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Wooden leaders vs Alive leaders

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by nzcamel, Sep 16, 2016.

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Realism vs Expressiveness

Poll closed Oct 16, 2016.
  1. I prefer realistic looking leaders no matter how wooden they come across as.

    6.2%
  2. I would like more expressive leaders, but accuracy in their look is more important.

    9.9%
  3. I don't mind either way.

    21.1%
  4. I would like more realistic leaders, but expressive personality coming through is more important.

    16.1%
  5. I prefer expressive leaders no matter how much of a caricature or cartoon they are.

    30.4%
  6. I think leaders should be both realistic in appearance, and have an expressive personality.

    14.3%
  7. Other.

    1.9%
  1. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    There has been plenty of discussion around the style of art used in the game, and many prefer the more true to life visualization of leaders used in V over VI's more caricature/cartoon style. I can sympathise, as I initially preferred Civ III's more realistic take on leaders over CIV's cartoony interpretation of them.

    What I'd like to know however; is why it's the visual look that counts for so much and not their animated implementation. As much as I like him, Keanu Reeves could act most of the CiV leaders with their wooden limited movements! Their personalities seem mostly flat and they don't move much no matter what is going down.

    After I played IV for a while I found the much more animated and alive leaders were far more engaging than their more realistic counterparts from III. I can already see the same engaging alive expressiveness in the new Civ VI leaders which I think is infinitely better than wooden portrayals no matter how realistic they look.

    Anytime I have discussed this on here or youtube, the consensus still seems to be very 'meh' towards the new leaders even if the initial hate is fading. Is there anyone else who like me loves the new leaders just due to the personality shining through?
     
  2. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    It was discussed before and even with the poll. Overall people here like Civ6 leaders more, but some of them look a bit too much.
     
  3. stiiknafuulia

    stiiknafuulia King

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    Their personality (i.e. animations) will be disabled as a first order of business. So... I guess I don't mind either way. I just wish there will be a way to disable the animations completely, in order not to take up any loading time when their diplo screen opens. And God forbid, please get rid of the bs where I have to renew every trade deal every 30 turns! I sware, I spent more time doing that than any other action in Civ V, enough to last me a lifetime (of 6,000 years ;)).
     
  4. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Most people don't seem to get into anything beyond the 'look' however.
     
  5. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    It's good idea to be able to break those deals without consequences after 30 turns, but without breaking the deal should stay.
     
  6. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Each to their own lol.
    Play marathon, then you don't have to renew them as often ;)
     
  7. Craig_Sutter

    Craig_Sutter Deity

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    Most of all, I would prefer leaders that are more easily moddable. The graphics ought to be simplified in such a way that modders can readily make or alter leaders to the needs of the particular civilization they are building. It is my understanding that Civ IV was more easily moddable due to the 3D graphics being accessible... Civ V fell short in this, and hence, only about 3 or 4 3D leaders have been added... a pittance compared to Civ IV.

    So I would sacrifice detail and expressiveness for moddability... woodenness be damned.
     
  8. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Well... I'm glad to see that -so far- more of us do value the expression of personality exhibited by leaders in Civ, over ultra realistic depictions.
    I think that I'll respond with a greater range of emotions in dealing with this bunch than the leaders in V; which helps make the game more immersive in my experience :)
     
  9. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    I like a cartoonish rendering but I'm not a fan of the 'App Store' trend for big cartoony mouths with exaggerated shouty expressions. Roosevelt reminds me too much of those Clash of IAPs adverts I switch off. I'd like leader models that bear a strong physical resemblance to their real life counterparts whilst having a low-spec friendly, almost Nintendo-like skin. Cartoonish animation is fine as long as they don't do that ruddy awful Lordosis posture that Western studios got into a while back:

    Spoiler :
     
  10. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    The original take on Roosevelt, or the newer one?
     
  11. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    From the 2 Let's Plays I watched (came out about a month ago), I'm happy enough with the leaders. Some are better than others of course. What I saw wasn't too cartoon-y. Civ4 had a more cartoonish look, and no one disses that game as a bad game.

    My biggest wish is for the graphics not to slow the game down considerably. I know the diplomacy screen is separate, but it is possible these graphics could still slow down turn times. What I seen so far, the turn times seem too long (I know they may be running debugging scripts). That was a huge flaw of Civ5, and made it hard to finish games in Civ5.
     
  12. Civciv5

    Civciv5 Grand Emperor

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    I would be ok with the Civ6 leaders if the backgrounds weren't so horrible.

    So I voted for I think leaders should be both realistic in appearance, and have an expressive personality.
     
  13. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    I believe the people complaining about the looks are a very vocal minority.

    I haven't had a problem with any of the leaders, actually.

    Teddy was slightly chubbier than I would've made him, but not chubbier than I would've accepted. Now that they removed his jowls, it actually looks like his jaw moves wrong.

    Qin was perfect, imo. Don't like the changes, though they're still fine I guess.

    Gandhi looks fine. He could use slightly more meat on him, but he doesn't need it.

    Montezuma is thematic, if completely inaccurate. The crazy old man vibe suits him well, though I wish he had a proper headdress instead of leaves everywhere.

    Mvemba has an interesting mix of African and European styles on him. Though it makes no historical sense (he would probably wear completely one or the other), it does explain that he's trying to merge the 2 worlds. Its a good design choice.

    Pericles makes no sense with the unwearable helmet on his head, especially if they're going with the old politician look. I'm glad there's an elderly leader in the game, though.

    Barbarossa's armor is fine.
     
  14. E_T

    E_T Chieftain

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    Voted Banana (i am guessing that is the other option) because it ain't real and just takes up my time loading anyways...

    and don't get me started about the way they talk...
     
  15. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    No, Civ 4 was great :)
    Hopefully the background being minimalist helps speed wise.

    I think the scenes in V are lovely, but I probably like the minimalist approach in VI even more. If they need to sacrifice to help with speed (as Disgustipated is concerned about) then better the background than the leaders in my opinion.

    Yeah, I like the variety. Even with the caricature I'm glad they slimmed Teddy down as he was probably one of the fittest POTUS's ever! Philip II is my favorite to watch so far with his manly mans bluster reminding me of a few people in real life lol.

    E_T! Mate :D
    I have noticed banana in a couple of the 'We Play Civ' polls. What does it mean? I'm quite fond of banana's myself :)
     
  16. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    I don't see why accurately portrayed leaders need to be wooden. Pericles was accurately portrayed in Civ IV, and was not wooden at all. The same was true for many of the civ leaders. Some exaggeration and style is fine, and I think some of Civ VI's leaders are animated quite nicely.

    The shame of it is the animation style and art style is hardly consistent. Barbarossa has a more realistic face, whereas Pedro is straight out of an Aardman animation and looks nothing like a real human being. Teddy Roosevelt is portrayed relatively close to his real appearance in real life (after the fat was removed), whereas Pericles is nowhere near close to his real life counterpart.
     
  17. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    Oh, thank goodness they've sorted him out :)
     
  18. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    I expect the banana was added in for scale. 🍌
     
  19. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Leaders should be easy to distinguish at a glance. Other than that I don't care, and focusing on the leaderheads beyond what's needed to make them easily distinguishable is a waste of resources.
     

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