Wonders of the Ancient World Scenario

[wcbarney]

I didn't see a thread for strategies for winning this scenario -- even though I did a pretty thorough search of the forum -- so thought I would start the WOTAW strategy thread.

I downloaded the Wonders and Korean DLCs as soon as they were available on Steam; haven't played Korea yet, but have played Wonders several times. Starting out on Emperor, I easily won the scenario as Egypt (top of the list) by building almost all the wonders -- except the two that had to built on water. Not having a clue what I was doing, or really what I was supposed to do, it took me about 1/2 the game to realize that the map was the Mediterranean Ocean (i.e., "Inland Sea.") Even though I had built a couple of auxiliary cities close to luxury resources, I had not even thought ahead far enough to build a city on the seashore.

Having thus earned two achievements (winning as Egypt and winning on Emperor), I then won an easy game on Prince as Sumeria -- two more achievemnts. Next I attempted a King win as Persia -- not so easy; took two tries and earned me two more achievements. Then I tried and lost an Immortal game as Greece, and then again as the Hittites.

On about my third game I finally figured out the "secret code" for unlocking the various wonders:

The Oracle: No prerequesites -- can start building on the first turn.
The Pyramids: 600
Mausoleum of Halicarnassus: 1500
Temple of Artemis: 1500 income (gifts, etc. don't count)
The Colossus: 3000 income (same not as above)
The Hanging Gardens: 15 Techs
The Great Library: 20 Techs
Statue of Zeus: 150 Military Experience Points
The Great Lighthouse: 300 Military XP

So, anyway, any strategy hints? I have always built The Oracle right after building a monument & a couple of scouts -- but was beat out a couple of times. I usually choose the Tradition tree starter for the 3 , and once I chose the Liberty starter next & then Citizenship (for the free worker) & even Collective Rule (for the settler). In my last 2-3 games I skipped Liberty altogether and went Honor c5culture: for every barbarian killed) and Warrior Code (free General). So, now I just roam around with my archers & General & hunt barbs. Still got beat out on the Pyramids last game, and I hadn't even accumulated enough to have it unlocked yet!

 

[snoochems]

Played it once as Egypt on the "historical" map. Twas quite a boring game, as Egypt isn't close to anyone else.

I skipped The Oracle. Egypt has 0 production tiles on the "historical" map location. I had to found a city with some actual production before I could start building wonders. I think I ended up with 6 wonders out of the 9. You get so many points for the wonders, that if you get 5/9 you should have 100% of winning.

I'm not sure about the Military wonders though. From memory, I had a fair way to go ~190/300 and I took an enemy capital, and it jumped to over 300.

I made the mistake of trying to study civil service, and was wondering why it was taking soooo longggg. So yeah, focus on the other techs first.

Having said that, GS are pretty OP now. I got one, and popped Steel for Longswords, and went on a rampage, as no one else was able to get close to the finishing Steel with normal research. GE's are OP too, as wonders are so much more important now.

Anyways, not an exciting game, and probably wont bother again.

 

[wcbarney]

Played it once as Egypt on the "historical" map. Twas quite a boring game, as Egypt isn't close to anyone else.

I skipped The Oracle. Egypt has 0 production tiles on the "historical" map location. I had to found a city with some actual production before I could start building wonders. I think I ended up with 6 wonders out of the 9. You get so many points for the wonders, that if you get 5/9 you should have 100% of winning.

I'm not sure about the Military wonders though. From memory, I had a fair way to go ~190/300 and I took an enemy capital, and it jumped to over 300.

I made the mistake of trying to study civil service, and was wondering why it was taking soooo longggg. So yeah, focus on the other techs first.

Having said that, GS are pretty OP now. I got one, and popped Steel for Longswords, and went on a rampage, as no one else was able to get close to the finishing Steel with normal research. GE's are OP too, as wonders are so much more important now.

Anyways, not an exciting game, and probably wont bother again.

Thanks for the reponse. Am I to assume that hardly anyone has played the Wonders scenario, and those who have don't like it??

