy is that the opponent can only make the moves i allow him, because if he doesn't i abandon and restart the game until he does . After x attempts the results are in , i won . YAY i'm awesome and i am as or better than the worlds best players . OH wait ...

Why am i even debating this, it is clear "you" will never understand .

How difficult is it to just mentally equate "I restart until X and Y happen, then pursue strategy Z" to "If X and Y happen, I pursue strategy Z"? Is there any point in getting indignant about someone's method of playing instead of actually evaluating the strategy on its own merits?

In chess, it's not possible to use the Sicillian defense if your opponent does not play e4. Does that make the Sicillian defense worthless? I don't think so. Should one forfeit after the opponent plays something other than e4? No, probably not, but that has no bearing on the utility of the strategy itself.

This topic was created to provide one possible strategy, more or less, to win on deity - the elitism, arrogance, "YAY i'm awesome and i am as or better than the worlds best players"-esque sentiment came only when people started eviscerating the original poster on the basis that reloading is not "legitimate."

 

[Slowpoke]

Yeah people need to calm down. I say anything that goes in this forums Gauntlets or game of the months is not cheating.

Restarting from scratch is fine. The alternative is playing only marathon games so you can move your settler more than one or two spots, and marathon games are just too long to be enjoyable, especially with the game as screwed up as it is right now.

 

[Gartheras]

First let me just point out that Chess and Civilization are really not comparable since chess doesn't involve luck. Luck is and always has been huge part of civs and reason why mp won't be serious/competive. Starting position can have huge impact on difficulty of the game, although it does give the game depth towards adapting into your surroundings.

If you are experimenting around some strategy that involves getting specific wonder as core component of your plan you may find that your starting position to make it almost certainly impossible to get that wonder you can eather restart or adjust your plan to something else. Though it would be interesting to know what kind of starting position you actually need to have reasonable chance of getting specific wonder, since more or less going for wonder on higher difficulty levels is huge gamble. With deity and high number of opponents is there even reasonable chance with any starting location?

There seems to be some silly hate towards restarting/reloading game on these forums, can understand hate towards reloading since that is pretty cheesy, but really cant see problem on restarting afterall AI propably doesnt mind. Believe or not there is difference between sp and mp part of the game. Hardcore mode that would disable completely manual saving and instead all you get is single automatic save that is updated after every turn/significant event, would solve reloading issue pretty nicely.

Apparently only legimate way to "play" deity is play civ5 like mediocre rpg, go all out on building troops and go camp them around AIs cities to farm "some" xp, since afterall there is nothing cheesy with having catapults that have range of 3, can attack twice per turn, ignore small obstacles like mountains and get +60-75% against targets in open and rough terrain. Doing anything else and you are cheating noob who is simply pathetic and god forbid what happens if you make the mistake of posting about your experiences on forums and include "won" and "deity" in the topic. Not everything scales with game speed atm, xp gain being one of them, wonder why some people prefer playing on slower game speeds.

p.s. really love how this thread starting from first reply completely went into offtopic

 

[Pandabearparade]

Godclone is trolling, ignore him. Someone with such a poor ability to communicate isn't likely to possess the intelligence to beat a deity game at all, even with constant reloads.

Regarding the first post, I don't really think that the strategy would suit me. Reloading a map a few times to get one that isn't pathetic doesn't really count as cheating, but reloading until you get a wonder does strike me as.. well, if not cheating, perhaps more game manipulation than I'm comfortable with.

 

[aimlessgun]

Restarting until you get a wonder isn't cheating. But every restart is a loss, so it should be noted as a caveat of his tips: "you will lose X% of the time from not getting this wonder".

If that percentage is more than a few %, it's probably a bad strategy. That's what the discussion should be about, not some strange and absurd notion of "cheating".

 

[Dan Quale]

I played 1 diety game continents/marathon used alexander and consider it somewhat of an easy win.
Phase 1 land destruction, build, sell resources buy kill kill kill. Took out the first opponent with 3 warriors and 2 phalanx at around 3000 bc. 3 more down by 1700 BC. I used some companions, but honestly the strat would have worked with any civ.

Phase 2 build shiny infastructure and wonders for thousands of years, befriending city states along the way while rushing navigation and saving massive amounts of gold.

Phase 3 rush buy 7 frigates.

Phase 4 find the super advanced swarmed packed continent and stutter in amazement at the hundreds of units on every square and 10ish sail boats floating around.

Phase 5 make deals for everyones gold all at once then sink all the fail boats at once.

Phase 6 bombard 90% of the hundreds of units into oblivion.

Phase 7 accept like 20 cities and everything else they have in payment for peace once i get bored watching the massacre and accept the -100ish happiness hit.

