Wonder Elimination Thread

[knighterrant81]

New voting system -3 +1

Alhambra 18
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 8
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 20
Great Library 18
Hanging Gardens 34
Hubble 19(-3) (corrected from posts while I was posting, I think - someone double check)
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 29
Neuschwanstein Castle 14
Notre Dame 28
Oracle 32
Petra 30 (+1)
Porcelain Tower 26
Sistine Chapel 15
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 1

Again, Hubble looks great on paper, but if you have the hammers to spare for it, you've basically already won (its worth almost two SS parts in hammers alone). Just get robotics, buy some SS factories, and build your ship. Maybe I'm missing something here, but every G+K science victory I've done so far I don't really miss it at the point you can get it.

Petra combined with the desert faith pantheon is amazing. It has completely changed how I look at a patch of desert - I'm almost sad now when I see a big fat river with flood plains running through my deserts!

 

[kuukeri]

Alhambra 15 (-3)
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 8
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 20
Great Library 18
Hanging Gardens 34
Hubble 19
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28
Machu Picchu 29
Neuschwanstein Castle 14
Notre Dame 28
Oracle 32
Petra 31 (+1)
Porcelain Tower 26
Sistine Chapel 15
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 1

Petra is quite situational, but with desert folklore and with some nice hills the city that build it just comes so sexy

Alhambra Ai seems to love it and i havent ever been able to build it.

 

[PhilBowles]

Again, Hubble looks great on paper, but if you have the hammers to spare for it, you've basically already won (its worth almost two SS parts in hammers alone). Just get robotics, buy some SS factories, and build your ship. Maybe I'm missing something here, but every G+K science victory I've done so far I don't really miss it at the point you can get it.

When you get Satellites you can't build two spaceship parts, so it's not competing with them. You can usually build it fast enough for the effect to kick in when you start getting ship parts to build - in one game I was able to build it in 9 turns, though it usually takes longer.

Petra combined with the desert faith pantheon is amazing. It has completely changed how I look at a patch of desert - I'm almost sad now when I see a big fat river with flood plains running through my deserts!

Why? Petra boosts them as well.

 

[knighterrant81]

Why? Petra boosts them as well.

Wonder: Hidden City of Petra
Tech Requirement: Currency
Cost: 250
Cultural Output: 1
Great Person Points: 1 Engineer Point
Effects: City must be built on or next to Desert. +1 Food, +1 Production, +1 Gold for all Desert tiles worked by this city (except Flood Plains). +6 Culture once Archaeology is discovered. Provides a free Amphitheater in the city in which it is built.

Source: http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ5_expansion.html.

Might be out of date, I can't really pop up the civilopedia right now.

 

[Koiranputki]

Petra is quite situational, but with desert folklore and with some nice hills the city that build it just comes so sexy

Alhambra Ai seems to love it and i havent ever been able to build it.

I find that Petra usually coincides fairly closely with getting a Great Engineer.... and I no longer think twice about popping the engineer to make sure I get Petra.... [Aside: Though some times you feel you're caught in some kind of a "least worse decision" scenario.... If the Hanging Gardens somehow, which I think must be rare, is still available, the decision would be really tough...choosing Petra first over HG would probably be the death knell for the HG]

If I dawdle with Petra, though, I find there is a fairly high probablility one of the others will get it built first, though maybe not quite so certain as with the HG....

 

[Lord Kid]

Alhambra 15
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 8
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 20
Great Library 18
Hanging Gardens 34
Hubble 19
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 28 +1
Machu Picchu 29
Neuschwanstein Castle 14 -2
Notre Dame 28
Oracle 32
Petra 31
Porcelain Tower 26
Sistine Chapel 15
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 1

Neuschwanstein Castle is so situational I almost never build it. It's one of those "nice to have" things but can really be done without. The Louvre on the other hand pops 2 GA's which I always use to get a nice long Golden Age, especially useful in the late game when you can really use that boost.

 

[Gucumatz]

Its a new voting system Lord Kid

(-3) (+1)

Corrections

Alhambra 15
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 8
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 20
Great Library 18
Hanging Gardens 34
Hubble 19
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 29
Machu Picchu 29
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 28
Oracle 32
Petra 31
Porcelain Tower 26
Sistine Chapel 15
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 1

 

[Lord Kid]

Guess I should have read a little better, lol! Thanks!

 

[CivDecimation]

asdfj editting

Alhambra 15
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 8
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 20
Great Library 18
Hanging Gardens 34
Hubble 19
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26
Louvre 29
Machu Picchu 29
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 29
Oracle 32
Petra 31
Porcelain Tower 26
Sistine Chapel 15
Statue of Liberty 28
Stonehenge 0

 

[Petiscator]

N. Castle should be at 12. See my vote (last page's post) and compare to the first one of this post. I voted it to 15, and suddenly it's 14. Then, a guy downvoted it, turning it to 11 while it should be 12.

 

[PlasticSoldier]

Corrected

Alhambra 15
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 8
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 20
Great Library 18
Hanging Gardens 34
Hubble 19
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Louvre 29
Machu Picchu 29
Neuschwanstein Castle 12
Notre Dame 29
Oracle 32
Petra 31
Porcelain Tower 26
Sistine Chapel 15
Statue of Liberty 28

 

[PhilBowles]

Wonder: Hidden City of Petra
Tech Requirement: Currency
Cost: 250
Cultural Output: 1
Great Person Points: 1 Engineer Point
Effects: City must be built on or next to Desert. +1 Food, +1 Production, +1 Gold for all Desert tiles worked by this city (except Flood Plains). +6 Culture once Archaeology is discovered. Provides a free Amphitheater in the city in which it is built.