I managed to get an Immortal win, quite handily, as the Hittites. Right at the get-go (turn 3 I think it was) I discovered El Dorado & got 500g, which I promptly spent on a settler. Unlike most wonders in most games, this El Dorado was situated close to a river with many flood plain tiles & a couple of minable hills. So I settled nearby, never did grow the city past about 4 or so, but got the 6 from the wonder for the rest of the game. I skipped The Oracle this time -- it normally takes about 40 turns even in a fair production city. Rather, I built a couple of scouts & a couple of archers (having discovered Archery at a goodie hut). After that it seems I was building wonders one after another (again, luckily, my first city was on the coast, and -- oh yeah -- had marble!). Greece & Egypt DW on me, one after another, so my military XP built up in a hurry, because they felt compelled to throw archers and such at my pretty well defended cities. They both sued for peace several times, but I just laughed and said "no."

 

[Vo01985]

I only played on the Historical map on Emperor, I built only 2 wonders, and conquered the rest... I BARELY won, since Greece built 6, and they are hard to invade. But longswords definitely did the trick for me.

 

[wcbarney]

I only played on the Historical map on Emperor, I built only 2 wonders, and conquered the rest... I BARELY won, since Greece built 6, and they are hard to invade. But longswords definitely did the trick for me.

I just got totally waxed trying for a Diety win as Egypt. Right at the get-go it was announced that just about every other civ had entered the Classical Era, which was about 20 techs away from me (i.e., about 350 turns on a good day). I didn't get killed but didn't get anywhere either. My barb-hunting strategy went to the dogs, because someone always came along on the barb camp I was guarding & killed the remaining warrior (costing me 6) and then destroyed the camp (costing me 25 if I had desired to wipe out the stupid camp).

This is me (with the spear):

 

[Vo01985]

Yeah I was losing wonders even on Emperor, not sure how you are supposed to win Deity... I assume by conquering.

 

[Bob_]

I played it twice, first with the Sumerians on king, then as Hittities on Emperer, both historical map. With the sumerians I won a domination victory like 50 turns before the game was over. Conquered the Oracle only, tho. Was pretty shocked by the starting position of Sumer, since there is barely any production. Secondly, with the Hittities, it was quite thrilling. Got 4 of the wonders (2 times lost the wonder race by only 3-4 turns), Alex had 3, Ramses 2.

Ramses had built the Hanging gardens in his capital, which I thought might be a nice addition to my empire. So I attacked and the campagn was quite bloody for both of us. One single turn before I took his capital, he finished the great library there and thereby finished the game . Nevermind, better him than Alex, who might acually have won by the great library.

All in all quite fun - not overwheming, but cool for playing it one or 2 times.

 

[Greatsword]

I managed a close win on immortal. Random Map with Gilgamesh, couldn't resist the free GS UA and got another "free" GS from the liberty finisher. The AI split the wonders between each other (max 2 each), so there was no score-runnaway. I build two wonders myself and conquered some nearby cities to boost my score. Key wonder imho is the Hanging Gardens, allowing the capital to work as many production tiles as possible.

It's beyond me how anybody could manage a deity win. Also I don't think it's possible to win on the historical map on higher difficulties. You start in low production spots and most of the time without luxuries in your proximity (random seed each game).

What I don't like is the combination of slow SP, slow tech and "no city razing". You have suger/marsh, whale/pearls, elephants, anything-other-than-gold/silver luxuries? You're waiting for a very long time before you are able to do anything. This could be fixed by giving the civs some initial starting techs to speed up the first 50 turns. Conquering isn't much fun either with late military tech, slow happiness SP and city razing disabled.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Played as the Sumerians. It was quite tricky. Social Policies are almost essential. No one had spare luxuries and Marketplaces are so far out of reach that getting happiness and gold was like pulling teeth. Also, get Honor right away - those barbs (on the historic map) are a nightmare. I think I got more culture from them than from monuments and ziggarats.

