Wonder Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by MantaRevan, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. njmfff

    njmfff Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    452
    Alhambra- 22
    Big Ben- 21
    Borobudur- 21
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 23
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 12
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 17
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 23
    Himeji Castle- 20
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Kremlin- 5
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 24
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 21
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 19
    Sistine Chapel- 24 This is just a great wonder, great culture boost.
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Statue of Zeus - 8
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Taj Mahal- 4 It's just a golden age
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi - 20


    Brandenburg Gate - it's one I'll always look to snatch if planing on warmongering. This + other XP buildings makes your unit incredibly powerful right from the start (bombers with air repair and few shoots from logistics) :lol:

    Statue of Zeus - requires Honor which and comes too early in the game to be really useful. Extra damage to cities won't really matter when your units deal small damage, and it's bonus damage is easily replaced with few extra units that cost less hammers and less time to build.

    other honorable mentions are Kremlin and Taj Mahal. Golden Age and Social Policy are easily gained, so it's not that impressive and if you're playing Order, you probably already have a chance to crank up dozens of tanks anyway.
     
  2. householder

    householder Lord of the Fleas

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    320
    Alhambra- 22
    Big Ben- 21
    Borobudur- 21
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 23
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 12
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 17
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 23
    Himeji Castle- 20
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Kremlin- 5
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 24
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 22 It is situational, but if you can find a batch of desert hills, especially with fresh water access, this is a production powerhouse
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 19
    Sistine Chapel- 24
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Statue of Zeus - 8
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Taj Mahal- 1 It's just a golden age and 4 happiness. Neither is worth the cost.
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi - 20
     
  3. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Maryland
    Oh, hmm. Forgot about that aspect of the wonder. Well, it's too late to change my vote, oh well.
     
  4. sendos

    sendos Immortal

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,455
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Alhambra- 22
    Big Ben- 21
    Borobudur- 21
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 23
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 12
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 17
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 23
    Himeji Castle- 20
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Kremlin- 5
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 25 A very nice wonder. I always choose GE's though, so you can snatch another wonder in the process.
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 22
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 19
    Sistine Chapel- 24
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Statue of Zeus - 5 Weak and restricted by honor, which is also considered a relatively weak social policy. This wonder doesn't even offer GP points. A good buff would increase combat bonus against cities by 25% rather than a measly 15%. That would be worthwhile for warmongering.
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Taj Mahal- 1
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi - 20
     
  5. jlim201

    jlim201 King

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    Alhambra- 22
    Big Ben- 21
    Borobudur- 21
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 23
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 12
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 17
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24- Good for growing huge cities.
    Himeji Castle- 17- I rarely need defensive buildings or wonders.
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Kremlin- 5
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 25
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 22
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 19
    Sistine Chapel- 24
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Statue of Zeus - 5
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Taj Mahal- 1
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi - 20
     
  6. DeathwatchBob

    DeathwatchBob Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    61
    Alhambra- 22
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur- 21
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 23
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 12
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 17
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle- 17
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Kremlin- 5
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 25
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 22
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 19
    Sistine Chapel- 24
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Statue of Zeus - 2
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Taj Mahal- 1
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi - 20

    Big Ben is awesome when combined with commerce and Order/Autocracy discounts.

    If you want to warmonger and have the Statue of Zeus bonus, just take it off the fool who built it instead of units.
     
  7. Sake

    Sake Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    145
    Alhambra- 22
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur- 21
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 23
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 12
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 17
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle- 17
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Kremlin- 5
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 25
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 23 - Makes desert hills so tasty :drool:
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 19
    Sistine Chapel- 24
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Statue of Zeus - 2
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Taj Mahal- 0 - Just single golden age and 4 happiness. It's useful, but not worth building, unless you are Brazil or Persia. Golden ages are also weaker in BNW because there's no gold on river tiles. There's so many more important wonders in Renaissance, and if you grabbed architecture early for a wonder, you probably did it for either uffizi or porcelain tower, not this.
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi - 20
     
  8. ense7en

    ense7en n7

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Messages:
    995
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Alhambra- 22
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur- 21
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 23
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 9
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 17
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle- 17
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Kremlin- 5
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 25
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame- 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 24
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 19
    Sistine Chapel- 24
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Statue of Zeus- 2
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi- 20

    Really, Taj Mahal gone while so many far worse wonders remain?
    Petra is obviously situational, but it's just ridiculously amazing when you have the right terrain for it.

    Great Firewall is still here? Does anyone ever build it?
     
  9. civ54lyfe

    civ54lyfe Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Messages:
    563
    well how the hell is the Great Wall (not firewall) still here and not at least on its way out? must be the 2 Engineer slots :dunno:
     
  10. cpm4001

    cpm4001 Goggleman

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,016
    Location:
    Not here
    Alhambra- 22
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur- 21 - 3 = 18 - Not super useful, even if you're going full-on religion spam. I think you're better off building other stuff.
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 23 + 1 = 24 - It was a great wonder before, it's still a great wonder now.
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 9
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 17
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle- 17
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Kremlin- 5
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 25
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame- 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 24
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 19
    Sistine Chapel- 24
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Statue of Zeus- 2
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi- 20
     
  11. ense7en

    ense7en n7

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Messages:
    995
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Great Wall is very useful! Think bigger than SP. In MP it's huge!
    Even in SP it makes attacking AI very annoying and sometimes forces you to wait to attack till much later.

    Not sure why in the world it's being voted down.
     
  12. civ54lyfe

    civ54lyfe Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Messages:
    563
    i'd agree with you if true AI threats to capitol were not a thing of the past (at least any semi-consistent threat). in general i took it that these polls don't take MP into consideration, but i'd agree with GW's MP utility. generally when i'm able to build GW there are a **whole** lotta other things that needs building that take precedence way over it.
     