Source: http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ5_expansion.html.

Might be out of date, I can't really pop up the civilopedia right now.

Oops, you're right - strange I hadn't noticed since I invariably build Petra when I have a worthwhile spot (though haven't for a couple of games, and had no flood plains in the game before that).

The Wonder's never been called "Hidden City of" Petra though - that seemed to be in the early rumours and I've no idea why, since I'm not aware that it's a common name for the site.

 

[DeathFace]

Alhambra 15
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 8
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 20
Great Library 18
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 19
Leaning Tower of Pisa 28
Louvre 29
Machu Picchu 29
Neuschwanstein Castle 12
Notre Dame 29
Oracle 32
Petra 31
Porcelain Tower 26
Sistine Chapel 15
Statue of Liberty 28

The Leaning Towers free GP is great.

The HG is the only wonder left that I rarely build. I much prefer growing my cities the basic ways, NOT through an early wonder.

 

[Buccaneer]

Are we allowed to vote again? That seems to be stacking the deck for or against a wonder. It seems that my least favorite wonders are the ones that:
1) give a Great Prophet;
2) give bonuses to sea tiles;
3) make tile buying cheaper;
4) have anything to do with espionage;
5) only gives GPP bonuses; or
5) doesn't do anything (e.g., terracotta).

Can someone help me out here? I have not memorized each of the wonder's benefits but does any of the remaining wonders fall into any of the above criteria?

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

i thought you were asking how often you can vote. no, the remaining ones dont exclusively fall into your criteria. check the civilopedia for what each does specifically.

 

[PhilBowles]

Can someone help me out here? I have not memorized each of the wonder's benefits but does any of the remaining wonders fall into any of the above criteria?

Leaning Tower of Pisa gives 25% bonus to Great Person generation. That's the only remaining one in these categories (unless you disallow all Wonders because they all produce at least one GPP - with, for some reason, the exception of Statue of Zeus, which wasn't in this list to begin with). It can also give you a Great Prophet if you really want it to...

As for "anything to do with espionage", this is only bad because only one Wonder has anything to do with espionage (Great Firewall), and it isn't very good.

 

[Tachii]

Alhambra 15
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 8
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 20
Great Library 18
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 19
Leaning Tower of Pisa 28
Louvre 29
Machu Picchu 29
Neuschwanstein Castle 12
Notre Dame 29
Oracle 32
Petra 31
Porcelain Tower 27 (+1)
Sistine Chapel 12 (-3)
Statue of Liberty 28

Sistine Chapel only necessary for culture victories. Any other victory it often resorts down to tall AI civs snatching up all the culture wonders. In a science/domination/diplomacy game there are often something better to build than this during this period. Military units for domination. Leaning tower of Pisa for science/diplomacy to rush Porcelain Tower or something.

Speaking of which, Porcelain Tower is almost a must for any victory, even a domination one if one manage to have 1-2 RAs. 50% is pretty huge and stacked with Rationalism it's even better. Not to mention the free GS is a rare sight, too.

 

[knighterrant81]

Speaking of which, Porcelain Tower is almost a must for any victory, even a domination one if one manage to have 1-2 RAs. 50% is pretty huge and stacked with Rationalism it's even better. Not to mention the free GS is a rare sight, too.

I feel like Pisa (the new Haiga Sophia) and PT are much weaker now than they were because of their positioning. PT is not nearly as powerful now because it comes so much later and so does the 50% RA bonus from Rationalism. Vanilla HS was strong because it came at a great time where you could pick up ND, PT, or maybe the Forbidden Palace, which was pretty huge, but now its not really in a great place. You can sit on an Engineer until you get a wonder you like but that sort of defeats the purpose of an instant popping great person.

Pisa and PT are all about timing, and the timing just isn't as good (overpowered) as it was in Vanilla. They used to be required. Now they're just decent.

 

[Tachii]

You have a good point there. It's timing is probably not as great as before but I noticed in my culture game Pisa and PT still had great synergy. I'd build the Pisa first, and by that point, my RAs would be finishing in time for Pisa to pop a GE to make the PT in my 3rd/4th city to utilize the 33% culture policy.

And another thing is, you don't really have to generate a GE with Pisa. If say, 3 of my CS buddies want a great artist, I'd generate that instead. I don't want to wait for Louvre to pull that off or slot artists when I'm not going for a culture game.

Of course, PT is still kind of situational and coming in late certainly doesn't do it any favours. It probably won't win this thing but at least some of the other higher ones has to go first, imo.

 

[Avatan]

Alhambra 15
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 8
Chichen Itza 25
Eiffel Tower 20 - 3 = 17
Great Library 18
Hanging Gardens 31
Hubble 19
Leaning Tower of Pisa 28 + 1 = 29
Louvre 29
Machu Picchu 29
Neuschwanstein Castle 12
Notre Dame 29
Oracle 32
Petra 31
Porcelain Tower 27
Sistine Chapel 12
Statue of Liberty 28

Downvote the Eiffel tower even though it's quite decent, because it only reach its full potential on small cultural empires, which don't really need te happy faces.

Upvote for leaning tower, for the dual wonder effect.