Quite a fun, different experience. I really like how the wonders are unlocked. I might try it again with a different Civ. Persia for a military conquest might be interesting (build Statue of Zeus, conquer the rest).

 

[Julmas]

I played the scenario for the first time yesterday. Inland seas, and hitties on deity. I played a builder game that I felt was somewhat optimal, and all wonders were built before I could unlock them. Except, ironically, the military wonders where I got the latter one (Great Lighthouse) from barb farming XP. I think it is impossible to win a peaceful deity game.

Tonight, I will try the historical map. The idea is to hit a culture hut, take the tradition opener and then go honor for 50% extra xp. Once I get any interesting units (heavy chariots?) I will try to take out the nearest neighbour. If I get both military based wonders and the neighbour has built a wonder, maybe it is enough for a win, depending on how the other wonders are distributed.

There is not much time between the arrival of powerful units and the game over screen. Even taking one capital will be hard. An allied military city state close by would help. I haven't explored the map yet, so I don't know if such a city state exists.

 

[Gwenwyn]

Won on Immortal - historical map as Persia.

IMO a main factor in the win was settling on a hill with other hill/forest/good production tiles nearby so as soon as a wonder was unlocked, my production, together with some forest chopping was high enough to beat the AI to it. My second city was settled to the north to grab the natural wonder (mountain that gives culture when worked - can't remember the name), and the the 3rd and final city was even further north, to get a costal hill for decent production towards the colossus / great lighthouse.

The reason for choosing Persia was the starting position, as being between the Hittites and the Sumerians, if either of them obtained any wonders, they'd be reasonably easy to reach with my army... Greece is a little too isolated and all the flat, production-poor terrain around Egypt didn't appeal to me.

Edit: Didn't settle in place - moved for 2 turns (I think) to find my hill.

 

[wcbarney]

Tried & failed once more at a Diety win, this time as Greece on the Historical map. The starting position was actually pretty good -- coastal, hills, a few farmable tiles, two cottons, + gold. I build a scout or two, then a granery, then a worker -- by which time I had the Mining tech & was halfway done with Calendar.

Found almost no goodie huts, & my scouts got picked off by barb archers only about 10 hexes from home, so they were a waste.

Took the Tradition opener, and ran the left side of the Honor tree. Managed to sell my duplicate luxury & eventually bought a library. Once I had about 4 archers & 2 hoplites, I declared on the nearest CS. Racked up XP pretty quickly, but still missed out on the Statue of Zeus, and only managed to build the 2nd military XP wonder. Made peace with my CS neighbor & would have gone after the nearest civ with wonders to capture, but saw the "head in the sand" screen before that happened.

Is this scenario winable on Diety??

 

[Waywocket]

Managed emperor okay because I found the fountain of youth within a few turns, plus I was playing as Sumer with their madly overpowered UA so I conquered everyone no problem.

Tried immortal as the Hittites: I have never been so badly owned in this game. By the time I unlocked my first wonder, Greece had already built 5. I was so far behind in tech, social policies, economy, and military might that it's just embarassing. Spawning in desert probably didn't help, plus the Hittite UU dies the moment an enemy unit so much as *looks* at it.

No exaggeration, this scenario is harder on *prince* than the Korea scenario on *deity*.

 

[wcbarney]

... No exaggeration, this scenario is harder on *prince* than the Korea scenario on *deity*.

Funny you should say that. I managed to win the Wonders scenario on every level but diety, but have tried & failed twice to even come close to winning the Korea scenario.

Tried as Manchuria on Emperor, managed to capture one of the Korean cities at about turn 40, but was then DW on by "friendly" Japan and lost that city. Rode over (took about ten turns at *one* tile.at.a.time 'cause of the terrain) and took a peek at Beijing -- surrounded by about five cannons, nine longswords & a half-dozen knights, and just said "to hell with it," and quit in shame.

Tried Manchuria again on King, figuring -- well, hey! -- maybe I've got to get to Beijing early, before they've had a chance to build up their army? Managed to finally capture one of their cities "on the road to Beijing," held it less than one turn. Again, gave up in disgust.