Phase 8 move in the old ground troops into strategicly placed locations on my new colonies.

Phase 9 upgrade all the old troops to rifles, rush buy swarms of artillery, click on all the capitals in the same turn.

Phase 10 watch the painfully unsatisfacting victory message pop up then walk away in frustration.

 

[Thunderbull]

They choose their difficulty, load a map, get a cup off coffee and play like its
a one person chess game.

nice words. I even smeel the aroma!

Guys there is no Senate here.
I'm playing only parathon/huge - because it is fun for me.
It's known that 1/3 of rpg fun is char generation, so same for me and civ start.
can believe in start in tundra? Y, we know about such countries as Iceland or Finland (hug, no offence). They are the world rulers!
What fun in start spamming of unit to conquer nearest cities if i know that AI _MUST_BE_ patched or hame will suck to selfdeath (tbh i dunno what fun in civ of spamming units at all )?
Everyone playing like he likes and this is gr8. not gr8 when someone starting to blame other person about his way of fun or a-wee-some- nessesness.

Yesterday i stopped game when GL was two turns left (i'm Ramesses only, i'm noob) and someone built it. I also hit my keyboard (thanks Logitech your boards are foolproof ). Xcaine explaining his way of playing. I really think it's funny to win deity. And he's not reloading _WHILE_ playing. Only beginning. We are all doing the same things, just with another hue.

p.s. true chineese palyer must not drink coffee, but may drink pu-ehr.
Same for vodka with Catherina. I prefer to watch at stone pyramid when Ramessessing another 'loading' picture between my beloved rest-arts

 

[Txurce]

"Restarting until you get a wonder isn't cheating. But every restart is a loss, so it should be noted as a caveat of his tips: "you will lose X% of the time from not getting this wonder.

If that percentage is more than a few %, it's probably a bad strategy. That's what the discussion should be about, not some strange and absurd notion of "cheating".

This nails it on the head, and the OP stated it in the open. He is simply choosing to call it quits early when pursuing a certain strategy. If you want to track his batting average, go right ahead. But why should he have to play every game he starts until the bitter end if he doesn't want to? And if you don't think that, then you are deciding where the "fairness" line is drawn.

Where I disagree with aimless gun is what percentage makes it a bad strategy. In Deity if he wins 10% of the time on standard settings, the strategy is certainly viable (even if there may be more successful ones out there). And it may work better than he thinks, even on worse starts.

 

[Cyberian]

dbpost

 

[Cyberian]

Phase 10 watch the painfully unsatisfacting victory message pop up then walk away in frustration.

I can understand your frustration. Playing a larger map on this difficulty is more like hard work combined with exploiting AI weaknesses and not fun. I only won a Deity Duel Quick so far.

But as I am now playing a Immortal Pangea Standard game and having to hammer down all these countless Riflemen with Artillery after centuries of warrior/horseman warfare it really seems too painful to start a Deity Standard Size game.


@OP I also don't like a strategy that involves reloading when a wonder can't be finished. Also building settlers and warriors and NO WONDERS (even Stonehenge) is usually better for the early game. Just conquer the Stonehenge city. Btw in my current game Stonehenge is built on turn 25 (quick speed) by AI. Trying to counter that if possible would massively hinder your early development.

 

[xcaine]

Finally some nice folks stopped by.

I tried playing games without Stonehenge and it's so much harder. Early game is so focused on plain survival that getting 8 culture/turn elsewhere seems impossible. The other alternative is to build 4 cities with monuments but that will also increase your social policies costs accordingly and will take a while. I'd also rather build papermakers/markets in my new cities.

In a 200-250 turn game, Stonehenge will give you 1600-2000 culture, helping to unlock MANY socials, or save them up until Patronage if you go that route. Building it takes 10-14 early turns with a hammer-strong tile. That's a great investment. First Settler can usually be bought from city state gifts / barbarian camps.

That said, to please all the haters, I'll purposefully avoid Stonehenge the next time and develop ways around it.

I'm starting to agree that stealing a worker from city states with no real repercussions is an exploit and needs to be fixed. Looking forward to a future diplo patch.

 

[Buccaneer]

There is nothing with building Stonehenge early, just do it strategically instead of by cheating. Sometimes it requires different priorities and decisions to beat the AI at a wonder.

 

[xcaine]

There's no real strategy with something that happens at turn 25-30. It's a tech sprint to Pottery and Calendar and hoping you've got enough hammers to finish before AI.

The other option is training a worker first, researching Mining right after Calendar and have the worker chop 2-3 forests. This will get you Stonehenge on or before turn 25 on quick. But it means no exploration other than with the initial warrior and maybe one scout, which means fewer ruins and city state gifts. But it works. I'd still prefer that to not having Stonehenge.