  13. VicRatlhead5199

    VicRatlhead5199 King

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    966
    Location:
    Michigan
    Alhambra- 23 I wish this wonder wasn't so competitive. I love it every time I manage to get it. Unfortunately that's not very often.
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur-18
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 24
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 9
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 17
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle- 17
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Kremlin- 2 The free SoPol is nice but the production bonus for armored units is almost completely wasted for three reasons. I'll usually only build a handful of armored units, they're just a small part of my army. An order civ is usually producing so many hammers it only takes a couple turns to build a unit in your troop production cities, sometimes only one. I usually have a few cavalry to upgrade so I rarely would even use the bonus. It should have been a bonus for constructing air units. Now that would have been useful.
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 25
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame- 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 24
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 19
    Sistine Chapel- 24
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Statue of Zeus- 2
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi- 20
     
  14. Jernfrau

    Jernfrau Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Norfolk
    Alhambra- 23
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur-18
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 24
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 9
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 17
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle- 17
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Kremlin- 2
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 25
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame- 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 24
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 20 - two workers and 1 turn roads, yes please.
    Sistine Chapel- 24
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Statue of Zeus- 0 - I'll kill you off, Honour is the worst policy tree, and this adds very little.
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi- 20
     
  15. brevno12

    brevno12 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Alhambra- 23
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur-18
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 24
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 9
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 17
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle- 17
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Kremlin-0 Never needed its ua
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 25
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame- 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 26 1food and production per desert , makes desert hills imba, 1 trade route , 1 trade caravan , 1 culture, 6 culture after archeology . Nuff said.
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 20
    Sistine Chapel- 24
    Statue Of Liberty- 23

    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi- 20
     
  16. NoOneImportant

    NoOneImportant Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Messages:
    193
    Alhambra- 23
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur-18
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 24
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 9
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 14 It's not really attractive, if you really care about converting other civs to your religion you should generate enough faith to get a lot of Missionaries and Prophets and the other Theology wonders are better anyway.
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle- 17
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 26 - Moar Great People and possibility to choose any great person you'd like are great and GE can even turn it into an essentially free wonder.
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame- 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 25 - Upvotes are +1, not +2 - fixed.
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 20
    Sistine Chapel- 24
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi- 20
     
  17. jlim201

    jlim201 King

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    Alhambra- 23
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur-18
    Brandenburg Gate-20
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 24
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 9
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 14
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle- 14- Similar to the Red Fort. Defensive.
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 26 -
    Louvre- 20
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame- 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 25 -
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 20
    Sistine Chapel- 25- Early culture was nerfed bad, and this is the first wonder that actually starts your high culture game.
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Temple of Artemis - 21
    Uffizi- 20
     
  18. Shimmler

    Shimmler Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Kiev, Ukraine
    Alhambra- 23
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur-18
    Brandenburg Gate-17 - Great General doesn't worth that of investment, as well as UA that is the same as of barracks.
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 24
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 9
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 14
    Great Wall- 14
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle -14
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 26 -
    Louvre- 21 - How come noone voted for this? Absolute must have when going cultural with Aesthetics.
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame- 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 25 -
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 20
    Sistine Chapel- 25
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Stonehenge- 21
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Temple of Artemis - 21
     
  19. Sake

    Sake Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    145
    Alhambra- 23
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur-18
    Brandenburg Gate-17 -
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 24
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 9
    Great Library- 24
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 14
    Great Wall- 11 - Wonder that goes obsolete at some point doesn't really sound that good.
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle -14
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 26 -
    Louvre- 21 -
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame- 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 25 -
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 20
    Sistine Chapel- 25
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Stonehenge- 22 - 5 faith doesn't sound like a lot, but that early it will give you faith lead, and if you choose faith pantheon and/or piety too, it will guarantee a religion.
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Temple of Artemis - 21
     
  20. Quineloe

    Quineloe Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    458
    Alhambra- 23
    Big Ben- 22
    Borobudur-18
    Brandenburg Gate-17 -
    Broadway- 21
    Chichen Itza- 23
    Colossus- 22
    Eiffel Tower- 24
    Forbidden Palace- 26
    Globe Theater- 20
    Great Firewall- 9
    Great Library- 25
    Great Lighthouse- 14
    Great Mosque of D'jenne- 14
    Great Wall- 11
    Hagia Sophia- 20
    Hanging Gardens- 24
    Himeji Castle -14
    Hubble Space Telescope- 23
    Leaning Tower of Pisa- 26 -
    Louvre- 21 -
    Machu Picchu- 21
    Mausoleum of Halicarnassus- 22
    Neuschwanstein- 22
    Notre Dame- 17
    Oracle- 24
    Petra- 22
    Porcelain Tower- 21
    Prora- 21
    Pyramids- 20
    Sistine Chapel- 25
    Statue Of Liberty- 23
    Stonehenge- 22
    Sydney Opera House- 18
    Temple of Artemis - 21

    I really try to avoid petra now that I've moved up to higher difficulties. The Civs I play usually don't have a desert start, so I end up building this wonder in a second city, which always is a nailbiter due to very low production in your second city in the early game. If anyone with a desert start also goes for Petra, he'll beat you to it, which leaves you with a terrible desert city.

    Great Library is fairly easy to get if you beeline to it and will help you tremendously catching up on the tech race.

    On lower difficulties I'd actually downvote GL and upvote Petra because you shouldn't need the tech boost from GL and Petra is a guaranteed production powerhouse.

    I'm a bit surprised people don't like BB Gate and claim it's like a barracks? It stacks with a barracks, and if you have Military Academy + Alhambra + BB Gate in the same city, doesn't every unit that city spawn have enough experience to start with Drill 3 and March?
     

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