Now I'll try to find the Korea Scenario thread & see if anyone has posted any worthwhile advice there.

 

[MadDjinn]

This one is ... slower than I like.

I have managed to hit the 15 tech mark and open the science side with Gilgamesh, just to find out the AI will finish it in a few turns. It's really hard to get that many techs on Deity before the AI finishes the wonder.

Deity is rough on this one. A least it is on the historical map. Using a random map gives you too much (including skilldorado) so I don't think it's a fair use of the scenario for win tally.

For the historical map, there are a large number of ruins in the desert. A number of barb camps as well. If you RNG it well enough, you may end up with a few extra culture or techs.

 

[wcbarney]

... Deity is rough on this one. A least it is on the historical map. Using a random map gives you too much (including skilldorado) so I don't think it's a fair use of the scenario for win tally...

I thought there were only two map choices: inland sea or historical. You're saying you can select random map??

Yeah, what you said: I did pull off a very lucky immortal win because I discovered El Dorado on about the 3rd turn & bought a settler with the 500g. And Waywocket posted that he got an emperor win mainly 'cause he discovered the Fountain of Youth. So you're saying that we shouldn't be allowed to discover these wonderful OP natural wonders in this scenario 'cause it's too much like cheating??

 

[Ravellion]

Up to Immortal: I think the historical map is best played by the persians or hittites. The rest will be too production poor - this may be an advantage; playing as either of them and basically having only one real opponent.

Beyond immortal? I don't know, I am not a Deity player in the slightest, and this is one scenario where you cannot easily cook the settings/luck out to really even out the massive advantages the AIs have.

On the more random "inland sea" map, what I found was that several of the UAs are not that good. Egypts UA is nullified on higher levels by the AIs native advantages. Even focussing on culture, the AI gets to start building the Pyramids first. With tech slowed and the medieval and up policies all but out of reach, I doubt whether the Greek UA is all that good either. Golden ages are also rather short for what feels like an Epic/Marathon speed game, so I don't know about the persians either. Sumer is good: Nice speed next to rivers really helps, and the free scientist is amazing. I am wondering whether to settle it or pop philosophy with it though...

Overall, a nice scenario, and well worth the price of half of the Korea/Wonders combo. Definitely got more fun out of it than some of the films I've seen in the cinema this year.

 

[MadDjinn]

I thought there were only two map choices: inland sea or historical. You're saying you can select random map??

Yeah, what you said: I did pull off a very lucky immortal win because I discovered El Dorado on about the 3rd turn & bought a settler with the 500g. And Waywocket posted that he got an emperor win mainly 'cause he discovered the Fountain of Youth. So you're saying that we shouldn't be allowed to discover these wonderful OP natural wonders in this scenario 'cause it's too much like cheating??

yeah, popping Skilldorado in this scenario makes it a bit 'cheezy'.

of course, by 'random' I meant the inland sea map The historical one is a lot tougher, due to the poor terrain.

 

[evahaut]

The historical maps differ slightly depending on the level you play, with only few available hills on deity. Gilgamesh is an easy win up to immortal, although the capital is located in a flat-as-pancake area. The trick is to settle your second city a bit up north, just below Darius and between the river and the numerous hill tiles to the East (this doesn't work well on deity since Darius will beat you to the spot + a lot less hills being available).

With such a city I skipped the early wonders and concentrated on building Hanging Gardens first. After which I easily built 4 wonders in this city.. I finished the game with 6 built wonders and 2 conquered.

I like the fact you are forced to wage war to unlock the water wonders.

 

[Waywocket]

Anyone managed deity yet?

I have to say I still haven't succeeded on immortal. Last game I think I was in with a chance - admittedly the winner had nearly twice my score, but I was second and I think if the runaway had been closer to me so I didn't first have to take Persia I might have pulled it off.

One tactic that's just occurred to me is to stop ignoring the seafaring techs, build some triremes and get embarkation, and take any coastal cities that the leader has, in order to prevent him building the water wonders. That might delay the game enough to win. Thoughts?